The Mandate for Mission is over

[Murray J]

Jesus instructed His disciples to go to all nations and preach the gospel and then the end would come. They did go to all the nations and so the end could come (in their lifetime.)

In Acts 2:5 Peter preached to "devout men from every nation under heaven." Luke lists the nations this included (vv9-11.) As a result 3000 were converted. (And days later in Acts 4:4 another 5000.) So with 8000 people from every nation heading back to all the nations, could all have heard the gospel in the next 40 years? Absolutely at that rate!

We notice that 'all nations' didn't include a lot of places we call nations today. This shows that when Jesus spoke about going to all the world and all nations, he wasn't speaking about those nations. He was speaking about nations where the Children of Jacob lived. Acts 2:5 confirms this.

Several times Paul and others speak about the nations (ethnos) and gospel in terms such as "the whole city heard," and some Jews said, "they have turned the world upside down." This was not the Planet Earth world. This was the world of the Children of Jacob.

Paul defines who the Gentiles/Nations are in Rom 9:24-26. In contrast to the Jewish Israelites, Paul is discussing non-Jewish Israelites and quotes Hosea. Hosea tells us that former Israelites became 'No People of Yahweh Elohim' but that the Messiah would bring them back into the fold of Children of Israel so they would again become His People. The middle wall of partition broken down (Eph 2:14) and the two re-united. Jesus reunited and made a new covenant with the House of Israel (former non-Jewish Israelites) and the House of Judah (Jewish Israelites) Heb 8:8.

These non-Jewish Israelite Nations (from the former House of Israel in northern Israel at the time of the Assyrians) were who Paul went off to evangelise. Paul was confident he could "fully" reach "all the nations" and "all hear" (2 Tim 4:17)

Since Jesus added that he would be back before the apostles "had gone through all the cities of Israel" (Math 10:23) because they were instructed to only "go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel"(Math 10:6). So we can see that all the nations were reached in their lifetime.

And since this was so, there was no further commission to go anywhere else because His disciples (and Paul) had completed what they had been instructed to do. So there is no longer (and hasn't been since the above was completed) a biblical mandate for mission.

(Background: For almost 40 years I was a conservative pastor/preacher/evangelist/missionary until 10 years ago when I decided to test everything I believed about scripture with scripture itself. Above are my unexpected conclusions. I still believe the whole Bible to be the inspired Word of Yahweh Elohim.)

 

[Guojing]

Jesus instructed His disciples to go to all nations and preach the gospel and then the end would come. They did go to all the nations and so the end could come (in their lifetime.)

In Acts 2:5 Peter preached to "devout men from every nation under heaven." Luke lists the nations this included (vv9-11.) As a result 3000 were converted. (And days later in Acts 4:4 another 5000.) So with 8000 people from every nation heading back to all the nations, could all have heard the gospel in the next 40 years? Absolutely at that rate!

We notice that 'all nations' didn't include a lot of places we call nations today. This shows that when Jesus spoke about going to all the world and all nations, he wasn't speaking about those nations. He was speaking about nations where the Children of Jacob lived. Acts 2:5 confirms this.

Several times Paul and others speak about the nations (ethnos) and gospel in terms such as "the whole city heard," and some Jews said, "they have turned the world upside down." This was not the Planet Earth world. This was the world of the Children of Jacob.

Paul defines who the Gentiles/Nations are in Rom 9:24-26. In contrast to the Jewish Israelites, Paul is discussing non-Jewish Israelites and quotes Hosea. Hosea tells us that former Israelites became 'No People of Yahweh Elohim' but that the Messiah would bring them back into the fold of Children of Israel so they would again become His People. The middle wall of partition broken down (Eph 2:14) and the two re-united. Jesus reunited and made a new covenant with the House of Israel (former non-Jewish Israelites) and the House of Judah (Jewish Israelites) Heb 8:8.

These non-Jewish Israelite Nations (from the former House of Israel in northern Israel at the time of the Assyrians) were who Paul went off to evangelise. Paul was confident he could "fully" reach "all the nations" and "all hear" (2 Tim 4:17)

Since Jesus added that he would be back before the apostles "had gone through all the cities of Israel" (Math 10:23) because they were instructed to only "go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel"(Math 10:6). So we can see that all the nations were reached in their lifetime.

And since this was so, there was no further commission to go anywhere else because His disciples (and Paul) had completed what they had been instructed to do. So there is no longer (and hasn't been since the above was completed) a biblical mandate for mission.

(Background: For almost 40 years I was a conservative pastor/preacher/evangelist/missionary until 10 years ago when I decided to test everything I believed about scripture with scripture itself. Above are my unexpected conclusions. I still believe the whole Bible to be the inspired Word of Yahweh Elohim.)

Your view of the Great Commission is that it was only for Jews to preach to Jews? You are a mid Acts dispensationalist?

 

[Murray J]

Your view of the Great Commission is that it was only for Jews to preach to Jews? You are a mid Acts dispensationalist?

I have never heard of a mid Acts dispensationalist. I only read and discover what I do from scripture.

Jews (Judaists) were only part of the total People of Israel. They belonged to the House of Judah. The other part was the House of Israel which apostatised in Hosea's day during the time of the Assyrians (Hosea 1 and 2.) Yahweh Elohim cut them off and said they were Not My People - but He also said they would be gathered back in one day with the Messiah and be His People again. Jesus did that.

So the apostles and Paul (who were mostly if not all Judaists) were sent out by Jesus to reach both Houses - Jewish Israelites (House of Judah) and Non-Jewish Israelites (former House of Israel.)

(It's a pity the English translation of Judaists is Jews because you miss the connection with Judah.)

