The Lord's Day

[Copperhead]

Acts 20:7: "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

One aspect to this that I am not sure many think of. When does a day begin? According to Jewish tradition, based on the creation model, the day begins at sundown. They base that on the statements by God.. "and the evening and the morning" for each day of creation. So one is meeting on the first day if they have meeting on Saturday evening!

And that passage becomes more enlightening when looking at it thru that lens. They were meeting, had the lord's supper, and Paul was speaking to midnight. The "Lord's supper" or havdalah meal, is still observed in Jewish circles. It is the meal that is held on Saturday evening (when first day of the week begins) to close the sabbath. And if that was the case in this passage, it would explain why Eutychus had fallen asleep. How many of you have fallen asleep after a good meal on a Saturday evening? If this meeting had been on Sunday morning, Paul would have been speaking for over 12 hrs by the time midnight rolled around. That seems highly unlikely. But if they were meeting on the first of the week after sundown Saturday evening, which closed the sabbath, it would make more sense.

Folks get all caught up in the arguing over details and forget that they impose their western mindset on the text. The NT was written by a bunch of baptized Jewish believers. It sometimes pays to look at the text thru their eyes instead of our own. This is what happens when the church separated itself from it's Jewish roots.

So one can be honoring the Sabbath in a literal sense by having service on Saturday evening to close the sabbath, and still be having service on the first of the week. The Law says Sabbath is a day of rest, not a day of meeting. There is no prescription in the law that there be a meeting or church service on the sabbath. One can observe the sabbath by resting that day, have service on Saturday evening (when the first of the week begins) to close the sabbath, and still be fulfilling all the examples of the OT and NT and observing the literal law.

Then they can quit wasting time fighting with one another and turning issues such as this into legalism. And also quit trying to impose the traditions of some on others.

 

[Bob S]

You Love your neighbors by not coveting them, bearing false witness against them, not killing them or stealing from them.

The same as drive safely means, dont go 30mph over the speed limit, dont run stop signs and red lights, dont drive drunk, dont text and drive, and drive on the right side of the road. Yes they can be summed up as drive safely, but drive safely doesnt abolish everything that defines what drive safely is, in the same manner than all those commands can define what love is for your neighbor.

Thanks for bringing it up again SAAN, I have always supported your post. Nine of the 10 commandments deal with morality, our dealing with God and our fellow man. Anything dealing with morality is part of the Law of Love that Jesus instituted in Jn 15:12.

May I remind you that there is nothing about love in the commands “You shall not murder." “You shall not commit adultery." “You shall not steal." “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor." “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house." "You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Now ig God had written Love you neighbor and don't steal from him, rtc. then we could say the 10 were about love. As they are written they are about duty to your neighbor, etc.

 

[Thursday]

Here is what the early Christians, many of whom knew the apostles, believed about Sunday worship.




The Didache

"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).



The Letter of Barnabas



"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).



Ignatius of Antioch



"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).



Justin Martyr



"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).



Tertullian



"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).



The Didascalia



"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).



Origen



"Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

 

[woobadooba]

Here is what the early Christians, many of whom knew the apostles, believed about Sunday worship.




The Didache

"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).



The Letter of Barnabas



"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).



Ignatius of Antioch



"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).



Justin Martyr



"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).



Tertullian



"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).



The Didascalia



"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).



Origen



"Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

We know what these people said, but what biblical proof is there to show that these beliefs were held by the Apostles?

 

[bugkiller]

It makes me sad to see people who call themselves Christians attack others for encouraging people to keep God's Ten Commandments. There is no record of Jesus or any of the Apostles doing this. So who is the influence behind such behavior? Certainly not the Holy Spirit.

It makes me sad when some here refuse to fully accept the NC. It makes me more than cringe when they also try to convince others to follow them in their version of the law disregarding what Jesus did for us.

bugkiller

 

[klutedavid]

We know what these people said, but what biblical proof is there to show that these beliefs were held by the Apostles?

Hello woobadooba.

If the apostles did honor the day that they witnessed the risen Christ, then all those letters indicate that the eighth day was important in the early churches. If the apostles taught the Gentiles to honor the Sabbath day, then we have no feasible explanation for those letters mentioning a Sunday gathering.

Such a wide historical testimony to a first day observance, is powerful evidence against any Sabbath observance whatsoever.

 

[woobadooba]

Hello woobadooba.

If the apostles did honor the day that they witnessed the risen Christ, then all those letters indicate that the eighth day was important in the early churches. If the apostles taught the Gentiles to honor the Sabbath day, then we have no feasible explanation for those letters mentioning a Sunday gathering.

Such a wide historical testimony to a first day observance, is powerful evidence against any Sabbath observance whatsoever.

Much is said in the NT about keeping the commandments of God. No proof has been given from the Bible to show that the Sabbath is excluded.

Also, did you notice that a prediction on what day of the week Jesus would return was given?

The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

This is highly questionable. Nothing in the Bible supports such a claim.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello woobadooba.

We need to be careful.

