The latter Days: The type of the latter days

[5thKingdom]

This is the verse you have to prove is false:
Re:13:5:
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;
and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Please include the verses that mark the beginning and end of that time period.

Sir... you continue to pretend that Rev 13:5 is the ONLY place where the DURATION of the Fourth Beast is shown
(not to mention you intentionally ignore the 2300 day Abomination of the Fourth Beast... much longer than 42 months)


I have shown you these verses before...
try to HARMONIZE Rev 13 with these other passages talking about the DURATION of the Fourth Beast


The Last Kingdom before the Lord's Return - consisting of "Ten Virgins" and "Ten Kings" and "Ten Horns",
these same people are shown in other passages (by many different names) and each passage must be harmonized to have Truth.
Below is a (partial) list of Biblical names given – to represent the people living during Daniel's Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven".


The "Kingdom" which the Anti-Christ "obtains with flatteries" [Dan 11]

The "Mighty and Holy People" who are "destroyed" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

The "Sanctuary and Host" that are "trodden under foot" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for 42 months/3.5 years [Rev 11]

The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" (the Anti-Christ's hand) for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]

The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]

The "Woman" which is hidden from the face of the "serpent" for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]

The "Witnesses" which are "overcome" and "killed" by Satan for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]

The "Kingdom" which is "overflown" and "broken" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 11]

The "Host and the Stars" that are "cast down" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Sir, the Revelation Beast (Great Tribulation) is NOT 42 months.


It is shown as 3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and 3.5 years (42 mos)
and 3.5 "watches of the night".


In fact your theory is DESTROYED by the fact that the "Abomination of Desolation"
occurring in the Fourth Beast continues for 2300 LITERAL DAY (literally "evenings/mornings")
and THAT ALONE represents almost 6.5 years.


Dan 8:13-14
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me,
Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


.

The Great Tribulation is the people in hell: Trumps 1-6 are known as 'tribulation in the latter days;
De:4:29-31:
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Tribulation for believers end the moment the two witnesses are resurrected, the 7 vials that Jesus pours out is much greater that what came with the first 6 trumps
7 vial that are the 3rd woe, Jesus is the author:
M't:24:21:
For then shall be great tribulation,
such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time,
no,
nor ever shall be.

Re:2:22:
Behold,
I will cast her into a bed,
and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation,
except they repent of their deeds.

Gentiles are judged by the 3rd woe as it is all of the 7 vials:
Zec:13:8-9:
And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land,
saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name,
and I will hear them:
I will say,
It is my people:
and they shall say,
The LORD is my God.

The ones killed by the 7 vials are saved by the end of the GWT event. So are the 1/3 of mankind the 200M angelic horsemen kill. They would not be the Chitch Members or any of the 144,000 as they are taken to a safe place:

Re:12:13-16:
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness,
into her place,
where she is nourished for a time,
and times,
and half a time,
from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman,
and the earth opened her mouth,
and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Would these two groups that are killed in this manner and then left awake, like Jonah, say they have experienced the greatest tribulation found in the whole of the Bible?

Isa:56:9-12:
All ye beasts of the field,
come to devour,
yea,
all ye beasts in the forest.
His watchmen are blind:
they are all ignorant,
they are all dumb dogs,
they cannot bark;
sleeping,
lying down, l
oving to slumber.
Yea,
they are greedy dogs which can never have enough,
and they are shepherds that cannot understand:
they all look to their own way,
every one for his gain, from his quarter.
Come ye,
say they,
I will fetch wine,
and we will fill ourselves with strong drink;
and to morrow shall be as this day,
and much more abundant.

Jer:25:34-38:
Howl,
ye shepherds,
and cry;
and wallow yourselves in the ashes,
ye principal of the flock:
for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished;
and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
And the shepherds shall have no way to flee,
nor the principal of the flock to escape.
A voice of the cry of the shepherds,
and an howling of the principal of the flock,
shall be heard:
for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.
And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
He hath forsaken his covert,
as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor,
and because of his fierce anger.