So the Judaists (Jews) went out to preach to all the children of Jacob, not just Jews.

 

[JIMINZ]

So the Judaists (Jews) went out to preach to all the children of Jacob, not just Jews.

Is it then your contention, those 10 tribes are considered to be Gentiles?

Gal. 2:7,8
7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8) (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)

Eph 2:13,14
13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

 

[Murray J]

Yes. Paul states this from Hosea. The unbelieving among the northern House of Israel (who were the other 10 tribes) fell away. There were some who didn't who remained and continued faithful.

Jesus' ministry was to draw them all back to be one People.

 

[JIMINZ]

Yes. Paul states this from Hosea. The unbelieving among the northern House of Israel (who were the other 10 tribes) fell away. There were some who didn't who remained and continued faithful.

Jesus' ministry was to draw them all back to be one People.

Where then does the Gentile fit into the picture, are those apostate Jews now Gentiles?

 

[Guojing]

I have never heard of a mid Acts dispensationalist. I only read and discover what I do from scripture.

Jews (Judaists) were only part of the total People of Israel. They belonged to the House of Judah. The other part was the House of Israel which apostatised in Hosea's day during the time of the Assyrians (Hosea 1 and 2.) Yahweh Elohim cut them off and said they were Not My People - but He also said they would be gathered back in one day with the Messiah and be His People again. Jesus did that.

So the apostles and Paul (who were mostly if not all Judaists) were sent out by Jesus to reach both Houses - Jewish Israelites (House of Judah) and Non-Jewish Israelites (former House of Israel.)

(It's a pity the English translation of Judaists is Jews because you miss the connection with Judah.)

So the Judaists (Jews) went out to preach to all the children of Jacob, not just Jews.

So the point is still, you believe the Great Commission was only meant for Jews to preach to "all the children of Jacob", meaning Gentiles were originally excluded?

 

[Sketcher]

It's over when Jesus says it's over, and he hasn't said it's over.

 

[JIMINZ]

Jesus' ministry was to draw them all back to be one People.

You are absolutely correct.
Mat. 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat. 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

BUT, that was not the great commission.

Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

The Great Commission encompasses the Gentiles also not just the Jews.

What your saying sounds good up to a point, but somewhere along the way the understanding of what your saying got mixed up (tangled) with the actual reality of it all.

 

[JIMINZ]

Yes. Paul states this from Hosea. The unbelieving among the northern House of Israel (who were the other 10 tribes) fell away. There were some who didn't who remained and continued faithful.

Jesus' ministry was to draw them all back to be one People.

Where does Paul say this?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

BUT, that was not the great commission.

Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

The Great Commission encompasses the Gentiles also not just the Jews.

That particular commission was completed by the disciples. Read the rest of the chapter.

The greater commission was clearly to preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, many if not most of whom had already migrated into Europe and Britain, far beyond the reach of the other commission.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Where does Paul say this?

Romans 9:25

 

[JIMINZ]

That particular commission was completed by the disciples. Read the rest of the chapter

Jesus is clearly speaking to those who we call the Apostles at this time.

Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Next we see "THEY" went forth, the natural assumption would therefore be, the Eleven, which were previously spoken of in Verse 14

Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

I do not see the Disciples as anyone other than the Eleven.

 

[Murray J]

Where does Paul say this?

Rom 9:24 whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also of the nations (ethnos)?
Rom 9:25 As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved."
Rom 9:26 And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."

Hos 1:9 And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.
Hos 1:10 Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.
Hos 1:11 Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head,

 

[Murray J]

Jesus is clearly speaking to those who we call the Apostles at this time.

Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Next we see "THEY" went forth, the natural assumption would therefore be, the Eleven, which were previously spoken of in Verse 14

Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

I do not see the Disciples as anyone other than the Eleven.

That is correct. Those were the 11 apostles.

 

[Murray J]

So the point is still, you believe the Great Commission was only meant for Jews to preach to "all the children of Jacob", meaning Gentiles were originally excluded?

I don't understand your phrase 'meaning Gentiles were originally excluded." Can you please elaborate?

 

[JIMINZ]

That is correct. Those were the 11 apostles.

So where does the belief come from that the Great Commission was only for the Jews but not the Gentiles also?

 

[Murray J]

That particular commission was completed by the disciples. Read the rest of the chapter.

The greater commission was clearly to preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, many if not most of whom had already migrated into Europe and Britain, far beyond the reach of the other commission.

I agree.

It's over when Jesus says it's over, and he hasn't said it's over.

Jesus told Caiaphas the High Priest that he would see Jesus in the clouds. So that had to have happened before Caiaphas died. Therefore it's over.

 

[Murray J]

So where does the belief come from that the Great Commission was only for the Jews but not the Gentiles also?

I haven't said that. The Great Commission was not only for the Jews. There are 3 groups of people in our understanding but the Bible only speaks about two of these. There are: 1) Jews (strictly Judaists) formerly from the House of Judah, children of Jacob. 2) Gentile Israelites (who were not Jews but were children of Jacob), 3) Gentile non-Israelites.
I believe the whole Bible addresses the first 2 groups - those who were the children of Jacob. And it was Jesus' mission to reunite these 2 groups back into the one united House of Israel. The Samaritan woman at the well is in the 2nd group. She was not a Jew but she was a descendant of Jacob - so she was a Gentile Israelite.

 

[Murray J]

Where then does the Gentile fit into the picture, are those apostate Jews now Gentiles?

The word translated Gentiles is ethnos, probably better translated Nations or Peoples. Do you mean the apostate Jew now or back then? Back in Jesus' generation, the apostate Jew (and apostate non-Jewish Israelite) who did not receive Christ as Saviour perished as John 3:16 tells us.