Much is said in the NT about keeping the commandments of God. No proof has been given from the Bible to show that the Sabbath is excluded.

We note that the Gentiles are not taught to obey the TEN commandments in the New Testament. Not one line of the New Testament has that phrase, i.e., obey the ten commandments. Though the Gentiles are told time and time again, that they are not under the law.

Not even in Acts 15, where we would expect to see the phrase, the ten commandments, the phrase is not even in the text. Nothing could be simpler to teach than the ten commandments, that is all the apostles needed to say. Why did the apostles not teach the obvious?

It would take no more than one hour for the average person to memorize the ten commandments. Why does the New Testament lack this instruction, obey the ten commandments.

Also, did you notice that a prediction on what day of the week Jesus would return was given?

The apostles can only testify to when they saw the risen Christ. That is their duty as witnesses, when did they see the risen Jesus? The apostles are prohibited from saying that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, because they did not witness that. They only saw Jesus on the next day, the first day, the Lord's day.

The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

This is highly questionable. Nothing in the Bible supports such a claim.

This is the historical practice of the early churches, way before the Catholic church was underway.

 

[listed]

Hi Thursday, please show us from scripture where all those religious men of old came up with the idea that Sunday is any different than any other day. Where are we commanded or even given a suggestion that we meet every Sunday? What makes it a high Holy day?

How can Thursday do this? He can't reveal their sources because he can't question men who've been dead for centuries. Early church fathers are fair game of other more recent religious leaders are game. The opposition can't show the same from historical records that I know of. That is why they play on the RCC and Constantine.

 

[listed]

Much is said in the NT about keeping the commandments of God. No proof has been given from the Bible to show that the Sabbath is excluded.

Also, did you notice that a prediction on what day of the week Jesus would return was given?

The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

This is highly questionable. Nothing in the Bible supports such a claim.

Why is this questionable, other than it doesn't support your view? Do you have anything questioning the Didascalia? This is the first quote I've ever seen from this document. Thank-you for giving another source.

 

[Thursday]

Hi Thursday, please show us from scripture where all those religious men of old came up with the idea that Sunday is any different than any other day. Where are we commanded or even given a suggestion that we meet every Sunday? What makes it a high Holy day?

That is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. It doesn't really matter what day they chose to meet, that's the point. However, they did choose Sunday. That is their prerogative given that Jesus told us to listen to the apostles.

 

[Thursday]

We know what these people said, but what biblical proof is there to show that these beliefs were held by the Apostles?

These people learned the gospel from the apostles. Can you find competing beliefs among the earlier Christians? Why would we take your word for it 2000 years later?

 

[woobadooba]

These people learned the gospel from the apostles. Can you find competing beliefs among the earlier Christians? Why would we take your word for it 2000 years later?

How do you know their beliefs agreed with what the Apostles taught? How do you test their words to validate their claims?

 

[woobadooba]

The apostles can only testify to when they saw the risen Christ. That is their duty as witnesses, when did they see the risen Jesus? The apostles are prohibited from saying that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, because they did not witness that. They only saw Jesus on the next day, the first day, the Lord's day.

You misunderstood the point I made. The quote from Didascalia 2, predicts the day of the week on which Jesus will supposedly return.

The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Again, this is highly questionable. Nothing in the Bible supports such a claim.

Listen to the words of Jesus:

Mark 13:32 (NKJV) "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

 

[Thursday]

How do you know their beliefs agreed with what the Apostles taught? How do you test their words to validate their claims?

Why would they change the apostles teachings? Many of these men were killed for their faith in Christ.

 

[Thursday]

Why did you avoid my questions? Will you answer my questions?

How do you know their beliefs agreed with what the Apostles taught? How do you test their words to validate their claims?

The claims are supported by the Church Jesus started. How do you know which books belong in the New Testament?

 

[SAAN]

I dont think Jesus came to start any church.

 

[woobadooba]

The claims are supported by the Church Jesus started. How do you know which books belong in the New Testament?

Which Scriptures did the Apostles use to support their teachings? Which Scriptures did Jesus use?

And why do we see these so-called disciples of the Apostles talking about Sunday being the Lord's day, but do not see the Apostles themselves saying such a thing in their writings?

Yet we see the Apostles telling others to keep God's commandments.

 

[Thursday]

Which Scriptures did the Apostles use to support their teachings? Which Scriptures did Jesus use?

And why do we see these so-called disciples of the Apostles talking about Sunday being the Lord's day, but do not see the Apostles themselves saying such a thing in their writings?

Yet we see the Apostles telling others to keep God's commandments.

Here's what Paul said:

Col 2:16
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

 

[woobadooba]

Here's what Paul said:

Col 2:16
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

I already gave my take on the passage above. You can read it here.

You have not adequately answered my questions on how we test the validity of claims made about God.

You say it is "the Church Jesus started", but what is that supposed to mean? How do we know the Church you think of as being of Christ is speaking the truth as it is in Jesus? How do we test its doctrines? There are false churches, you know (see Matt. 7:21-23).