Referncing the 3rd woe only:
Trumps 1-6, which includes the whole of the 1st two woes that will come on the inhabitants of the earth:
M't:24:29:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[DavidPT]

No... you do not understand the A-Millennial position at all.


The A-Millennial position is that the 1000 year period when the Saints "lived and reigned with Christ"
is DURING the (3rd) Christian Kingdom during the Great Commission of the Church Age when
all of "His Sheep" are found and saved. Until the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved) Rev 7:1-3


You are completely confused
if you imagine the A-Millennial position places the "Little Season" AFTER Rev 19:20


I find it amazing that you do not even understand the A-Millennial position...
when you are arguing against it?


/

The Amils I'm mostly familiar with, such as SpiritualJew, SovereignGrace, undoubtedly don't place satan's little season after Revelation 19:20 nor have I ever thought they do, nor have I ever said they do. You OTOH insist that satan's little season follows after that of the beast being given to the burning flame(Daniel 7:11), where you then agree that that is meaning Revelation 19:20, and then you insist Daniel 7:12, a season and a time, this is meaning satan's little season, and that it is meaning after the beast is given to the burning flame. How does that not equal that satan's little season is after Revelation 19:20? Per the following 4 events, what chronological order do you place them in? I don't need a commentary about it, I simply just want to know what order you place these events in.

1) the 2nd coming

2) satan's little season(Apparently meaning Daniel 7:12 to you)

3) Daniel 7:11, also meaning Revelation 19:20 to you

4) the thousand years

The Amils I'm most familiar with on this site, unlike you, none of them take Daniel 7:12 to be involving satan's little season. They see that verse as parenthetical, that it explains what happened to the previous beasts earlier on in history. I do not agree with that interpretation, yet, that is how they interpret it, though. Which then means I understand their view like such, meaning chronologically. First 4) then 2) then 1) then 3)


As to your view, based on what you have stated in other posts elsewhere, I understand your view like such, meaning chronologically. First 4) then 3) then 2) then 1). If that is incorrect, why do you keep insisting that Daniel 7:12 is meaning satan's little season, and that it is meaning after Daniel 7:11 is fulfilled first? The problem is not, that I don't understand Amil so much, the problem is that I don't understand your version of it since none of these other Amils apply satan's little season to Daniel 7:l2 nor do they agree that Daniel 7:12 is even meaning after verse 11 is fulfilled.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Apparently you cannot READ.


Here is what I posted... the Bible talks about the DURATION of the Fourth Kingdom in MANY VERSES...
you pretend it is only ONE VERSE... that is just you pretending. And now you embarrass yourself
by intentionally ignoring contradictory passages.


Sir, the Revelation Beast (Great Tribulation) is NOT 42 months.


It is shown as 3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and 3.5 years (42 mos)
and 3.5 "watches of the night".


In fact your theory is DESTROYED by the fact that the "Abomination of Desolation"
occurring in the Fourth Beast continues for 2300 LITERAL DAY (literally "evenings/mornings")
and THAT ALONE represents almost 6.5 years.


Dan 8:13-14
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me,
Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


/

Da:8 is about the brass kingdom (which includes all of the 70 weeks verses) until the last verse in which it is referencing the Beast killing the two witnesses for 3 1/2 days.
The little horn (not as important as Greece, even though Rome's rule over Jerusalem was 500 full years and Greece was about 1 year before Alex died) The brass has to last until the iron begins. Iron stands for the 'sons of God' from Ge:6.

The iron part is only the last few verses that are referencing the kings at the beginning of Da:11. The 42 months end at Da:11:31, The next verse is about the witness of the two witnesses, that includes Satan destruction with the 7 vials as the last verse in Da:11, th epassage ends in Da:12:3 as those verses are about the resurrections from Re:20:4.

