THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY!

[Eloy Craft]

If it is not a part of God's plan of salvation and it was created as part of the FINISHED WORK of CREATION BEFORE SIN entered the World, when mankind was in perfect harmony with God and because there was no sin there was no plan of salvation (Genesis 2:1-3)?

Yet there was no observance of it. It was not a sign of the covenant. Why? Because its not a particular day its a day beyond time and creation.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That makes sense except for one detail. The 4th commandment is a ceremonial law.

Eloy none of the 10 Commandments are ceremonial laws. All the 10 Commandments are Moral laws. That is they are the standard of right and wrong, good and evil, sin and righteousness. The 10 Commandments are your duty to God and your fellow man.

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828 - Moral

MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. 2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being. 4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral. 5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life. 6. Reasoning or instructing with regard to vice and virtue. While thou, a moral fool, sitt'st still and cri'st. 7. In general, moral denotes something which respects the conduct of men and their relations as social beings whose actions have a bearing on each others's rights and happiness, and are therefore right or wrong, virtuous or vicious; as moral character; moral views; moral knowledge; moral sentiments; moral maxims; moral approbation; moral doubts; moral justice; moral virtue; moral obligations, &c. Or moral denotes something which respects the intellectual powers of man, as distinct form his physical powers.

God's 4th Commandment says...

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The definition of a ceremonial law is..

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]
1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.
2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.
[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

Ceremonial laws are those linked to the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT for remission of sin and include things like the Sanctuary laws for remission of sin; sin offerings and animal sacrifices and the laws retaining to the leviitical priesthood.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yet there was no observance of it. It was not a sign of the covenant. Why? Because its not a particular day its a day beyond time and creation.

Hello Eloy, I am not sure what your talking about above.

What day was Adam and Eve created (Genesis 1:27-31)? What day was the Sabbath created (Genesis 2:1-3)? Of course the Sabbath was obseved.

God's WORD says the SABBATH is a sign of God's people and an everlasting ETERNAL Covenant (Exodus 31:13;16).

Of course the Sabbath is a DAY...

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And on the SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED from all his work which God created and made.

links to...

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to keep it holy [why? Because God made it Holy Genesis 2:3].
[9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work:
[10], BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [why?]
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and RESTED the SEVENTH DAY: why the LORD blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and made it holy.

links to...

REVELATION 1:10 [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY"?

MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

Yep seems pretty clear through God's WORD Eloy that the LORD'S DAY, the SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY of the week. Seems God's WORD disagrees with you here Eloy.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pyong Ping]

God hates sin, as these passages show. ...

Thank you, "God hates sin", as transgression of the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is death:

Numbers 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Numbers 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Numbers 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Numbers 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Numbers 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Numbers 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

The wages for sin is, from the beginning?

 

[Pyong Ping]

The trouble is, all along the claim in this thread has been that God's commands regarding Sabbath are forever. And now, you tell me that what God originally said about the Sabbath is not valid because Jesus demonstrated something different...

You lied and exaggerated again (it's like you can't help yourself, Romans 8:7) about what I stated and demonstrated. I said no such thing. I said: "Jesus was in full compliance with the statments in the OT ..."

It is because you are willingly blind and deaf, choosing not to see, nor hear.

Yes, as Jesus demonstrated:

John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

John 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

You read the OT as the Pharisees did, in eisigesis. Blind leaders of the blind, and as such you will fall into the the deep ditch, that harlot of Revelation 17 (Proverbs 23:27).

Jesus was in full compliance with the statments in the OT, while the pharisees, scribes and people such as yourself have all kinds of religious traditions and eisigesis which make of none effect the commands of God.

Jesus Himself obeyed all laws, unless you would like to now say that Jesus broke the laws?

 

[Eloy Craft]

Eloy none of the 10 Commandments are ceremonial laws. All the 10 Commandments are Moral laws. That is they are the standard of right and wrong, good and evil, sin and righteousness. The 10 Commandments are your duty to God and your fellow man.

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828 - Moral

MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. 2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being. 4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral. 5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life. 6. Reasoning or instructing with regard to vice and virtue. While thou, a moral fool, sitt'st still and cri'st. 7. In general, moral denotes something which respects the conduct of men and their relations as social beings whose actions have a bearing on each others's rights and happiness, and are therefore right or wrong, virtuous or vicious; as moral character; moral views; moral knowledge; moral sentiments; moral maxims; moral approbation; moral doubts; moral justice; moral virtue; moral obligations, &c. Or moral denotes something which respects the intellectual powers of man, as distinct form his physical powers.

God's 4th Commandment says...

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The definition of a ceremonial law is..

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]
1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.
2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.
[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

Ceremonial laws are those linked to the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT for remission of sin and include things like the Sanctuary laws for remission of sin; sin offerings and animal sacrifices and the laws retaining to the leviitical priesthood.

Hope this is helpful.

it is not an either or thing. The sabbath rest is both a moral obligation and a ceremonial law. That's why the Apostles could break bread on the first day of the week and fulfill their Sabbath obligation. After all they couldn't go to the synagogue forever.

 

[Pyong Ping]

...You can't blame this one on the pharisee's adding it, when it is written in the scripture. Jeremiah 17:21

Again, show me where Jeremiah 17:21 says: "... don't even carry a pencil from one room to the next on Sabbath ..."

