"The Left Has Given Up on Ordinary Americans"

[Tuur]

Indeed. I think there hasn't been honest discussion about class and ethnicity in the US in some time. For too long, white, upper-middle class people have been privileged above all other voices.

America is an extremely diverse country. The only difference now is that some people insist we stop pretending we are all a "melting pot" of homogeneity.

This is absolutely incredible. The melting pot you deride is diversity. All who come to America adds something, with the final result a mixture of all. What today is called "diversity" is division, division no different than the days of segregation, division fostered, now as then, by those who use it for their own political advantage. What today is called diversity I once saw called "separate but equal."

I don't think anyone wants to return to that.

 

[FireDragon76]

This is absolutely incredible. The melting pot you deride is diversity. All who come to America adds something, with the final result a mixture of all. What today is called "diversity" is division, division no different than the days of segregation, division fostered, now as then, by those who use it for their own political advantage. What today is called diversity I once saw called "separate but equal."

I don't think anyone wants to return to that.

The melting pot was not about genuine diversity, but assimilation into white, upper-middle class Protestant values.

 

[ralliann]

A refreshing article. "Elitism" sums it up.

AKA "Marxism", "Communism", etc.

 

[ralliann]

The melting pot was not about genuine diversity, but assimilation into white, upper-middle class Protestant values.

Really. Our constitution says that?

 

[FireDragon76]

Really. Our constitution says that?

It doesn't have to. The ideal of the melting pot, and the associated notion of "model minorities", was used to assert cultural hegemony by one ethnic group over all others. It's the kind of attitude where you could eat spaghetti or pizza from such "exotic" places as Italy, all the while you thought Catholics were untrusworthy Papists (which did happen, Norman Vincente Peale of all people preached that the election of John Kennedy was an existential threat to America, because he was Catholic), or that Japanese Americans were a "model minority" as long as they disguised their religions as something they weren't, and gave their kids "Bible" names, even if it had nothing to do with their religious beliefs (that actually did happen for many years, that's why the late Senator Daniel Inouye was named "Daniel", even though he was a Buddhist).

 

[Arcangl86]

Really. Our constitution says that?

The term "melting pot" isn't a Constitutional concept, so no.

 

[ralliann]

It doesn't have to.

It seems what you say following, The constitution does not have to say that IF people are allowed to ignore and violate it?

The ideal of the melting pot, and the associated notion of "model minorities", was used to assert cultural hegemony by one ethnic group over all others.

In violation of the constitution. As long as the ruling class allow violation of law these can happen and will. Just like we are seeing today. Those who want equity are creating "model Minorities"

It's the kind of attitude where you could eat spaghetti or pizza all the while you thought Catholics were untrusworthy Papists (which did happen, Norman Vincente Peale of all people preached that the election of John Kennedy was an existential threat to America, because he was Catholic), or that Japanese Americans were a "model minority" as long as they disguised their religions as something they weren't, and gave their kids "Bible" names, even if it had nothing to do with their religious beliefs (that actually did happen for many years, that's why the late Senator Daniel Inouye was named "Daniel", even though he was a Buddhist).

Yet, Kennedy was elected, and imprisoning the Japanese was a violation of the constitution, in the very same manner that is being done today.

 

[ralliann]

The term "melting pot" isn't a Constitutional concept, so no.

Sure it is. All men created equal, inalienable rights equal. See? God given = God gave,not man. Man has no right to take away. Even atheists should love that.

 

[ralliann]

Us ordinary Americans have ordinary jobs, make ordinary wages, and usually live ordinary lives. Most of us are "blue collar" workers. We aren't obsessed with pronouns, know what men and women are, and think you should judge a person by their own deeds and not those of their ancestors or by the color of their skin. Ordinary American think you should have a say in the education of their children.

Now, which of these does today's Left support?

Those of us who have a good life under Capitalism, and don't want Socialism, Communism, Marxism, to attempt to solve any lack of perfection under it.. It is not perfect, but better than other systems.

 

[Arcangl86]

Sure it is. All men created equal, inalienable rights equal. See? God given = God gave,not man. Man has no right to take away. Even atheists should love that.

