"first of the week" and "first day of the week" are the exact same in meaning.Only the word, "day," is in italics; meaning, it was added by the translators.
Translated properly?
It would be better to say, translated literally. Then it would be, "first of the week". The translators, who knew the languages better than most of us, added "day," because it made sense to do so. Hence, "first day of the week".
There is no hemera in this Greek Interlinear hereIt is not in italics in my off the shelf 30 year old Bible. I checked my interlinear and the word day is there in Greek. Besides that i have had many discussions over the word "hēmera" from the text.
bugkiller
No, it is not."first of the week" and "first day of the week" are the exact same in meaning.
bugkiller
I find it quite telling that not one person so far has been able to answer your question here. Instead they have engaged in the typical attack of the messenger. Is there any Christian here honest enough to answer the question outright without dodging it?Question: What biblical proof is there to validate the belief that John was speaking of "Sunday" when using the words, "the Lord's Day".
The subject of the thread is Rev 1:10. Hemera is found there.There is no hemera in this Greek Interlinear here
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat28.pdf
Nor here
Matthew 28 Interlinear Bible
Very subtle difference there. I posted "week" and you posted "weeks." So yes I agree "first of weeks" is not about a day. you will not get me with "first of the week."No, it is not.
Not to an ancient Jew, it is not.
They do not name the days of the week apart from the Sabbath.
"First of the weeks" has nothing to do with a 'day'.
I do not think Paul is saying the first of sabbaths in I Cor 16. If he was, what is the first of the sabbaths? I think Paul is talking about Sunday. A more correct interpretation might be on the first day toward the sabbath.Did you know that the phrase 'first day of the week' is not found in the original texts?
Many of the earlier translations had the word 'day' in italics.
Translated properly, it would be 'first of the Sabbaths'. This is a reason for this.
In fact, the Jews do not name the days of the week other than the seventh day Sabbath.
I would show quotes saying Lord's day to be a common phrase for our Sunday in historical records. But the OP asked for a Bible verse. I do not think the word Sunday naming a week day was available until 2d or 3d century.I find it quite telling that not one person so far has been able to answer your question here. Instead they have engaged in the typical attack of the messenger. Is there any Christian here honest enough to answer the question outright without dodging it?
I am aware of such quotes. But how do we know they accurately reflect what the apostles taught and believed? How do we know the people who spoke such things weren't in error? There must be something to reference in order to test these things (1 John 4:1). I refer to the Scriptures (2 tim. 3:16-17; Acts 17:11). But nothing in the Bible says Sunday is the Lord's Day. Therefore, I cannot accept it as fact.I would show quotes saying Lord's day to be a common phrase for our Sunday in historical records. But the OP asked for a Bible verse. I do not think the word Sunday naming a week day was available until 2d or 3d century.
bugkiller
What you are saying to me is all historians are liars. So since everything is a fraud there can be no truth.I am aware of such quotes. But how do we know they accurately reflect what the apostles taught and believed? How do we know the people who spoke such things weren't in error? There must be something to reference in order to test these things (1 John 4:1). I refer to the Scriptures (2 tim. 3:16-17; Acts 17:11). But nothing in the Bible says Sunday is the Lord's Day. Therefore, I cannot accept it as fact.
I have no problem admitting I am in error. But I want the proof to come from the Bible, not man made traditions.The deal here at CF is everybody except the poster is always in error and untrue.
bugkiller
No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is I use the Scriptures as a means to test doctrines concerning God. If the things people are teaching agree with what the Bible says, then I welcome it. If not, I don't accept it as coming from God.What you are saying to me is all historians are liars. So since everything is a fraud there can be no truth.
bugkiller
I wrote:I find it quite telling that not one person so far has been able to answer your question here. Instead they have engaged in the typical attack of the messenger. Is there any Christian here honest enough to answer the question outright without dodging it?
