The Link Between IQ, Religiosity and Academic Subjects

[Notedstrangeperson]

Experience has taught me that controversial threads such as these eventually get closed or deleted by the Mods, so to keep this it going as long as possible, please keep your comments civil. That means no "Religion is for idiots!" or "Scientists are going to hell!"-type comments.

Thanks.
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Several studies have shown that there is a negative link between religiosity, IQ and academia. That is, the more intelligent and / or well-educated a person is, the less likely they are to be religious and vice-versa. Several arguments have been put forth to explain why this is, the most peopular being that people who have high IQs are better at critical thinking and therefore reject concepts which are based on intuition or cannot be emphirically tested.


Many studies looking at the link however have noted several things which may affect the results, including:

• The link between academia and religiosity is weaker than originally thought - several studies have found that people with high IQs rejected the concept of God long before they recieved any higher education:

The Terman cohort of the gifted, started in 1921 by Lewis Terman, a psychologist at Stanford University. (The cohort is still being followed.) In the study, Terman recruited more than 1,500 children whose IQ exceeded 135 at the age of 10. Two studies used this data, one conducted by Robin Sears at Columbia University in 1995 and the other by Michael McCullough at the University of Miami in 2005, and they found that “Termites,” as the gifted are called, were less religious when compared to the general public (source: arstechnica.com).

• The demographics of the people these surveys were taken from (even in worldwide studies) were very similar - namely that they tend to be white, male and politically liberal or left-wing. The majority of studies were also conducted in Western nations:

Zuckerman also warns that, despite there being thousands of participants overall, ranging among all ages, almost all of them belong to Western society. More than 87 percent of the participants were from the US, the UK, and Canada. So after controlling for other factors, they can only confidently show strong negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity among American Protestants. For Catholicism and Judaism, the correlation may be less negative (source: arstechnica.com).

Interestingly the same pattern (being white, male and left-wing) is seen among Western atheists and scientists in general.
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• The correlations between IQ, religiosity and academia varies widely within the scientific world. For example, 41% of Biologists and 40% of physicists said they did not believe in God compared to 26% of Chemists and 27% of Political Scientists. Similarly, social scientists were more likely to say they had no doubts about God existance than natural scientists, with the exception of Chemists (source: religjournal.com Page 17, Table 3).

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So what do you think? Is there is link between religiosity and intelligence? Or do the studies only relflect how religion and science correlate in the Western world? Why do you think certain sciences (such as Chemistry) have more religious people than others?

 

[biggles53]

The evidence is clear, but what should we do with it....?

My own view is that we should be encouraging ALL people, wealthy or poor, high IQ or low, to think rationally, to question skeptically and to think.....

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

please keep your comments civil. That means no "Religion is for idiots!" or "Scientists are going to hell!"-type comments.

If people did any one of those they would not be religious, to be religious in the face of such contradiction a person must want to be religious above all else, can anyone tell me that a Muslim who truly believes that Muhammad flew up to heaven on a winged horse has not had their brain damaged in some way?

Two comments in and I'm already having to remind people: add something to the discussion or don't comment.

 

[Styx87]

I think the point here is the underlying philosophy. It depends on which direction you approach it. Religion promotes a philosophy wherein one must accept everything that they're taught without question (by the church) and to reject all information that contradicts that. The moment you KNOW anything completely you block the mind from ever learning anything new about it.

Conversely on the science end people are taught never to accept any amount of information totally and to approach all new information with doubt. Understanding everything that you know tentatively allows a person to adjust their position whenever the growth of knowledge forces them to reassess any amount of information.

Rather than locking yourself into a paradigm and blocking out new information one should approach information without restraints whether or not you're religious. You can be religion and intelligent at the same time.

 

[lesliedellow]

Why do you think certain sciences (such as Chemistry) have more religious people than others?

That is slightly odd, because all of the high profile scientists I can think of, who are religious, are all either biologists or physicists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is slightly odd, because all of the high profile scientists I can think of, who are religious, are all either biologists or physicists.

Perhaps that is because most of the high profile scientists that you can think of are either biologists or physicists. I can't remember the source now but I seem to recall that physicists have the lowest percentage of belief in any god or gods.

 

[lesliedellow]

Perhaps that is because most of the high profile scientists that you can think of are either biologists or physicists. I can't remember the source now but I seem to recall that physicists have the lowest percentage of belief in any god or gods.

Then why does the conventional wisdom which reaches my ears say that physicists are the group of scientists most likely to be religious?

 

[Strathos]

I think it goes something like this:

- Kids are taught creationism
- Kids grow up, learn about science, discover that creationism doesn't hold up
- They figure if they were lied to about creationism, they were lied to about religion in general

Probably my number one problem with creationism, in fact.

 

[Hetta]

I know a lot of people who are involved in medicine, science and research, and while some are religious, others are not. It doesn't seem to make much difference to their abilities.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then why does the conventional wisdom which reaches my ears say that physicists are the group of scientists most likely to be religious?

What conventional wisdom?

Now I have seen the beliefs of scientists misrepresented. For example many theists try to claim that Einstein was a theist but at best you could call him an agnostic. He did not like the open the atheists of his time since they were rather extreme in pushing their beliefs.