After the 7 vials are done the land is void of life, the 7 year cleanup is needed before the land is clean;
Eze:39:7-10:
So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel;
and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more:
and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD,
the Holy One in Israel.
Behold,
it is come,
and it is done,
saith the Lord GOD;
this is the day whereof I have spoken.
And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth,
and shall set on fire and burn the weapons,
both the shields and the bucklers,
the bows and the arrows,
and the handstaves,
and the spears,
and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
So that they shall take no wood out of the field,
neither cut down any out of the forests;
for they shall burn the weapons with fire:
and they shall spoil those that spoiled them,
and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

That is 6.3 years and in time from the 7 months and you have the number you are referencing.

The abomination is Satan sitting on a phase throne claiming to be God:
Da:11:31:
And arms shall stand on his part,
and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength,
and shall take away the daily sacrifice,
and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Posting your mantra endlessly is supposed top impress who? In my world, it makes you appear like you are an angry little child.

I'm probably not going out on a limb when I say that I doubt your understanding of the 1290 days and the 1335 days is not the same as what the Bible would promote. They deal with the end of the Beast's 42 months, in a slight way, a lot more to do with the 1260 days the two witnesses are given.

 

[5thKingdom]

The Great Tribulation is the people in hell:

No, the period known as the "Great Tribulation" is shown MANY times in Scripture as:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast

(2) the Revelation Beast

(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)

(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Bottomless Pit

That is what the "harmony of Scripture" reveals.


/

 

[Wayne Gabler]

No, the period known as the "Great Tribulation" is shown MANY times in Scripture as:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast

(2) the Revelation Beast

(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)

(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Bottomless Pit

That is what the "harmony of Scripture" reveals.


/

Would you mind posting the verses for each of your reverences that show that is 'great tribulation' compared to 'tribulation'?

The Church that is threaten is judged only by the 7 vials from Re:16;
De:4:30-31:
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

1Th:5:1-6:
But of the times and the seasons,
brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say,
Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child;
and they shall not escape.
But ye,
brethren,
are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep,
as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.

Re:11:9-10:
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half,
and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them,
and make merry,
and shall send gifts one to another;
because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Re:16:15-21:
Behold,
I come as a thief.
Blessed is he that watcheth,
and keepeth his garments,
lest he walk naked,
and they see his shame.
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air;
and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,
from the throne, saying, It is done.
And there were voices,
and thunders,
and lightnings;
and there was a great earthquake,
such as was not since men were upon the earth,
so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts,
and the cities of the nations fell:
and great Babylon came in remembrance before God,
to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
And every island fled away,
and the mountains were not found.
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven,
every stone about the weight of a talent:
and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail;
for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[DavidPT]

After the 7 vials are done the land is void of life, the 7 year cleanup is needed before the land is clean;
Eze:39:7-10:
So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel;
and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more:
and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD,
the Holy One in Israel.
Behold,
it is come,
and it is done,
saith the Lord GOD;
this is the day whereof I have spoken.
And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth,
and shall set on fire and burn the weapons,
both the shields and the bucklers,
the bows and the arrows,
and the handstaves,
and the spears,
and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
So that they shall take no wood out of the field,
neither cut down any out of the forests;
for they shall burn the weapons with fire:
and they shall spoil those that spoiled them,
and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Per your view of things, where does this place this 7 year clean up? In this age before the 2nd coming, or in the next age involving the thousand years? You do take the thousand years to be meaning after the 2nd coming, right?

 

[Wayne Gabler]

No, the period known as the "Great Tribulation" is shown MANY times in Scripture as:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast

(2) the Revelation Beast

(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)

(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Bottomless Pit

That is what the "harmony of Scripture" reveals.


/

1 The 4th beast includes all the woes associated with the the 5th and 6th trump only. The 3rd woe is when Jeus comes a s thief in the night, as stated in Re:16.

2 The beast is destroyed in the 7 vials:
Re:16:10: And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Re:16:11-14:
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores,
and repented not of their deeds.
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates;
and the water thereof was dried up,
that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon,
and out of the mouth of the beast,
and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils,
working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

3 The false prophet is the leader of the 200M horsemen, he is destroyed at the same times the beast in the reference just above. There is no 'little' season before the end of the 1,000 years that starts the day the two witnesses are resurrected.

