The Mandate for Mission is over

[Murray J]

You are not addressing my question. Samaritans are half Jews so I can agree with you.

What about Americans, Chinese, Malays, Indians? Are the non Jews among these also children of Jacob?

Hi Guojing. I can't find your original question now. It's a pity it doesn't appear in the same thread. A descendant of Jacob is someone who is genetically from Jacob. I don't know if Malays are children of Jacob. Probably not but I can't say for sure. If they did a DNA test they could find out if they wanted to.
The Samaritan woman said, "Jews do not talk to Samaritans." I don't believe she thought she was at all a Jew. I don't know why you say she was a half Jew.

 

[Murray J]

This has yet to be fulfilled. Ezekiel 37 suggests that it won't be until the millennial rule of Christ.

Jesus gathered these together in Himself as He redeemed those from both Houses.

 

[Murray J]

Ok. Is that the same for Nathaniel in John 1:51? "Truly, truly, I say to you, Hereafter you shall see Heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."

Or Math 26:29 where Jesus tells His apostles: "I will not henceforth drink of the fruit of the vine until..."

The implication appears to be in all the 14 texts where the phrase is used to be 'from now until the thing happens.'
John 13:19 From now (henceforth) I tell you before it comes, so that when it happens you may believe that I am.
John 14:7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. And from now on (henceforth) you know Him and have seen Him.
Math 23:39 For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on (henceforth) until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."
Math 26:64 Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time (henceforth) you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens."

So Caiaphas would sometime from when Jesus said it until it happened, see Jesus in the flesh in the clouds while he was still alive. Which means Jesus had to have come back at that time.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ok. Is that the same for Nathaniel in John 1:51? "Truly, truly, I say to you, Hereafter you shall see Heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."

Or Math 26:29 where Jesus tells His apostles: "I will not henceforth drink of the fruit of the vine until..."

The implication appears to be in all the 14 texts where the phrase is used to be 'from now until the thing happens.'
John 13:19 From now (henceforth) I tell you before it comes, so that when it happens you may believe that I am.
John 14:7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. And from now on (henceforth) you know Him and have seen Him.
Math 23:39 For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on (henceforth) until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."
Math 26:64 Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time (henceforth) you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens."

Using the context of the narrative and the Greek meaning of the words should clarify the meanings.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Jesus gathered these together in Himself as He redeemed those from both Houses.

Ezekiel 37 reveals that the whole house of Judah will be saved, and reconciled to the whole house of Israel (thus "All Israel will be saved"). At this time few Jews are called and the only reconciliation is within the church.

 

[Murray J]

Ezekiel 37 reveals that the whole house of Judah will be saved, and reconciled to the whole house of Israel (thus "All Israel will be saved"). At this time few Jews are called and the only reconciliation is within the church.

All Israel means all 12 tribes of the descendants would be numbered among them, not just one or some of the tribes. Not everyone in those tribes would be saved because Jesus said the road to life is narrow and few find it.

 

[Guojing]

Hi Guojing. I can't find your original question now. It's a pity it doesn't appear in the same thread. A descendant of Jacob is someone who is genetically from Jacob. I don't know if Malays are children of Jacob. Probably not but I can't say for sure. If they did a DNA test they could find out if they wanted to.
The Samaritan woman said, "Jews do not talk to Samaritans." I don't believe she thought she was at all a Jew. I don't know why you say she was a half Jew.

during that period, Samaritans were offspring of Jews who inter marry with gentiles.

that is why Jews don’t associate with them

so back to the original point, the great commission does not apply to Gentiles. Is that what you are arguing for?

 

[Murray J]

during that period, Samaritans were offspring of Jews who inter marry with gentiles.

that is why Jews don’t associate with them

so back to the original point, the great commission does not apply to Gentiles. Is that what you are arguing for?

I have read that Samaritans practised Samaritism since the time of Joshua's death. They have always opposed Judaism. So I can't see how they could have ever been Jews.

The great commission applied to Jews (who practised Judaism) and some Gentiles. Only those Gentiles who were descendants of Jacob. Remember that Gentiles means Nations/Peoples. Wherever descendants of Jacob were living among these nations - that's who the commission was for.

 

[Guojing]

I have read that Samaritans practised Samaritism since the time of Joshua's death. They have always opposed Judaism. So I can't see how they could have ever been Jews.

The great commission applied to Jews (who practised Judaism) and some Gentiles. Only those Gentiles who were descendants of Jacob. Remember that Gentiles means Nations/Peoples. Wherever descendants of Jacob were living among these nations - that's who the commission was for.

U mean even now? What do you think of Romans 9 to 11 then? Has God set Israel aside already?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

All Israel means all 12 tribes of the descendants would be numbered among them, not just one or some of the tribes. Not everyone in those tribes would be saved because Jesus said the road to life is narrow and few find it.

Indeed, few have found it during the church age as only those called by God are saved now. However most will be saved during the millennial rule of Christ and the second resurrection.

 

[Murray J]

U mean even now? What do you think of Romans 9 to 11 then? Has God set Israel aside already?

No, I don't mean now. I'm only talking about during the years when the apostles were living. Romans 9-11 is all true. What's your question there?

 

[Murray J]

Indeed, few have found it during the church age as only those called by God are saved now. However most will be saved during the millennial rule of Christ and the second resurrection.

Do you have a New Testament text for that I can look at?

 

[Guojing]

No, I don't mean now. I'm only talking about during the years when the apostles were living. Romans 9-11 is all true. What's your question there?

