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The Lord's Day

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by woobadooba, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    John said, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet" (Revelation 1:10, NKJV).

    Mainstream Christianity argues that John, in speaking of "the Lord's Day," was referring to "Sunday"— the first day of the week.

    Question: What biblical proof is there to validate the belief that John was speaking of "Sunday" when using the words, "the Lord's Day".

    Note: the expression, "the Lord's Day," only appears once in the Scriptures. But other expressions similar to it appear, such as "day of the LORD" (29 times), for example.

    Could there be a correlation between "the Lord's Day" and "day of the LORD"? In other words, could it be possible that Mainstream Christianity has it wrong in thinking John was speaking of Sunday? Could it be that, in speaking of being "in the Spirit," he was speaking prophetically of the "day of the LORD," but expressing the thought with a slight variation—i.e., "the Lord's Day"?

    Verses Taken from the New King James Version (emphasis mine)

    Isaiah 2:12 — For the day of the LORD of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up— And it shall be brought low—

    Isaiah 13:6 — Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

    Isaiah 13:9 — Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.

    Isaiah 34:8 — For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

    Jeremiah 46:10 — For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, A day of vengeance, That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries. The sword shall devour; It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood; For the Lord GOD of hosts has a sacrifice In the north country by the River Euphrates.

    Lamentations 2:22 — "You have invited as to a feast day The terrors that surround me. In the day of the LORD's anger There was no refugee or survivor. Those whom I have borne and brought up My enemies have destroyed."

    Ezekiel 13:5 — You have not gone up into the gaps to build a wall for the house of Israel to stand in battle on the day of the LORD.

    Ezekiel 30:3 — For the day is near, Even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.

    Joel 1:15 — Alas for the day! For the day of the LORD is at hand; It shall come as destruction from the Almighty.

    Joel 2:1 — Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the LORD is coming, For it is at hand:

    Joel 2:11 — The LORD gives voice before His army, For His camp is very great; For strong is the One who executes His word. For the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; Who can endure it?

    Joel 2:31 — The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

    Joel 3:14 — Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

    Amos 5:18 — Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.

    Amos 5:20 — Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light? Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it?

    Obadiah 1:15 — "For the day of the LORD upon all the nations is near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head.

    Zephaniah 1:7 — Be silent in the presence of the Lord GOD; For the day of the LORD is at hand, For the LORD has prepared a sacrifice; He has invited His guests.

    Zephaniah 1:8 — "And it shall be, In the day of the LORD's sacrifice, That I will punish the princes and the king's children, And all such as are clothed with foreign apparel.

    Zephaniah 1:14 — The great day of the LORD is near; It is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out.

    Zephaniah 1:18 — Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath; But the whole land shall be devoured By the fire of His jealousy, For He will make speedy riddance Of all those who dwell in the land.

    Zephaniah 2:2 — Before the decree is issued, Or the day passes like chaff, Before the LORD's fierce anger comes upon you, Before the day of the LORD's anger comes upon you!

    Zephaniah 2:3 — Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the LORD's anger.

    Zechariah 14:1 — Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.

    Malachi 4:5 — Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

    Acts 2:20 — THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND AWESOME DAY OF THE LORD.

    1 Corinthians 5:5 — deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    2 Corinthians 1:14 — (as also you have understood us in part), that we are your boast as you also are ours, in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    1 Thessalonians 5:2 — For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

    2 Peter 3:10 — But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  2. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    Hopefully, someone will respond. I think this is a subject worth discussing, because if John wasn't referring to Sunday as "the Lord's Day," then that would mean there is no biblical basis for calling Sunday "the Lord's Day".

    We are instructed to "test the spirits" (1 John 4:1). The Bible gives us sufficient information to do that (see 2 Tim. 3:16-17). We find an example of Jesus using Scripture in this way (see Matt. 4:1-11). We are instructed to follow His example (see 1 John 2:6).

    Having said that, if there is no biblical basis for calling Sunday "the Lord's Day," then what means are being used to test this doctrine to see if it is of God?

