It might not embarrass you, but I know that it embarrasses some people, because it once embarrassed me.
I seems more like he was embarrassed by the fact he had never bothered to investigate religion from an objective point of view, as a scientist would with any other subject. If he was once a doctor it seems unlikely that talking to a dying patient would have affected him that much.
That's the same conclusion mentioned in arstechnica.com - having higher intelligence proves people with a sense of comfort that others find in religion.
I think there is far more to it than that: it seems that most non-religious people seem to think people believe in God primarily for emotional reasons. While that is probably true, it often ignores the idea that people's religious beliefs might actually stem from a great deal of self-reflection and thought.
Additionally, people who have high intelligence are also known for being more prone to depression, alcoholism and drug addiction. Having a higher-than-average IQ doesn't seem to provide a lot of emotional stability.
No, I'm just going by what lesliedellow wrote.Subduction Zone said:Are you sure that he never investigated religion objectively?
For me personally, studying religion from an objective point of view would involve looking at its history (including archeological evidence), the figures which helped shape it, its theology, facts and studies about the religion itself, and even the languages used.Subduction Zone said:And just for fun, how would you do that
No, I'm just going by what lesliedellow wrote.
For me personally, studying religion from an objective point of view would involve looking at its history (including archeological evidence), the figures which helped shape it, its theology, facts and studies about the religion itself, and even the languages used.
Studying it from a subjective point of view would probably involve researching the emotions and experiences of individual believers.
Subduction Zone said:Even that sounds rather subjective. The languages used could lead you to clues as to why there were particular errors in a religion. Sometimes words and phrases or even concepts do not translate well. I still don't see how it could give very much in the way of objective evidence.
I always feel sorry for those who hope to publish some study that, while sounding highly intellectual consistently attempts to deliver the same lowbrow message; if you're religious you're stupid.
For studies like that to pass muster there would have to be no religious persons in Mensa. No genius IQ's in the sciences who profess faith in a higher power. And not a single name in recorded history wherein the person was religious, Christian as it appears that is the faith community these type studies target most, and known to be highly intelligent.
Those figures do not exist. Which puts studies like this described in the OP in their proper perspective.
Unfortunately that's not true. From this very thread:Seipai said:I don't think even the harshest of atheists is saying that religious people are stupid.
Stanlee2 said:can anyone tell me that a Muslim who truly believes that Muhammad flew up to heaven on a winged horse has not had their brain damaged in some way?
Does that have anything to do with the topic? No. You've been told once - don't comment if you have nothing to add.Stanlee2 said:Tell us, do you think a Muslim is a fool to believe that? or not?
I feel like there are other factors that aren’t taken into account, like did they experience a more nuanced and in-depth understanding of Christianity and have any experiences with good philosophers and theologians.Experience has taught me that controversial threads such as these eventually get closed or deleted by the Mods, so to keep this it going as long as possible, please keep your comments civil. That means no "Religion is for idiots!" or "Scientists are going to hell!"-type comments.
Thanks.
---
Several studies have shown that there is a negative link between religiosity, IQ and academia. That is, the more intelligent and / or well-educated a person is, the less likely they are to be religious and vice-versa. Several arguments have been put forth to explain why this is, the most peopular being that people who have high IQs are better at critical thinking and therefore reject concepts which are based on intuition or cannot be emphirically tested.
Many studies looking at the link however have noted several things which may affect the results, including:
- The link between academia and religiosity is weaker than originally thought - several studies have found that people with high IQs rejected the concept of God long before they recieved any higher education:
- The demographics of the people these surveys were taken from (even in worldwide studies) were very similar - namely that they tend to be white, male and politically liberal or left-wing. The majority of studies were also conducted in Western nations:
Interestingly the same pattern (being white, male and left-wing) is seen among Western atheists and scientists in general.
---
- The correlations between IQ, religiosity and academia varies widely within the scientific world. For example, 41% of Biologists and 40% of physicists said they did not believe in God compared to 26% of Chemists and 27% of Political Scientists. Similarly, social scientists were more likely to say they had no doubts about God existance than natural scientists, with the exception of Chemists (source: religjournal.com Page 17, Table 3).
So what do you think? Is there is link between religiosity and intelligence? Or do the studies only relflect how religion and science correlate in the Western world? Why do you think certain sciences (such as Chemistry) have more religious people than others?
First let's understand that the reason controversial posts get stopped is because some people think insults are an actual accepted response to questions regarding science.... Which in 99.9% of the cases are started by evolutionists, not creationists.... So, when the evolutionists stop with the insults we wont have to worry about threads being closed. And yes, I am the first to admit I will happily fight fire with fire when first attacked...Experience has taught me that controversial threads such as these eventually get closed or deleted by the Mods, so to keep this it going as long as possible, please keep your comments civil. That means no "Religion is for idiots!" or "Scientists are going to hell!"-type comments.
