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"The Left Has Given Up on Ordinary Americans"

Tuur

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I don't make pronouns a political issue. The Left is made up of a wide variety of viewpoints. Generalizing and insulting is pathetic.

So you can't define elitist?
Basically, an elitist thinks they're above their fellowman. I remember one who was shocked that I had a reproduction of an historic map. A normal person might be surprised; an elitist would ask "What are you doing with it?" as this one did, as though I should have asked for their permission.

You've really never met one?
 
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RoBo1988

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So why does the author of the OP article conflate the wealthy at Davos with somebody making $100k in Manhattan? They’re not remotely the same.
Oh yeah, think the folks a Davos wasting fuel, flying private jets, to lecture us on killing Mother Nature-"How dare you!"
Or Al Gore and his 20,000 kilowatt mansion lecturing Americans, about global warming/ cooling/ climate change/ blah blah blah, and hocking "carbon credits" for fun and his profit!
 
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iluvatar5150

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Basically, an elitist thinks they're above their fellowman. I remember one who was shocked that I had a reproduction of an historic map. A normal person might be surprised; an elitist would ask "What are you doing with it?" as this one did, as though I should have asked for their permission.

You've really never met one?

That’s not a great definition- I’ve met loads of conservative populists who think they’re above liberals because of… reasons. This whole notion of “ordinary Americans” is one manifestation of it.

Oh yeah, think the folks a Davos wasting fuel, flying private jets, to lecture us on killing Mother Nature-"How dare you!"
Or Al Gore and his 20,000 kilowatt mansion lecturing Americans, about global warming/ cooling/ climate change/ blah blah blah, and hocking "carbon credits" for fun and his profit!

Pointing out the hypocrisy of the wealthy is fine. I’m pointing out the fallacy of her extending the definition of “elite” well into the middle class.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Basically, an elitist thinks they're above their fellowman. I remember one who was shocked that I had a reproduction of an historic map. A normal person might be surprised; an elitist would ask "What are you doing with it?" as this one did, as though I should have asked for their permission.

You've really never met one?
So you divide people as being 'elitist' vs an ordinary American and from your comment in post #9, ordinary Americans are blue collar workers with your political views. Everyone you meet slide into that narrow definition of elitist vs ordinary American?
 
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FreeinChrist

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Ms. Ungar-Sargon, from the article: "You’re part of the elites, you’re in the top 20 per cent. You’ve taken a bigger share of the economic pie and, as a result, you believe you deserve a bigger share of the political pie. That’s really what it comes down to."
That sounds like Republicans to me.
 
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FreeinChrist

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It’s $24k, but she has two of them.
I think that is her choice. I guess some on the Right think she can't have a freezer worth more that $1000? Kind of controlling of them.
 
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iluvatar5150

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That sounds like Republicans to me.

Seriously. There’s a whole strain of conservative ideology that dislikes pure democracy, preferring instead republicanism and ceding control to elites.
 
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Valletta

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I think a lot of discussions could be made easier if we all accepted the fact that divine or natural rights are nonsense, and that any rights we have are those we’ve granted to ourselves.
God gave you the freedom to disagree with all of those who signed our Declaration of Independence and the rest of us who believe that everything we have comes from God. God endowed us with rights, that which is right, and also we can use those rights, those gifts, as God intended or not.
 
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Valletta

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Seriously. There’s a whole strain of conservative ideology that dislikes pure democracy, preferring instead republicanism and ceding control to elites.
I never heard anyone before claim such a "strain" of conservative ideology, ceding control to elites is the opposite of conservatism.
 
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FireDragon76

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What I have read in your replies is not much different than that I heard from segregationists back in the day. They thought they were right, too. I don't think many of them were convinced otherwise.

Poisoning the well? Projecting?

You are the one that seemed to be focused on race. I was focusing on ethnicity and religion, primarily, in critiquing the melting pot. But the melting pot idea also involved race as well, with racial minorities expected to look like, and imitate, white people as much as possible (straightening their hair, altering their facial features, etc.).

Here's something else you can ignore: Culture has zero to do with the color of one's skin.

It has alot to do with the color of ones skin in the real world that people actually live in.
 