I will try a quick Google search to see if I can find any evidence one way or another.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I finally found a link. It seems that within any reasonable measure the percentage of physicists that believe in a god is that same as that of biologists:

Bill Maz: How Many Scientists Believe in God?

"Disbelief in God by Academics


Discipline %

Physics 40.8

Chemistry 26.6

Biology 41.0
Overall 37.6



Sociology 34.0

Economics 31.7

Political Science 27.0

Psychology 33.0

Overall 31.2

"

A survey of this sort has a much higher margin of error than just one percent.

 

[Hetta]

I would guess that this is an American survey, I say that because most Americans are raised to believe in some form of Christianity so go on to further education as believers similar to Muslims, most Europeans do not go through this kind of indoctrination so at the first sign of reality and free thinking the little religion they might have goes out of the window.

I was born/raised in Europe with religion, as was everyone from my home country that I know. I was also born/raised in a capital city. I don't think that has anything to do with it really.

 

[Hetta]

I finally found a link. It seems that within any reasonable measure the percentage of physicists that believe in a god is that same as that of biologists:

Bill Maz: How Many Scientists Believe in God?

"Disbelief in God by Academics


Discipline %

Physics 40.8

Chemistry 26.6

Biology 41.0
Overall 37.6



Sociology 34.0

Economics 31.7

Political Science 27.0

Psychology 33.0

Overall 31.2

"

A survey of this sort has a much higher margin of error than just one percent.

So, approximately a third. And higher figures for the hard sciences than the social sciences. Huh. Interesting.

 

[lesliedellow]

What conventional wisdom?

That which I have heard repeatedly.

Now I have seen the beliefs of scientists misrepresented.

You can believe what you like.

 

[AV1611VET]

So what do you think? Is there is link between religiosity and intelligence? Or do the studies only relflect how religion and science correlate in the Western world? Why do you think certain sciences (such as Chemistry) have more religious people than others?

I can't speak for religions, per se, but a quick guess is that:

Intelligence caters to the brain; Christianity caters to the heart.

And as for why chemists are more religious: I don't know.

Perhaps working with chemicals generates a certain fear in the handlers and, as the saying goes:

There are no atheists in foxholes.

Again, I'm just guessing.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I can't speak for religions, per se, but a quick guess is that:

Intelligence caters to the brain; Christianity caters to the heart.

And as for why chemists are more religious: I don't know.

Perhaps working with chemicals generates a certain fear in the handlers and, as the saying goes:

There are no atheists in foxholes.

Again, I'm just guessing.

My guess would be that chemists might be more likely to be religions than, say, biologists because of exposure to the many odd chemistry patterns that some are inclined to think are more than mere coincidence, without the exposure to biology theories which challenge literal biblical interpretations.

Or it could just be a coincidence that the sample taken had more religious people than the reality, it happens.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

I think the point here is the underlying philosophy. It depends on which direction you approach it. Religion promotes a philosophy wherein one must accept everything that they're taught without question (by the church) and to reject all information that contradicts that. The moment you KNOW anything completely you block the mind from ever learning anything new about it.

I'm doubtful of that. The vast majority of creationists still attempt to back up their arguments using evidence, despite the fact most of the so-called evidence is either wrong or misleading. For example, rather than trying to ignore it or petend it doesn't exist, most creationists will argue that the famous "Lucy" was merely an ape.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

My guess would be that chemists might be more likely to be religions than, say, biologists because of exposure to the many odd chemistry patterns that some are inclined to think are more than mere coincidence, without the exposure to biology theories which challenge literal biblical interpretations.

Or it could just be a coincidence that the sample taken had more religious people than the reality, it happens.

My personal guess would be that, of the three natural sciences, chemistry is the only one which (as far as I know) has not had a discovery or theory that caused a huge science vs. religion debate. By contrast, physics has the big bang theory and biology has evolution.

 

[PsychoSarah]

My personal guess would be that, of the three natural sciences, chemistry is the only one which (as far as I know) has not had a discovery or theory that caused a huge science vs. religion debate. By contrast, physics has the big bang theory and biology has evolution.

That as well, although chemistry has a share in the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, which so many people incorrectly use when they argue for creationism it makes my head want to explode.

 

[PhantomGaze]

I think American Protestant culture has become very anti-intellectual, and I think that has a strong influence on the situation. Most Protestant church leadership seems strongly conservative, and like to downplay academic pursuits which can cause a lot of tension when students come to church wanting to sort through issues (if they're naive enough to think it's welcomed to begin with). It's a bad situation imho.

IIRC some of the studies that put atheists over most faiths also had them losing out in terms of IQ to Jews and Anglicans.

Either way, it doesn't mean all that much. There are studies that demonstrate vegetarians have higher IQs than those who eat meat. So what? They're averages. There are quite obviously very intelligent Christians as well as atheists, and there are very intelligent individuals who consume meat and very intelligent vegetarians. The only reason I can see for even bothering with this is because there are trolls out there who like to taunt people with it or have discussions on very uneven ground. Well... there might be another. Some people derive a sense of self-worth from being Atheists, and part of the "intelligent group" as they might think of it. So to some I guess this issue might mean a lot. I'd imagine they might bring it up often, or reference it in some way.