    Acts 17:10-11, NKJV (emphasis mine): "Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so."
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  3. listed

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    You think there's no difference between Lord's day and day of the Lord. Why?
     
  4. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    Perhaps you can answer the questions I've already asked. Then we can move on from there.
     
  5. listed

    listed are you?

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    I'm sorry but you need to respond to my question. You only by pass it as unimportant. I think it's vital to any response I might provide.
     
  6. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    Actually, it appears that you are treating my questions as unimportant. I asked several questions.

    I am looking for honest answers here from people who use what John said concerning "the Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10), as a proof text that he was referring to Sunday. If this is your belief, can you provide evidence from the Bible to support such a conclusion?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  7. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Interesting, I don't believe anyone can prove that the term means any day of the week. Sunday thumpers use it as a tool just as Saturday thumpers uses "The Sabbath was made for man" to try to prove Christians are to observe Saturday. The new covenant has nothing to say about the keeping of days. All we are told to do is not forsake assembling ourselves together. Jesus leaves it up to us as when we decide to have corporate worship.

    As far as I am concerned the discussion need not go any further.
     
  8. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    We need to have a solid basis for our beliefs concerning God. If we have no way to validate our doctrines, then how can we be sure what we are saying is of God? The Bereans understood this (see Acts 7:10-11).

    As for your opinion about the worthiness of this discussion, you are free to refrain from getting involved. But I believe it is worth talking about . . . for reasons already mentioned above.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Well it is true that "Day of the Lord" can refer to the 2nd coming and judgment of the World (The Awesome and "dreadful Day of the Lord") -- but there is another case not in your list

    "The Holy Day of the Lord" - is another case - and in this one it is the weekly Sabbath "My Holy day",

    Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from THE Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My Holy Day; and call THE Sabbath a delight, THE Holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

    Mark 2:28 "the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath"

    NKJV
    “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
    From doing your pleasure on My Holy Day,
    And call the Sabbath a delight,
    The Holy Day of the Lord honorable,
    And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
    Nor finding your own pleasure,
    Nor speaking your own words,


    "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Good point.

    Sola Scripiture --- is much preferred over "sola snark" - and I think everyone agrees on that point.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Amen!

    Good point.
    And Sola Scriptura also a great point (for those not at war with the doctrine the teaches "Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine all tradition all practice)

    Now consider this - "what if" there are a great many people that have already been asked to look at that issue - and have been convicted that as you say - there is no Bible basis for their tradition setting aside the 4th commandment - and so really really do not want to have this Bible detail come up at all.

    Have you considered that possibility?

    Take a look (for example) at page one of this thread --
    Dec 22, 2016 #1
     
  12. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    I have considered this position, and have known of it for many years. I don't deny the possibility. However, the apocalyptic nature of Revelation doesn't seem to support it. Moreover, there is no apparent evidence in the Bible of the Sabbath being specifically referred to as "the Lord's Day".

    One thing is for sure, however, the belief that John was speaking of Sunday in Revelation 1:10 has no apparent biblical support. Therefore, it should not be used as a proof text for such a belief.

    All First Day of the Week References in NT (KJV)
    Not one of them refers to the first day of the week as the Lord's Day.


    Matthew 28:1: "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."

    Mark 16:2: "And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."

    Mark 16:9: "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

    Luke 24:1: "Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them."

    John 20:1: "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

    John 20:19: "Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you."

    Acts 20:7: "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

    1 Corinthians 16:2: "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    There is this - as far as a day of the week with that designation - but this is as close as it comes to any particular day of the week - given that title.

    "Holy day of the Lord" - "My Holy day"

    And none of these examples are of the form - The Awesome and "dreadful Day of the Lord"

    Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from THE Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My Holy Day; and call THE Sabbath a delight, THE Holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

    Mark 2:28 "the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath"

    NKJV
    “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
    From doing your pleasure on My Holy Day,
    And call the Sabbath a delight,
    The Holy Day of the Lord honorable,
    And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
    Nor finding your own pleasure,
    Nor speaking your own words,


    "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth.


    True.

