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The Lord's Day

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by woobadooba, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. listed

    listed are you?

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    You surmise both phrases mean the same thing. It isn't my job to prove otherwise. It's you job to support your idea.

    I get the distinct impression that is not quite true.
     
  2. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    Only the word, "day," is in italics; meaning, it was added by the translators.

    Translated properly?

    It would be better to say, translated literally. Then it would be, "first of the week". The translators, who knew the languages better than most of us, added "day," because it made sense to do so. Hence, "first day of the week".
     
  3. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    I gave reasons for my position. I did not say or imply that it is correct. To the contrary, I said I am open to the possibility of being wrong.

    Having said that, when you are going to answer my questions?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  4. listed

    listed are you?

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    In-other-words what you're really trying to do is destroy the practice of most Christians to bring into bondage legalism also known as works salvation.
     
  5. listed

    listed are you?

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    Right after you prove you point, sir.
     
  6. prophetjul

    prophetjul New Member

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    The word 'Sabbaton' is plural. Therefore the phrase should be 'first of the weeks'.

    Made sense to whom? Sure does not make sense to the Jew.
     
  7. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    You are jumping to conclusions, and making false statements about me. This behavior is not helpful to you or anyone else.

    It would do you well to heed the words of James: "So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (James 1:19, NKJV).
     
  8. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    "Elohim" is also plural. Yet there is only one God (see Deuteronomy 6:4). Likewise, there is only one day out of the weekly cycle in which God rested and blessed and sanctified . . . the seventh-day (see Genesis 2:2-3).

    And the word, "week," in "first of the week," is not in the plural. You are making things up, or have been taught wrongly.

    I feel we are going off topic now. Please, let's keep this thread on topic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  9. SAAN

    SAAN Newbie

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    There really is no proof on what day of the week John was referring to. Theology school pushes it as Sunday, probably because everything else the RCC has passed down. Saturday could be argued over Lord of the Sabbath, but it could have been a biblical Feast Day John was referring to as well.

    In the end its just wild and or best educated guess on what day John was talking about.
     
  10. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    That must make for immense confusion in Israel if you need to make any sort of appointment on a day other than Saturday.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    I agree that the "exact" phrase is not used elsewhere just like John is the only one to use the term "antichrist" and the only one to use the phrase "lake of fire".

    But that does not mean that the subject is not also discussed in other books of the Bible at some level.

    In all places referring to the Sabbath throughout the Scriptures, we see the closest approximation - given that Rev 1:10 is not about John going into the future and then after that - having a vision.

    Given that this is not even a possible option.

    The one we have left is "The Holy Day of the Lord" and "My Holy Day" as "The Lord's Day" where Jesus even says "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath".

    Your reference to things like the "Awesome day of the Lord" and "terrible day of the Lord" points to a future event. John could have said "while I was in vision I was shown the Day of the Lord" or "I John saw the terrible Day of the Lord" or even "I saw the terrible and awesome Lord's Day" . Surely you and I would agree this fits the model you have proposed.

    But instead of that He is taken into vision ON the Lord's Day - which is language for a point in time, day of week or month or year - etc in which he is living and at which time he is taken into vision.

    I admit that I could be wrong -- but the details seem to point away from this language -

    "while I was in vision I was shown the Day of the Lord"
    or "I John saw the terrible Day of the Lord"
    or even "I saw the terrible and awesome Lord's Day".

    In stead of that we have " 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,”

    "Was in the Spirit" past tense.
    "ON the Lord's Day" at a specific point in time in the past.

    We both can admit that the Isaiah 58:13 phrases "The Holy Day of the Lord" and "My Holy Day" - as a weekly holy day - can easily point to day in the past that is specifically "The Holy Day of the Lord" as one possibility fitting with the way it is presented.

    To get this to be a future day -- as if prophets are taken to a future day -- and then are taken into vision while still living in the future - is something we have no reference for at all in all of scripture. Seems like a bit of a leap.

    But the "Term" as you point out - could be fit into the "awesome and terrible day of the Lord" - a future day -- if all other context details were neutral or not applicable or were favorable to it. As I propose in these examples -- "while I was in vision I was shown the Day of the Lord" or "I John saw the terrible Day of the Lord" or even "I saw the terrible and awesome Lord's Day"
     
  12. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It appears that you are here just to argue. I have more things to do friend. If you cannot differentiate between the old covenant and the new you really do have a problem. Have fun at someone else's expense.
     
  13. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    I'm not here to have fun at the expense of others, but to engage in fruitful discussion. Don't get offended when people question your beliefs. Such behavior is not helpful in setting a good example to others.
     
  14. prophetjul

    prophetjul New Member

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    The word 'Sabbaton' is plural. There is no 'day' in the phrase. And the phrase is NOT about the first day of the week. It is about the seven Sabbaths, which to a Jew is understood.

    Whereas the greek trained minds like our modern minds will think in their own trainings.
    The addition of the word 'day' to the phrase takes away what God is trying to say.

    In Young;s Literal translation

    28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

    2 and lo, there came a great earthquake, for a messenger of the Lord, having come down out of heaven, having come, did roll away the stone from the door, and was sitting upon it,

    This phrase has everything to do with the Lord's day becasue it is often taught, erroneously, this is the resurrection day of the Lord.
     
  15. prophetjul

    prophetjul New Member

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    No. There is no confusion.

    Jews have no phrase such as 'first day of the week' . They will use the phrase 'the day after Sabbath'.

    No confusion. The confusion is when the Greco mindset tries to force their understanding by changing scriptures to suite their understanding.

    Dangerous
     
  16. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    The position you are taking here makes no sense to me. I don't believe the translators were in error.
     
  17. prophetjul

    prophetjul New Member

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    The phrase i am pointing out is 'mia ton Sabbaton'. Translated as i have shown you in Young's Literal Translation is 'first of the Sabbaths'. The word 'day' is NOT found in the original greek text.

    YLT

    28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

    2 and lo, there came a great earthquake, for a messenger of the Lord, having come down out of heaven, having come, did roll away the stone from the door, and was sitting upon it,

    That is the reason why the older translations had the word 'day' in italics.

    The 'first of the Sabbaths' is to do with the counting of the seven Sabbaths to Pentecost as instructed by the Lord in Lev 23.
    In ALL the 8 times this phrase if used, it points towards Pentecost. That is Hebraic understanding,not our contemporary understanding of scriptures.
     
  18. woobadooba

    woobadooba Legend

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    I am now intrigued by this thought. I will take a deeper look at it.
     
  19. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Which person that worships on Sunday asks a question like the one in the OP. If he does worship on Sunday he is the first in over 15 years since I have been here. That would make it very rare.

    bugkiller
     
  20. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    It is not in italics in my off the shelf 30 year old Bible. I checked my interlinear and the word day is there in Greek. Besides that i have had many discussions over the word "hēmera" from the text.

    bugkiller
     
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