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Tuur

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So you divide people as being 'elitist' vs an ordinary American and from your comment in post #9, ordinary Americans are blue collar workers with your political views. Everyone you meet slide into that narrow definition of elitist vs ordinary American?
Seems that you've done likewise.
 
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iluvatar5150

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God gave you the freedom to disagree with all of those who signed our Declaration of Independence and the rest of us who believe that everything we have comes from God. God endowed us with rights, that which is right, and also we can use those rights, those gifts, as God intended or not.

God endowed you with the capacity for free will (though even some sects of Christianity would disagree with that). Nowhere in the Bible does God grant you anything remotely resembling a political or legal right. The framers weren't even attempting to describe the literal Christian God; they were using divine vocabulary to describe a concept closure to what we describe as "nature." Trying to claim that legal rights come from the God of Christianity is heretical.

I never heard anyone before claim such a "strain" of conservative ideology, ceding control to elites is the opposite of conservatism.
Then perhaps you ought to read up on conservative political theory. Ceding control to elites is antithetical to populism, but populism is not synonymous with conservatism, even though modern American conservatism has been nearly overrun by its populist wing. "A republic, not a democracy" has been a mantra among the Right since at least 1964. Here's a Heritage Foundation paper on the subject:
 
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FreeinChrist

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"The way the elites think of the economy is very related to green ideology. They picture an economy in which the top 20 per cent keeps making over $100,000 a year and lives in nice neighbourhoods and nice cities. All production is done in China. All service-industry jobs are performed by slave-wage Venezuelans brought in by cartels. And everybody making under $100,000 a year – who used to be the working class – is on universal basic income. That’s the view that a lot of so-called progressives consciously or unconsciously have of their ideal economic system."- Batya Ungar-Sargon, on how the working classes are being sacrificed to elite virtue-signalling


Ms. Ungar-Sargon is not a right-wing Republican. She is an editor at Newsweek, also not a right-wing publication. From what I see in the political class, she is correct, and it's not necessarily just a Democrat view. Many Republicans have sold us down the river as well.
If any group turned on "ordinary Americans", it was the Republicans. They are the ones that supported Reagan's 'trickle down economics' where the rich got big tax breaks with the expectation it would cause job growth. What a failure that was. No hedge manager has done a thing for 'ordinary Americans'. Trump promised manufacturing jobs. Didn't really happen.

In contrast, in the last 2 years we have seen 12 million jobs created and have record low unemployment,

And:

Air India orders record 470 Boeing and Airbus aircrafts - NPR

That should create 1 million jobs

Ford to build $3.5 billion electric vehicle battery plant in ...

This is expected to create 2,500 jobs

Texas Instruments selects Lehi, Utah, for its next 300 ...

It is a semi-conductor plant that will create lots and lots of jobs.

GM to invest $650 million in Nevada lithium mine - C&EN

That is expected to create 1,500 jobs

Rivian to build electric vehicle plant in Georgia - sources

This should create about 8,000 jobs


Passing the Infrastructure Investment & Jobs Act helped create jobs and encourage manufacturing. The Chips & Science Act did as well.
Dems helped 'ordinary Americans' by capping insulin costs and passing the PACT act to help sick veterans - who qualify as 'ordinary Americans'.

The Dems brought us the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) which helped many 'ordinary Americans' get healthcare they couldn't afford before.

What have the Republicans done? As stated before, they lowered taxes for the rich which made the deficit worse. Under various Republican governors, states passed 'right to work' laws to hurt unions, and restricted what public services unions could do. Folks forget that unions are the reason we went from 6 day a week/12 hour a day work shifts to 5 day/40 hour work weeks. I met one of the leaders in the nursing union in Michigan who organized nurses to protest the 6 day/12 hour work week. She is gone now. Initially she lost her job but got rehired once the union was in place. Unions are made up of ordinary Americans, many of whom are blue collar, and fight for the worker.


So I think the article is lacking.
 
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iluvatar5150

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If any group turned on "ordinary Americans", it was the Republicans. They are the ones that supported Reagan's 'trickle down economics' where the rich got big tax breaks with the expectation it would cause job growth. What a failure that was. No hedge manager has done a thing for 'ordinary Americans'. Trump promised manufacturing jobs. Didn't really happen.