    But it is ALSO certain that John was not in the spirit - in vision - in the future.

    I don't know of any text where a prophet sees a future event and says "I was in the spirit on the day of this future event".

    Indeed we do not have "week day 1 is the Lord's Day of the Lord Thy God" - we do have that for Sabbath however.

    We do not have "every week day 1 the gathered in the Synagogue to hear Gospel preaching - both Jews AND gentiles" -- but we DO have Acts 18:4 on that very point regarding Sabbath.

    We do not have "there REMAINS therefore a week-day-1 as the Lord's Day for the people of God" - but we DO have that for "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" in Hebrews 4.

    We have "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" in Rev 14:12 - but we do not have "Remember week-day-1 as the Lord's Day - this is the commandment of God"

    We do NOT have "scripture is read every week-day-1" as a "solution" for the Acts 15 division issue - but we DO have "Moses is read in the synagogues every SABBATH" (as we see in Acts 18:4) as part of the "solution" offered in Acts 15 to the church division.

    In Acts 13 the GENTILES ask that the Gospel be preached AGAIN to them "the NEXT Sabbath"
     
  14. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Every day is the Lord's day. How some twist it to mean a certain day is their problem. Sunday keepers think it means Sunday and Saturday keepers think it means Saturday. I have not found, in the New Testament, where Christians are commanded to observe a special day. Salvation requirements are not about keeping days, it is about believing in Jesus and loving our fellow man as Jesus loves us. If we do this we are doing right. 1Jn3:19-24
     
  15. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    Like I said, I am open to the possibility that John was referring to the Sabbath when speaking of the "Lord's Day". But there isn't enough evidence for me to accept that position at this time.
     
  16. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    Why do you limit yourself to the New Testament? Do you not believe the Old Testament has application to our lives?

    Paul said, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17, NKJV)

    At the time of writing this, there was no New Testament to read from. Paul was referring to what we know of as the Old Testament.

    Regarding the idea that every day is the Lord's day, you may think like that if you want to, but God didn't make that rule. What God did, however, is sanctify the seventh day (set it apart from the other days as a holy day). And He commanded His people to keep it holy (see Genesis 2:2-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:9).

    If you want to say you regard every day as the "Lord's day," then that is different. But to say, "Every day is the Lord's day," and then follow it up with, "some twist it to mean a certain day," is to imply we must agree with and follow your rule.

    In speaking in this way, you are adding a rule to the Scriptures that isn't there, and expecting us to follow it. What makes that different from what the Pharisees did who added many rules to what God gave His people?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Don't you have to make the case for this -- if you say that it can only be the awesome and dreadful day of the Lord? (A future event)

    ==========================================================

    But it is ALSO certain that John was not in the spirit - in vision - in the future.

    I don't know of any text where a prophet sees a future event and says "I was in the spirit on the day of this future event".
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Until you read Hebrews 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
    And read Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
    Such that the NT believers "are in the synagogue EVERY Sabbath" with Gospel preaching to BOTH Jews and Gentiles - Acts 18:4

    Which is inline with the scripture that says for all eternity after the cross the people of God observe the Sabbath "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 after the cross - for all eternity - in the New Earth.
     
  19. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    The only place where we see this expression, "the Lord's Day," is in Rev. 1:10. In all places referring to the Sabbath throughout the Scriptures, we don't see this. So it is not clear to me that it could be referring to the Sabbath.

    Due to the apocalyptic nature of the book of Revelation, it makes more sense to me that it is referring to the Day of the LORD. Of course, I could be completely wrong about that. I just don't have enough evidence to make a conclusion at this time.

    And I hope you are open to the possibility of being wrong. For we need to be careful to avoid making opinions facts.
     
  20. prophetjul

    prophetjul New Member

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    Did you know that the phrase 'first day of the week' is not found in the original texts?
    Many of the earlier translations had the word 'day' in italics.

    Translated properly, it would be 'first of the Sabbaths'. This is a reason for this.

    In fact, the Jews do not name the days of the week other than the seventh day Sabbath.
     
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