Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
59
Texas
✟49,429.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I already gave my take on the passage above. You can read it here.

You have not adequately answered my questions on how we test the validity of claims made about God.

You say it is "the Church Jesus started", but what is that supposed to mean? How do we know the Church you think of as being of Christ is speaking the truth as it is in Jesus? How do we test its doctrines? There are false churches, you know (see Matt. 7:21-23).


Jesus only started one Church. Which Church is 2000 years old?
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
59
Texas
✟49,429.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Why won't you answer my questions?


I did answer them. Jesus started a single Church 2000 years ago. It still exists. That's how we test doctrines.

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

1 Tim 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
 
Upvote 0

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟552,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I dont think Jesus came to start any church.
I agree. The "church", more properly called assembly, started back at Mount Sinai in the Wilderness. There's always been 1 church/assembly/congregation, called Israel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SAAN
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
59
Texas
✟49,429.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I agree. The "church", more properly called assembly, started back at Mount Sinai in the Wilderness. There's always been 1 church/assembly/congregation, called Israel.

Matt 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Acts 15
22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
 
Upvote 0

woobadooba

Legend
Sep 4, 2005
11,307
914
✟10,191.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Matt 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Acts 15
22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
The answer to my questions is: the Scriptures. If church doctrine is contrary to the Scriptures, then I see it as false (not of God). Moreover, if there is no clear biblical support for a teaching concerning God, then it should not be expressed as fact but taken as an opinion.

I don't rest my faith on the teachings of men; rather, I put my trust in the Word of God. Nothing will change that.

There is no biblical support for Sunday being the Lord's Day, nor any Scriptural proof that the Sabbath day has been changed or done away with. Therefore, I do not see such beliefs as coming from God.

That's not to say I look upon those who go to church on Sunday with disfavor. I do not object to people attending church on Sunday. I object to people rejecting the Sabbath day. I believe the Sabbath is to be kept holy, just as God commanded. The Sabbath is on the seventh day, not the first.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Hello woobadooba.

You said the following.
Much is said in the NT about keeping the commandments of God. No proof has been given from the Bible to show that the Sabbath is excluded.
Show me where the apostles said, keep the ten commandments.
Also, did you notice that a prediction on what day of the week Jesus would return was given?
Yes woobadooba, that has nothing to do with the fact that these early churches did not honor the Sabbath day.
The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).
So much for Constantine changing the day, the first day was in full swing before Constantine.
This is highly questionable. Nothing in the Bible supports such a claim.
This is historical witness, if you question all historical documentation, then how would you accept the New Testament?

The New Testament as we know it was not even fully complete even within the third century.

By the early 200s, Origen may have been using the same twenty-seven books as in the Catholic New Testament canon, though there were still disputes over the canonicity of the Letter to the Hebrews, Epistle of James, II Peter, II John and III John and the Book of Revelation. (Wikipedia)

Before the New Testament was accepted in any complete form, the first day was the day that the disciples gathered.

That is the historical record, the disciples of the first, second and third centuries, followed the traditions handed down. The New Testament was still being built during these centuries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob S
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
That is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. It doesn't really matter what day they chose to meet, that's the point. However, they did choose Sunday. That is their prerogative given that Jesus told us to listen to the apostles.
Hello Thursday.

The time of the resurrection is unknown.

The day of the resurrection is also unknown, no witness to that.

Only the risen Christ was observed and that was on the third day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob S
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,584
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Who should care about keeping any day. Salvation is not about keeping days. Keeping days was part of the old covenant that God gave to Israel as the way to live in Canaan. No other nation on Earth was given Torah yet all are God's children.

Torah was not about salvation then and it certainly is not now.
 
Upvote 0

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,664
2,799
Midwest
✟301,600.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sabbath keeping [with all it's rules and regulations], was part of a covenant with Israel that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant and the Sabbath day did not change from Saturday to Sunday.

Christians worship God on Sunday (the Lord's Day), because the first day of the week became associated with Christ's resurrection (Matthew 28:1-10; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; Revelation 1:10).

We are not to get hung up on the Sabbath day, which is a shadow of things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ (Colossians 2:16-17).
 
Upvote 0

mnorian

Oldbie--Eternal Optimist
In Memory Of
Mar 9, 2013
36,781
10,563
✟980,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Mod hat on
upload_2017-7-21_11-32-1.jpeg

Thread has been clenedup of flaming post
Please be civil to other members and no
Flaming.
Carry on.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums