"The Left Has Given Up on Ordinary Americans"

[Valletta]

Indeed. I think there hasn't been honest discussion about class and ethnicity in the US in some time. For too long, white, upper-middle class people have been privileged above all other voices.

America is an extremely diverse country. The only difference now is that some people insist we stop pretending we are all a "melting pot" of homogeneity.

The difference today is that people are pushing diversity above excellence. For example, the kids in the poor neighborhoods with schools that are failing don't need diverse teachers, they need the best teachers. Our top performing students are being kept out of top universities because of their race.

 

[RoBo1988]

Yet your title reads "The Left has given up on ordinary Americans".
The articles you posted are just unsubstantiated biased personal opinion.

Batya Ungar-Sargon, a Newsweek editor, is the one quoted; she said the title of this thread, and it's also the article I shared, way back on page one of this thread.

She also says in the interview:
" I consider myself a left-wing populist. Routinely, people on the left would say that I’m a conservative and that the points I make are conservative talking points. I always laughed at this because, first of all, I don’t think ‘conservative’ is an insult. People expect you to act like somebody just called you fat."
and:
" Through the green movement, the elites have created what the left always accused the right of doing – they have created a value system that makes the difference between the billionaire class and the educated elites fungible. Both of these groups are on board with the idea of this apocalyptic vision. They agree that the most important thing is the climate, and that we’re all going to die if we don’t solve it."
and, of course:
"You can’t have a middle class without cheap, affordable fuel and energy. And climate activists don’t believe in cars, they don’t believe in trucks, they don’t believe in farming. They don’t believe in the jobs that we actually rely on to survive. They’ve essentially given up on America. They’re definitely not proud of America, they’re ashamed of it. They hate conservatives, religious people, Republicans, people who voted for Trump. To them, those people are anathema to the good life."

If this was an editorial/ article/ interview of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, etc. I wouldn't have bothered posting it- preaching to the choir. But here is someone who is a centrist liberal, doing some introspection; and I think it's good. Those who supported the previous President's policies are simply blown off as "racist", "racist", and of course, "racist", by the left; now someone from the left(Ms. Ungar-Sargon) actually has their eyes opened to what many on the right have been trying to say; and now it's time to kill the messenger.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Batya Ungar-Sargon, a Newsweek editor, is the one quoted; she said the title of this thread, and it's also the article I shared, way back on page one of this thread.

She also says in the interview:
" I consider myself a left-wing populist. Routinely, people on the left would say that I’m a conservative and that the points I make are conservative talking points. I always laughed at this because, first of all, I don’t think ‘conservative’ is an insult. People expect you to act like somebody just called you fat."
and:
" Through the green movement, the elites have created what the left always accused the right of doing – they have created a value system that makes the difference between the billionaire class and the educated elites fungible. Both of these groups are on board with the idea of this apocalyptic vision. They agree that the most important thing is the climate, and that we’re all going to die if we don’t solve it."
and, of course:
"You can’t have a middle class without cheap, affordable fuel and energy. And climate activists don’t believe in cars, they don’t believe in trucks, they don’t believe in farming. They don’t believe in the jobs that we actually rely on to survive. They’ve essentially given up on America. They’re definitely not proud of America, they’re ashamed of it. They hate conservatives, religious people, Republicans, people who voted for Trump. To them, those people are anathema to the good life."

If this was an editorial/ article/ interview of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, etc. I wouldn't have bothered posting it- preaching to the choir. But here is someone who is a centrist liberal, doing some introspection; and I think it's good. Those who supported the previous President's policies are simply blown off as "racist", "racist", and of course, "racist", by the left; now someone from the left(Ms. Ungar-Sargon) actually has their eyes opened to what many on the right have been trying to say; and now it's time to kill the messenger.

When she says her friends call her conservative, I suspect that her friends are correct. She may not be full-on Dittohead, but calling media workers “elites” and simping for Elon Musk are hardly indicative of the left-wing populism she claims to espouse. Maybe she used to be that, but it doesn’t sound like she still is.

 

[Joy]

MOD HAT ON

This Thread has Moved

From Current News & Events (Articles Required)

To The Junk Drawer

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[grasping the after wind]

When she says her friends call her conservative, I suspect that her friends are correct. She may not be full-on Dittohead, but calling media workers “elites” and simping for Elon Musk are hardly indicative of the left-wing populism she claims to espouse. Maybe she used to be that, but it doesn’t sound like she still is.

Or maybe she thinks for herself instead of parroting a partisan talking point. I don't know because I am not familiar with this woman, so I won't characterize her. Nor will I claim to know what she thinks or believes and claim that i can read her mind so i know she is being deceptive. I would think that a liberal-minded person that believes in the absolute right to self-identification would assume that if she says she is something that means she is exactly that.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Or maybe she thinks for herself instead of parroting a partisan talking point. I don't know because I am not familiar with this woman, so I won't characterize her. Nor will I claim to know what she thinks or believes and claim that i can read her mind so i know she is being deceptive. I would think that a liberal-minded person that believes in the absolute right to self-identification would assume that if she says she is something that means she is exactly that.

If she's trying to "think for herself," then she's doing a poor job of it, because parroting partisan talking points is exactly what she's doing. She's just working off a different set of talking points these days:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1628967086906114048

Nobody who scrolls through her twitter feed would come away with the impression that she's any sort of left-wing populist:

https://twitter.com/bungarsargon

That Democratic elites abandoned East Palestine is a Republican talking point. The bulk of her interviews recently have been with Fox. Her complaints about the elites are targeted exclusively (as far as I can see) at Democrats, while she completely ignores the wealthy conservatives who continually rebel against the sorts of labor and safety regulations that would help blue collar workers and mitigate the damage from industrial disasters. These aren't new issues - this has been part of the Dems' bread and butter for decades.

 

[FireDragon76]

If she's trying to "think for herself," then she's doing a poor job of it, because parroting partisan talking points is exactly what she's doing. She's just working off a different set of talking points these days:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1628967086906114048

Nobody who scrolls through her twitter feed would come away with the impression that she's any sort of left-wing populist:

https://twitter.com/bungarsargon

That Democratic elites abandoned East Palestine is a Republican talking point. The bulk of her interviews recently have been with Fox. Her complaints about the elites are targeted exclusively (as far as I can see) at Democrats, while she completely ignores the wealthy conservatives who continually rebel against the sorts of labor and safety regulations that would help blue collar workers and mitigate the damage from industrial disasters. These aren't new issues - this has been part of the Dems' bread and butter for decades.

Good grief.

Trump wasn't taking on the elites. He is one of the elites. They are simply falling for his grift.

 

[RDKirk]

I mean... What?!? Has anybody told Bernie Sanders about this? Between UBI, unionization efforts, welfare benefits, taxation, student debt, and a host of other issues, the left talks about class all the time. Saying that being on the left no longer means caring about class is like saying that being on the right no longer means caring about abortion. It's ludicrous. Who is shutting down discussions about class other than people on the right?

We should probably say "the DNC" rather than "the Left."

The DNC pointedly ignores Bernie Sanders, and those other issues are not its priorities. They'll put on a serious facial expression and nod their heads sympathetically if someone mentions those issues, but they have no intention of tackling them.

So, there is a big difference between how the Democrats fail to tackle class issues compared to how the Republicans seriously tackles abortion.

 

[iluvatar5150]

So, there is a big difference between how the Democrats fail to tackle class issues compared to how the Republicans seriously tackles abortion.

I think the bigger difference is in how those issues can be tackled. Republicans have tackled abortion at the state level via legislation in red states (only) and at the federal level through the courts (only). Democrats have tackled LGBTQ issues in roughly the same manner, mainly because abortion and LGTBQ issues have the potential to be tackled in those ways. A court just up and deciding that gay marriage is a protected right or that abortion isn't can, in one fell swoop, usher in a whole host of policy outcomes.

You can't do that with class. There is no court decision that's going to bring money and vibrancy to small rust belt towns. There is no long term legal strategy that's going to stem the tide of depopulation, brain drain, and shift towards an urban knowledge economy. If Dems don't sufficiently tackle these problems, it's because they're substantially harder and of a different nature. Dems at least try to address the material concerns, but that doesn't garner as many brownie points as pandering to culture war concerns like Republicans do.

 

[FireDragon76]

She's not a right-wing Republican, but from what I can gather, she's not a lib, either. She seems to be more in the newer camp of angry contrarians who like to adopt right-wing talking points and complain about the left while trying to convince themselves that they're not somewhere on the right.

They are more like ideological mercenaries out to advance their own noteriety, in the end. Half the reason that our political culture and discourse has become so toxic is from morally confused individuals like that kicking up a hornets nest and peddling BS.

They ARE ordinary Americans. We ARE ordinary Americans. Over half of the country votes for Democrats. Over 80% of the country lives in urban areas. If anybody is an outlier, it's rural conservatives.

Clever gerrymandering.

 

[RDKirk]

I think the bigger difference is in how those issues can be tackled. Republicans have tackled abortion at the state level via legislation in red states (only) and at the federal level through the courts (only). Democrats have tackled LGBTQ issues in roughly the same manner, mainly because abortion and LGTBQ issues have the potential to be tackled in those ways. A court just up and deciding that gay marriage is a protected right or that abortion isn't can, in one fell swoop, usher in a whole host of policy outcomes.

You can't do that with class. There is no court decision that's going to bring money and vibrancy to small rust belt towns. There is no long term legal strategy that's going to stem the tide of depopulation, brain drain, and shift towards an urban knowledge economy. If Dems don't sufficiently tackle these problems, it's because they're substantially harder and of a different nature. Dems at least try to address the material concerns, but that doesn't garner as many brownie points as pandering to culture war concerns like Republicans do.

You were the one who first compared how the Democrats handle class with how the Republicans handle abortion.

Okay, I'll let you backpedal from that.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You were the one who first compared how the Democrats handle class with how the Republicans handle abortion.

Okay, I'll let you backpedal from that.

No, what I said was, “Saying that being on the left no longer means caring about class is like saying that being on the right no longer means caring about abortion.”

I didn’t say anything about the efficacy of their efforts. I was addressing the claim by the author of the OP article that it’s essentially taboo on the left to even talk about class. If she had merely said that Dems haven’t been getting it done, I would have agreed with her.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think the bigger difference is in how those issues can be tackled. Republicans have tackled abortion at the state level via legislation in red states (only) and at the federal level through the courts (only). Democrats have tackled LGBTQ issues in roughly the same manner, mainly because abortion and LGTBQ issues have the potential to be tackled in those ways. A court just up and deciding that gay marriage is a protected right or that abortion isn't can, in one fell swoop, usher in a whole host of policy outcomes.

You can't do that with class. There is no court decision that's going to bring money and vibrancy to small rust belt towns. There is no long term legal strategy that's going to stem the tide of depopulation, brain drain, and shift towards an urban knowledge economy. If Dems don't sufficiently tackle these problems, it's because they're substantially harder and of a different nature. Dems at least try to address the material concerns, but that doesn't garner as many brownie points as pandering to culture war concerns like Republicans do.

I don't see it as so intractable, even if it's difficult and complicated.

If anything, Democrats have done a better job at trying to soften the blow to the Rust Belt in terms of policies. Whereas Republicans have played up anti-elitist demagoguery and grievance all the while their actual policies do little to ameliorate the real problems people in rural areas face.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I don't see it as so intractable, even if it's difficult and complicated.

If anything, Democrats have done a better job at trying to soften the blow to the Rust Belt in terms of policies. Whereas Republicans have played up anti-elitist demagoguery and grievance all the while their actual policies do little to ameliorate the real problems people in rural areas face.

Sure, sure. I'm from central NY, which is the upper end of the rust belt. Whenever I go home, there's no end to the complaining I hear about the libs in Albany and/or NYC with their high taxes and bail reform, and all I can wonder is if folks would prefer things be more like Alabama.

 

[Danthemailman]

Letter from a Military Mom, a Grandmother, and an American Patriot Who Loves this Country and Sees Where We Are Heading

A Letter from a Military Mom, a Grandmother, and an American Patriot Who Loves this Country and Sees Where We Are Heading | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

One of our readers, a military mom and friend of TGP sent us this message to share. We hope you have a moment to read this: Over the last two years I have watched my country being taken over by the most incompetent, dangerous and reckless morons ever to take up space in our most sacred place in...

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[iluvatar5150]

Letter from a Military Mom, a Grandmother, and an American Patriot Who Loves this Country and Sees Where We Are Heading

A Letter from a Military Mom, a Grandmother, and an American Patriot Who Loves this Country and Sees Where We Are Heading | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

One of our readers, a military mom and friend of TGP sent us this message to share. We hope you have a moment to read this: Over the last two years I have watched my country being taken over by the most incompetent, dangerous and reckless morons ever to take up space in our most sacred place in...

www.thegatewaypundit.com

lol. There’s so much wrong there. Aside from the straight up lunacy and idolatry of Trump, I’d bet $5 that somebody on the TGP staff wrote it, or at least HEAVILY edited it. I’ve never seen anybody write something so grammatically correct and well-composed, yet so completely unhinged.

 

[RoBo1988]

Sure, sure. I'm from central NY, which is the upper end of the rust belt. Whenever I go home, there's no end to the complaining I hear about the libs in Albany and/or NYC with their high taxes and bail reform, and all I can wonder is if folks would prefer things be more like Alabama.

My wife and I took the long way back home from Niagara Falls via NY route 5, along Lake Erie last summer. We stopped in Dunkirk NY, where they were having a beach party. They were friendly people, they almost, seemed... kinda ...MAGA Now I might know why: Republicans Win Big in Chautauqua County, Southwestern New York
(jk)

When your income is X, and your state, and federal governments demand X+Y in taxes, and no visible benefit to them personally, maybe you'd complain, too.
If you were elected Governor of Alabama (which is also a great place- I've been to Gulf Shores, and Mobile, too) with a super-majority Democrat Congress, how would you legislate, to convert it into the liberal paradise that it should be?

 

[Paidiske]

If you were elected Governor of Alabama (which is also a great place- I've been to Gulf Shores, and Mobile, too) with a super-majority Democrat Congress, how would you legislate, to convert it into the liberal paradise that it should be?

Well, I'm not in America, and I'm not sure "liberal paradise" is what I'd be aiming for.

But having a look at some basics, like health statistics and leading causes of death, I'd probably want to take a serious look at something like this and see how much of it can be implemented: https://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/action_plan/pdfs/action_plan_full.pdf

 

[RoBo1988]

Well, I'm not in America, and I'm not sure "liberal paradise" is what I'd be aiming for.

But having a look at some basics, like health statistics and leading causes of death, I'd probably want to take a serious look at something like this and see how much of it can be implemented: https://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/action_plan/pdfs/action_plan_full.pdf

This is the quote I was responding to:

Whenever I go home, there's no end to the complaining I hear about the libs in Albany and/or NYC with their high taxes and bail reform, and all I can wonder is if folks would prefer things be more like Alabama.

As if the state of Alabama is so terrible. Alabama tends to vote conservative, so in some people's view: Conservative=Evil.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This is the quote I was responding to:

As if the state of Alabama is so terrible. Alabama tends to vote conservative, so in some people's view: Conservative=Evil.

I don't think conservative == evil. I do, however, think that, in a lot of cases, conservative == misguided.