Interesting, I don't believe anyone can prove that the term means any day of the week. Sunday thumpers use it as a tool just as Saturday thumpers uses "The Sabbath was made for man" to try to prove Christians are to observe Saturday. The new covenant has nothing to say about the keeping of days. All we are told to do is not forsake assembling ourselves together. Jesus leaves it up to us as when we decide to have corporate worship.
No, it's just that all the incidental occurrences happen on the first day of the week. Not once in the 40 days Jesus was here after the resurrection is anything recorded about the sabbath.There really is no proof on what day of the week John was referring to. Theology school pushes it as Sunday, probably because everything else the RCC has passed down. Saturday could be argued over Lord of the Sabbath, but it could have been a biblical Feast Day John was referring to as well.
In the end its just wild and or best educated guess on what day John was talking about.
Oh, you are talking about something else.There is no hemera in this Greek Interlinear here
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat28.pdf
Nor here
Matthew 28 Interlinear Bible
You demand an impossible. Your deal is the destruction of faith and facts to force the law on unsuspecting people.I have no problem admitting I am in error. But I want the proof to come from the Bible, not man made traditions.
John said, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet" (Revelation 1:10, NKJV).
Mainstream Christianity argues that John, in speaking of "the Lord's Day," was referring to "Sunday"— the first day of the week.
Question: What biblical proof is there to validate the belief that John was speaking of "Sunday" when using the words, "the Lord's Day".
Note: the expression, "the Lord's Day," only appears once in the Scriptures. But other expressions similar to it appear, such as "day of the LORD" (29 times), for example.
Could there be a correlation between "the Lord's Day" and "day of the LORD"? In other words, could it be possible that Mainstream Christianity has it wrong in thinking John was speaking of Sunday? Could it be that, in speaking of being "in the Spirit," he was speaking prophetically of the "day of the LORD," but expressing the thought with a slight variation—i.e., "the Lord's Day"?
Verses Taken from the New King James Version (emphasis mine)
Isaiah 2:12 — For the day of the LORD of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up— And it shall be brought low—
Isaiah 13:6 — Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:9 — Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.
Isaiah 34:8 — For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
Jeremiah 46:10 — For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, A day of vengeance, That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries. The sword shall devour; It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood; For the Lord GOD of hosts has a sacrifice In the north country by the River Euphrates.
Lamentations 2:22 — "You have invited as to a feast day The terrors that surround me. In the day of the LORD's anger There was no refugee or survivor. Those whom I have borne and brought up My enemies have destroyed."
Ezekiel 13:5 — You have not gone up into the gaps to build a wall for the house of Israel to stand in battle on the day of the LORD.
Ezekiel 30:3 — For the day is near, Even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.
Joel 1:15 — Alas for the day! For the day of the LORD is at hand; It shall come as destruction from the Almighty.
Joel 2:1 — Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the LORD is coming, For it is at hand:
Joel 2:11 — The LORD gives voice before His army, For His camp is very great; For strong is the One who executes His word. For the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; Who can endure it?
Joel 2:31 — The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
Joel 3:14 — Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Amos 5:18 — Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:20 — Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light? Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it?
Obadiah 1:15 — "For the day of the LORD upon all the nations is near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head.
Zephaniah 1:7 — Be silent in the presence of the Lord GOD; For the day of the LORD is at hand, For the LORD has prepared a sacrifice; He has invited His guests.
Zephaniah 1:8 — "And it shall be, In the day of the LORD's sacrifice, That I will punish the princes and the king's children, And all such as are clothed with foreign apparel.
Zephaniah 1:14 — The great day of the LORD is near; It is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out.
Zephaniah 1:18 — Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath; But the whole land shall be devoured By the fire of His jealousy, For He will make speedy riddance Of all those who dwell in the land.
Zephaniah 2:2 — Before the decree is issued, Or the day passes like chaff, Before the LORD's fierce anger comes upon you, Before the day of the LORD's anger comes upon you!
Zephaniah 2:3 — Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the LORD's anger.