My question to you is "Do you think the Great Commission still valid for Christians, who are formerly Gentiles, to share with other Gentiles?"

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Do you have a New Testament text for that I can look at?

1 Peter 4:17
17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

Revelation 20:5-6
5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

 

[Murray J]

My question to you is "Do you think the Great Commission still valid for Christians, who are formerly Gentiles, to share with other Gentiles?"

I don't know the answer to that question. The Bible doesn't tell me. I used to believe it did. I was an evangelist for many years.

 

[Murray J]

1 Peter 4:17
17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

Revelation 20:5-6
5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Where is the 'most shall be saved'?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Where is the 'most shall be saved'?

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

 

[Murray J]

Jesus instructed His disciples to go to all nations and preach the gospel and then the end would come. They did go to all the nations and so the end could come (in their lifetime.)

In Acts 2:5 Peter preached to "devout men from every nation under heaven." Luke lists the nations this included (vv9-11.) As a result 3000 were converted. (And days later in Acts 4:4 another 5000.) So with 8000 people from every nation heading back to all the nations, could all have heard the gospel in the next 40 years? Absolutely at that rate!

We notice that 'all nations' didn't include a lot of places we call nations today. This shows that when Jesus spoke about going to all the world and all nations, he wasn't speaking about those nations. He was speaking about nations where the Children of Jacob lived. Acts 2:5 confirms this.

Several times Paul and others speak about the nations (ethnos) and gospel in terms such as "the whole city heard," and some Jews said, "they have turned the world upside down." This was not the Planet Earth world. This was the world of the Children of Jacob.

Paul defines who the Gentiles/Nations are in Rom 9:24-26. In contrast to the Jewish Israelites, Paul is discussing non-Jewish Israelites and quotes Hosea. Hosea tells us that former Israelites became 'No People of Yahweh Elohim' but that the Messiah would bring them back into the fold of Children of Israel so they would again become His People. The middle wall of partition broken down (Eph 2:14) and the two re-united. Jesus reunited and made a new covenant with the House of Israel (former non-Jewish Israelites) and the House of Judah (Jewish Israelites) Heb 8:8.

These non-Jewish Israelite Nations (from the former House of Israel in northern Israel at the time of the Assyrians) were who Paul went off to evangelise. Paul was confident he could "fully" reach "all the nations" and "all hear" (2 Tim 4:17)

Since Jesus added that he would be back before the apostles "had gone through all the cities of Israel" (Math 10:23) because they were instructed to only "go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel"(Math 10:6). So we can see that all the nations were reached in their lifetime.

And since this was so, there was no further commission to go anywhere else because His disciples (and Paul) had completed what they had been instructed to do. So there is no longer (and hasn't been since the above was completed) a biblical mandate for mission.

(Background: For almost 40 years I was a conservative pastor/preacher/evangelist/missionary until 10 years ago when I decided to test everything I believed about scripture with scripture itself. Above are my unexpected conclusions. I still believe the whole Bible to be the inspired Word of Yahweh Elohim.)

I am going to be leaving this website shortly. It was nice for the short time I was here. Someone has taken offence to something I have said. I never aim to offend anyone so I'm very sorry that has happened. Therefore, so it doesn't happen again, I will delete my account (once I find out how to do that.)

I have appreciated those of you who have engaged in biblical matters with me. My constant desire is only to know the truth. For those who were asking, yes I have sinned since accepting Jesus as Saviour and so I do not count myself as part of the Living holy church, for John says in 1 John 3 that a believer cannot sin and if he does he does not know Jesus. I accept that. I do not believe that 1 John 1 applies to me because that was my state before trusting Jesus. I cannot ask forgiveness again because he died once for sins. (Hebrews tells me that.)

As I have no other grounds for life, I continue to honour Yahweh Elohim and the teachings of his son Jesus. I endeavour to do what is right, knowing it does not count towards salvation or toward anything in Yahweh's eyes. I happily accept whatever happens to me at the end of this life. In the meantime, I enjoy the life he has given me and am thankful every day for it.

Shalom.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I am going to be leaving this website shortly. It was nice for the short time I was here. Someone has taken offence to something I have said. I never aim to offend anyone so I'm very sorry that has happened. Therefore, so it doesn't happen again, I will delete my account (once I find out how to do that.)

I have appreciated those of you who have engaged in biblical matters with me. My constant desire is only to know the truth. For those who were asking, yes I have sinned since accepting Jesus as Saviour and so I do not count myself as part of the Living holy church, for John says in 1 John 3 that a believer cannot sin and if he does he does not know Jesus. I accept that. I do not believe that 1 John 1 applies to me because that was my state before trusting Jesus. I cannot ask forgiveness again because he died once for sins. (Hebrews tells me that.)

As I have no other grounds for life, I continue to honour Yahweh Elohim and the teachings of his son Jesus. I endeavour to do what is right, knowing it does not count towards salvation or toward anything in Yahweh's eyes. I happily accept whatever happens to me at the end of this life. In the meantime, I enjoy the life he has given me and am thankful every day for it.

Shalom.

There is no requirement of sinless perfection.

The Meaning of 1 John 3:9 - Faith Baptist Bible College

^^ good read when you have time.

 

[Guojing]

I don't know the answer to that question. The Bible doesn't tell me. I used to believe it did. I was an evangelist for many years.

The Bible did tell us if you are willing to read it literally. Peter only addressed the Jews during early Acts and only went to Cornelius "under protest", after Stephen was stoned.