In contrast, in the last 2 years we have seen 12 million jobs created and have record low unemployment,

And:

Air India orders record 470 Boeing and Airbus aircrafts - NPR

That should create 1 million jobs

Ford to build $3.5 billion electric vehicle battery plant in ...

This is expected to create 2,500 jobs

Texas Instruments selects Lehi, Utah, for its next 300 ...

It is a semi-conductor plant that will create lots and lots of jobs.

GM to invest $650 million in Nevada lithium mine - C&EN

That is expected to create 1,500 jobs

Rivian to build electric vehicle plant in Georgia - sources

This should create about 8,000 jobs


Passing the Infrastructure Investment & Jobs Act helped create jobs and encourage manufacturing. The Chips & Science Act did as well.
Dems helped 'ordinary Americans' by capping insulin costs and passing the PACT act to help sick veterans - who qualify as 'ordinary Americans'.

The Dems brought us the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) which helped many 'ordinary Americans' get healthcare they couldn't afford before.

What have the Republicans done? As stated before, they lowered taxes for the rich which made the deficit worse. Under various Republican governors, states passed 'right to work' laws to hurt unions, and restricted what public services unions could do. Folks forget that unions are the reason we went from 6 day a week/12 hour a day work shifts to 5 day/40 hour work weeks. I met one of the leaders in the nursing union in Michigan who organized nurses to protest the 6 day/12 hour work week. She is gone now. Initially she lost her job but got rehired once the union was in place. Unions are made up of ordinary Americans, many of whom are blue collar, and fight for the worker.


So I think the article is lacking.
Republicans also fought the Medicaid expansion that would’ve helped the working poor, incentivized work, and mostly been paid for by the federal government instead of the states.
 
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RoBo1988

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That sounds like Republicans to me.
Billionaire Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, is also the owner of the Washington Post. He is very far from a Republican. Jack Dorsey, formerly of Twitter- Left-wing; Mark Zuckerburg, Facebook- Left wing. The $50,000...er, two $24,000 freezer owner, Nancy Pelosi, a "public servant" is worth $120 million. Not bad for a $174,000 a year salary!
 
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Valletta

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Billionaire Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, is also the owner of the Washington Post. He is very far from a Republican. Jack Dorsey, formerly of Twitter- Left-wing; Mark Zuckerburg, Facebook- Left wing. The $50,000...er, two $24,000 freezer owner, Nancy Pelosi, a "public servant" is worth $120 million. Not bad for a $174,000 a year salary!
Nancy had such an advantage for her family buying stocks, she pretty much knew what legislation would pass and what would not.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Biillionaire Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, is also the owner of the Washington Post. He is very far from a Republican. Jack Dorsey, formerly of Twitter- Left-wing; Mark Zuckerburg, Facebook- Left wing. The $50,000...er, two $24,000 freezer owner, Nancy Pelosi, a "public servant" is worth $120 million. Not bad for a $174,000 a year salary!
Bezos is no liberal at all. Neither is Zuckerberg. Both would want the big tax break for them and want to make more money.
Nancy Pelosi married a venture capitolist and real estate tycoon. Yes, they have quite a bit. Yet she worked to get Obamacare passed which really helped those without health insurance and voted for many things that help the poor and middle class.

Talk about rich in congress, Rick Scott is really wealthy. . He is worth about $260 million. Romney is up there - $300 million. And wow, check out some of the rich Republican donors from 2022:
Hedge fund tycoon Kenneth Griffin donated $18.5 million
Patrick Ryan - $10 mil
private equity mogul Steven Schwarzman - $10 mil
casino heiress Miriam Adelson. - $10 mil
multi-billionaire Timothy Mellon (banking heir) - $10 mil

and that was just a tip of the iceberg. I don't care how much their freezers are worth .

so what's your point?
 
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RoBo1988

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so what's your point?
You wanted to know who fancied themselves as "the elite". You're welcome to include your list of Republicans as well - I previously said it included those on the right, too.
 
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FreeinChrist

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You wanted to know who fancied themselves as "the elite". You're welcome to include your list of Republicans as well - I previously said it included those on the right, too.
Yet your title reads "The Left has given up on ordinary Americans".
The articles you posted are just unsubstantiated biased personal opinion.
 
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