The Declaration of Independence is a philosophical document, not a legal one. It is also not the Constitution. Also. again this has nothing to use with the "melting pot" which only started to be used a little more then a century ago.

 

[FireDragon76]

Those of us who have a good life under Capitalism, and don't want Socialism, Communism, Marxism, to attempt to solve any lack of perfection under it.. It is not perfect, but better than other systems.

There's the rub... plenty of people don't have particularly good lives under "Capitalism".

 

[ralliann]

The Declaration of Independence is a philosophical document, not a legal one. It is also not the Constitution. Also. again this has nothing to use with the "melting pot" which only started to be used a little more then a century ago.

All the bill of rights etc. all uphold the constitution. They are not opposed to it. Though people use those to try.

 

[ralliann]

There's the rub... plenty of people don't have particularly good lives under "Capitalism".

Yep it is the rub. Some want Capitalism gone. They want another system.
No system is perfect. Plenty of people have suffered immensely under Communism, Socialism as well. All the division of class, race, etc. Is really for many just a tactic. I don't mind discussions on systems of Government. It is the tactics used that cause tons of problems

 

[FireDragon76]

Yep it is the rub. Some want Capitalism gone. They want another system.
No system is perfect. Plenty of people have suffered immensely under Communism, Socialism as well. All the division of class, race, etc. Is really for many just a tactic. I don't mind discussions on systems of Government. It is the tactics used that cause tons of problems

Those are all potentially false dichotomies. What many people are simply asking for is a system where more than a few people get more than just the crumbs off the table, they get a seat at the table in the first place.

 

[ralliann]

Those are all potentially false dichotomies.

Yep, the tactics......

What many people are simply asking for is a system where more than a few people get more than just the crumbs off the table, they get a seat at the table in the first place.

Then present it, instead of creating division and animosity to down right violence. As I said it is the tactics. That seem at this point to be necessary? Because it is constantly used, instead of plain discussion. Getting crumbs happen more and more because of them.

 

[Valletta]

The Declaration of Independence is a philosophical document, not a legal one. It is also not the Constitution. Also. again this has nothing to use with the "melting pot" which only started to be used a little more then a century ago.

The Declaration is the founding document of our country. That recognition that our rights come from God sets us apart in principle from other nations.

 

[ralliann]

The Declaration is the founding document of our country. That recognition that our rights come from God sets us apart in principle from other nations.

Why would anyone dislike this idea? Don't believe there is a God? Our declaration should be a great comfort to them. Knowing we religiously believe these good things belong to all men, and we mere humans cannot change them.

 

[Yarddog]

This is absolutely incredible. The melting pot you deride is diversity. All who come to America adds something, with the final result a mixture of all. What today is called "diversity" is division, division no different than the days of segregation, division fostered, now as then, by those who use it for their own political advantage. What today is called diversity I once saw called "separate but equal."

I don't think anyone wants to return to that.

Diversity becomes division because certain people do not respect other people's right to be different. This is not just a left, right, or middle problem because some on all sides are guilty.

We don't have to agree with others but we should respect their rights to be individuals with equal rights.

 

[Tuur]

The melting pot was not about genuine diversity, but assimilation into white, upper-middle class Protestant values.

Interesting: this is the second time you specifically mentioned "whites" in a disparaging manner.

 

[rturner76]

"Two parties by day, one big party at night"

That is a very apt way to describe the situation. The "night" activities are equally a source of plunder for politicians.

I agree. However, neither Team Blue or Team Red want that. They made the "mistake" of allowing Ross Perot into the debates. Never again.

This is also true in my estimation. There is really no difference between the two except for what they pay lip service to. Still, I wonder why my conscience won't usually let me vote for the "other" side. I will cross the line when someone appears to have common sense and is willing to compromise in order to move forward. There is no way I would vote for what appears to be an idiotic candidate or an inflexible extremist. THere is so much extremism in the media that send the message of "vote for the wrong party and you are morally bankrupt. I don't like the optics and it makes me wish the two-party system would pass away so there to be more choices. However they seem to have gained a monopoly on the system, that's why it really is one party.