Thanks.
---
Several studies have shown that there is a negative link between religiosity, IQ and academia. That is, the more intelligent and / or well-educated a person is, the less likely they are to be religious and vice-versa. Several arguments have been put forth to explain why this is, the most peopular being that people who have high IQs are better at critical thinking and therefore reject concepts which are based on intuition or cannot be emphirically tested.
Many studies looking at the link however have noted several things which may affect the results, including:
- The link between academia and religiosity is weaker than originally thought - several studies have found that people with high IQs rejected the concept of God long before they recieved any higher education:
- The demographics of the people these surveys were taken from (even in worldwide studies) were very similar - namely that they tend to be white, male and politically liberal or left-wing. The majority of studies were also conducted in Western nations:
Interestingly the same pattern (being white, male and left-wing) is seen among Western atheists and scientists in general.
---
- The correlations between IQ, religiosity and academia varies widely within the scientific world. For example, 41% of Biologists and 40% of physicists said they did not believe in God compared to 26% of Chemists and 27% of Political Scientists. Similarly, social scientists were more likely to say they had no doubts about God existance than natural scientists, with the exception of Chemists (source: religjournal.com Page 17, Table 3).
So what do you think? Is there is link between religiosity and intelligence? Or do the studies only relflect how religion and science correlate in the Western world? Why do you think certain sciences (such as Chemistry) have more religious people than others?
Isn't that the other way around since creationists understand that those laws were formulated and found to hold true right here in this "open system". It is usually the evolutionists wanting to make a distinction between closed and open systems... despite those laws holding true in this open system where they were formulated to fit what was observed, not in any closed system that never existed...That as well, although chemistry has a share in the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, which so many people incorrectly use when they argue for creationism it makes my head want to explode.
You assert later that there were no insults in your post. I suspect you may actually believe that, however, you are mistaken.That said, did you ever stop to consider that the more educated by institutions (versus self taught) are taught only one system of belief and must conform to that system of belief in order to pass. Any challenging that system from within the institution would not pass. So those people are confined to little boxes unable to think outside of their programmed responses.... IQ tests designed for those having passed the box confining institutional one sided verbiage....
Maybe education institutions where you are teach that way, but my experience of university science courses in the UK was very different. I don't see how any public educational institution could achieve or maintain a reasonable reputation or attract students with such a blinkered approach.... did you ever stop to consider that the more educated by institutions (versus self taught) are taught only one system of belief and must conform to that system of belief in order to pass. Any challenging that system from within the institution would not pass. So those people are confined to little boxes unable to think outside of their programmed responses.... IQ tests designed for those having passed the box confining institutional one sided verbiage....
Experience has taught me that controversial threads such as these eventually get closed or deleted by the Mods, so to keep this it going as long as possible, please keep your comments civil. That means no "Religion is for idiots!" or "Scientists are going to hell!"-type comments.
Thanks.
---
Several studies have shown that there is a negative link between religiosity, IQ and academia. That is, the more intelligent and / or well-educated a person is, the less likely they are to be religious and vice-versa. Several arguments have been put forth to explain why this is, the most peopular being that people who have high IQs are better at critical thinking and therefore reject concepts which are based on intuition or cannot be emphirically tested.
Many studies looking at the link however have noted several things which may affect the results, including:
- The link between academia and religiosity is weaker than originally thought - several studies have found that people with high IQs rejected the concept of God long before they recieved any higher education:
- The demographics of the people these surveys were taken from (even in worldwide studies) were very similar - namely that they tend to be white, male and politically liberal or left-wing. The majority of studies were also conducted in Western nations:
Interestingly the same pattern (being white, male and left-wing) is seen among Western atheists and scientists in general.
---
- The correlations between IQ, religiosity and academia varies widely within the scientific world. For example, 41% of Biologists and 40% of physicists said they did not believe in God compared to 26% of Chemists and 27% of Political Scientists. Similarly, social scientists were more likely to say they had no doubts about God existance than natural scientists, with the exception of Chemists (source: religjournal.com Page 17, Table 3).
So what do you think? Is there is link between religiosity and intelligence? Or do the studies only relflect how religion and science correlate in the Western world? Why do you think certain sciences (such as Chemistry) have more religious people than others?
The brightest people in the world are Christians. It is the ones who think they are smart but are actually only above average who are non religious.
Of 10 highest IQ’s on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians: Examiner.com. | Eternal Vigilance