Zechariah 14:1 — Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
Malachi 4:5 — Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
Acts 2:20 — THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND AWESOME DAY OF THE LORD.
1 Corinthians 5:5 — deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2 Corinthians 1:14 — (as also you have understood us in part), that we are your boast as you also are ours, in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 — For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
2 Peter 3:10 — But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
John said, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet" (Revelation 1:10, NKJV).
Mainstream Christianity argues that John, in speaking of "the Lord's Day," was referring to "Sunday"— the first day of the week.
Question: What biblical proof is there to validate the belief that John was speaking of "Sunday" when using the words, "the Lord's Day".
Note: the expression, "the Lord's Day," only appears once in the Scriptures. But other expressions similar to it appear, such as "day of the LORD" (29 times), for example.
Could there be a correlation between "the Lord's Day" and "day of the LORD"? In other words, could it be possible that Mainstream Christianity has it wrong in thinking John was speaking of Sunday? Could it be that, in speaking of being "in the Spirit," he was speaking prophetically of the "day of the LORD," but expressing the thought with a slight variation—i.e., "the Lord's Day"?
Verses Taken from the New King James Version (emphasis mine)
Isaiah 2:12 — For the day of the LORD of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up— And it shall be brought low—
Isaiah 13:6 — Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:9 — Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.
Isaiah 34:8 — For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
Jeremiah 46:10 — For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, A day of vengeance, That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries. The sword shall devour; It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood; For the Lord GOD of hosts has a sacrifice In the north country by the River Euphrates.
Lamentations 2:22 — "You have invited as to a feast day The terrors that surround me. In the day of the LORD's anger There was no refugee or survivor. Those whom I have borne and brought up My enemies have destroyed."
Ezekiel 13:5 — You have not gone up into the gaps to build a wall for the house of Israel to stand in battle on the day of the LORD.
Ezekiel 30:3 — For the day is near, Even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.
Joel 1:15 — Alas for the day! For the day of the LORD is at hand; It shall come as destruction from the Almighty.
Joel 2:1 — Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the LORD is coming, For it is at hand:
Joel 2:11 — The LORD gives voice before His army, For His camp is very great; For strong is the One who executes His word. For the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; Who can endure it?
Joel 2:31 — The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
Joel 3:14 — Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Amos 5:18 — Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:20 — Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light? Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it?
Obadiah 1:15 — "For the day of the LORD upon all the nations is near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head.
Zephaniah 1:7 — Be silent in the presence of the Lord GOD; For the day of the LORD is at hand, For the LORD has prepared a sacrifice; He has invited His guests.
Zephaniah 1:8 — "And it shall be, In the day of the LORD's sacrifice, That I will punish the princes and the king's children, And all such as are clothed with foreign apparel.
Zephaniah 1:14 — The great day of the LORD is near; It is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out.
Zephaniah 1:18 — Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath; But the whole land shall be devoured By the fire of His jealousy, For He will make speedy riddance Of all those who dwell in the land.
Zephaniah 2:2 — Before the decree is issued, Or the day passes like chaff, Before the LORD's fierce anger comes upon you, Before the day of the LORD's anger comes upon you!
Zephaniah 2:3 — Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the LORD's anger.
Zechariah 14:1 — Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
Malachi 4:5 — Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
Acts 2:20 — THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND AWESOME DAY OF THE LORD.
1 Corinthians 5:5 — deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2 Corinthians 1:14 — (as also you have understood us in part), that we are your boast as you also are ours, in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 — For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
2 Peter 3:10 — But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
Does that mean there is no truth?The deal here at CF is everybody except the poster is always in error and untrue.
bugkiller
I don't think you'd accept it.I have no problem admitting I am in error. But I want the proof to come from the Bible, not man made traditions.
I don't see any exegetical efforts on your part to establish anything.No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is I use the Scriptures as a means to test doctrines concerning God. If the things people are teaching agree with what the Bible says, then I welcome it. If not, I don't accept it as coming from God.
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