So, you don't even carry a pencil from one room to the next on Sabbath? You don't travel anywhere in your car? I'm not totally ignorant about this stuff. I grew up in a family that sort of kept Sunday as Sabbath. We did not work, unless absolutely necessary, but we did drive to church and food was cooked, etc.
But, when I really starting studying the Bible for myself, I find a lot of denominations are trying to mix old testament laws with the new covenant, and there is a lot of distorting of scriptures going on to do that.

You did not demonstrate the point, but simply agreed with the Pharisees, in their man-made eisigesis and vain tradition, and thus accuse the real sabbath-keepers (as Jesus was, and as they also did).

You will never find evidence for such a claim as you made, except as by like example in the Babylonian Talmud, and other such things.

 

[Pyong Ping]

"Christ Jesus gives strength to overcome all sin. Yes or no?"

Oh, I'm sorry, when you said "all" I assumed you meant "all." Did you actually mean something else?

I said "all" and meant "all", since that is what scripture says, contrary to your own position.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But you still are unwilling to understand even this, in connection with what I said.

 

[Pyong Ping]

This is some convoluted reasoning to get around God's Sabbath command.

No, the command is obeyed in anti-type, but since the veil is still upon you, you read it as you do and obey neither.

 

[Pyong Ping]

it is not an either or thing. The sabbath rest is both a moral obligation and a ceremonial law. That's why the Apostles could break bread on the first day of the week and fulfill their Sabbath obligation. After all they couldn't go to the synagogue forever.

Jesuit nonsense.

The commandments of God (Exodus 20:-17) are "spiritual" (Romans 7:14), never 'ceremonial'.

The Apostles fellowshipped and gathered together, "daily", from "house to house" after being ejected from the Temple and local synagogues (gathering places):

Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

"breaking bread" is simply fellowship meals, "eat their 'meat' [food] with gladness and singleness of heart".

"The first [day] of the week" in Koine Greek proves the differentiation from the holy and blessed 7th day the sabbath of the Lord from the common working day, the first [day] of the week:

Matthew 28:1(a) - oye de sabbatwn
Matthew 28:1(b) - eiV mian sabbatwn
Mark 16:2 - kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn
Mark 16:9 - anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou
Luke 24:1 - th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:1 - th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:19 - th mia twn sabbatwn
Acts 20:7 - en de th mia twn sabbatwn
1 Corinthians 16:2 - kata mian sabbatwn

the one is not the other, and never will be, not even in eternity:

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[Pyong Ping]

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

We are on the side of Michael/Jesus. You on the other.

 

[Pyong Ping]

Freedom from sin through the work of the Holy Spirit. Not our work. Not from our own efforts at trying to be good or to do good (or observe a sabbath, get circumcised, or any other law.)

Holy Spirit leads one into all truth:

Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psalms 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.

Thus you have another spirit, since you reject the truth of the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).

 

[Pyong Ping]

Pray that the Holy Spirit opens your eyes so you can see....

Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

 

[Pyong Ping]

... it is what you do regularly yourself through the indoctrination you have been taught...

I was not always a sabbath-keeper. I was not indoctrinated. The Holy Ghost Himself instructed me through prayerful study in the word of God, after I called upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

 

[bekkilyn]

I was not always a sabbath-keeper. I was not indoctrinated. The Holy Ghost Himself instructed me through prayerful study in the word of God, after I called upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

Where is your fruit of the Spirit?

22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things. - Galatians 5:22-23

 

[Loren T.]

Again, show me where Jeremiah 17:21 says: "... don't even carry a pencil from one room to the next on Sabbath ..."

You did not demonstrate the point, but simply agreed with the Pharisees, in their man-made eisigesis and vain tradition, and thus accuse the real sabbath-keepers (as Jesus was, and as they also did).

You will never find evidence for such a claim as you made, except as by like example in the Babylonian Talmud, and other such things.

The verse says you can't carry a burden, Jesus says you can. I'm not appealing to the talmud, but only to the Bible. You don't see a change there?

 

[Pyong Ping]

Where is your fruit of the Spirit?

22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things. - Galatians 5:22-23

Right here, you devil (John 6:70):

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Where is yours?

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[Pyong Ping]

The verse says you can't carry a burden...

Show me in Jeremiah where "a pencil" is "a burden". I'll wait.

 

[bekkilyn]

Right here, you devil (John 6:70):

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Where is yours?

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things. - Galatians 5:22-23

Where is evidence of this fruit in your response?

11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers and sisters. Whoever speaks evil against another or judges another, speaks evil against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save and to destroy. So who, then, are you to judge your neighbor? - James 4:11-12

 

[Loren T.]

I said "all" and meant "all", since that is what scripture says, contrary to your own position.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But you still are unwilling to understand even this, in connection with what I said.

I understand the verse fine. But when you claim believers do not sin, period, and then you won't say you don't sin, it gets more than a little confusing.
If Jesus didn't cleanse us, our everyday sins would send us to hell. Do you confess every imperfect thought you ever have? If not, you sin and are still forgiven. In fact, you have sinned multiple times in this conversation, by not being charitable to your fellow Christians.