There is no 'little season' in the 5th and 6th trump verses.
Re:20:1-3:
And I saw an angel come down from heaven,
having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon,
that old serpent,
which is the Devil,
and Satan,
and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit,
and shut him up,
and set a seal upon him,
that he should deceive the nations no more,
till the thousand years should be fulfilled:
and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:

No... you do not understand the A-Millennial position at all.

The A-Millennial position is that the 1000 year period when the Saints "lived and reigned with Christ"
is DURING the (3rd) Christian Kingdom during the Great Commission of the Church Age when
all of "His Sheep" are found and saved. Until the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved) Rev 7:1-3

The Amils I'm mostly familiar with, such as SpiritualJew, SovereignGrace, undoubtedly don't place satan's little season after Revelation 19:20

Please read what I wrote carefully.
I do not place Satan's "Little Season" AFTER Rev 19:20... I never said that.


(1) The Great Commission of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom continues until the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved)
This is the A-Millennial Kingdom when the Saints "lived and reigned with Christ"


(2) The Great Tribulation Kingdom (Revelation Beast) BEGINS after the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved)
Which establishes that Salvation is over AFTER the Last Saint is "sealed"


Rev 7 PROVES #1 and #2

Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


(3) AFTER the Great Tribulation (Revelation Beast) is destroyed [Rev 19:20] the ETERNAL Kingdom begins.
I have already given you MANY verses showing the Eternal Kingdom BEGINS when the Fourth Beast ENDS.
I will provide them again if you need them.


(4) When you understand that:
Daniel's Fourth Beast = Revelation Beast = Great Tribulation = Rule of the Anti-Christ = DURING Satan's "Little Season"...
and all that happens AFTER the (3rd) Great Commission of the Church Age is complete and the Last Saint has been "sealed"...


THEN (and only then) can you understand the Chronology of the History of Man

then you insist Daniel 7:12, a season and a time, this is meaning satan's little season,

No... I NEVER said the "Season and Time" represented Satan's "Little Season"
You are so confused.


The "Season and Time" is the Time AFTER the destruction of the Fourth Beast
it is the time AFTER the 2nd Woe is past but BEFORE the 3rd Woe BEGINS


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly

and that it is meaning after the beast is given to the burning flame. How does that not equal that satan's little season is after Revelation 19:20? Per the following 4 events, what chronological order do you place them in? I don't need a commentary about it, I simply just want to know what order you place these events in.

1) the 2nd coming

2) satan's little season(Apparently meaning Daniel 7:12 to you)

3) Daniel 7:11, also meaning Revelation 19:20 to you

4) the thousand years

Sir... I have done this several times for you.
This is the LAST Time. If you cannot understand me
or you disagree with me that is fine. I cannot continue
to repeat myself over-and-over


(1) The Great Commission of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom continues until the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved)
This is the A-Millennial Kingdom when the Saints "lived and reigned with Christ"


(2) The Great Tribulation Kingdom (Revelation Beast) BEGINS after the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved)
Which establishes that Salvation is over AFTER the Last Saint is "sealed"


Rev 7 PROVES #1 and #2

Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


(3) AFTER the Great Tribulation (Revelation Beast) is destroyed [Rev 19:20] the ETERNAL Kingdom begins.
I have already given you MANY verses showing the Eternal Kingdom BEGINS when the Fourth Beast ENDS.
I will provide them again if you need them.


(4) When you understand that:
Daniel's Fourth Beast = Revelation Beast = Great Tribulation = Rule of the Anti-Christ = DURING Satan's "Little Season"...
and all that happens AFTER the (3rd) Great Commission of the Church Age is complete and the Last Saint has been "sealed"...

THEN (and only then) can you understand the Chronology of the History of Man

The Amils I'm most familiar with on this site, unlike you, none of them take Daniel 7:12 to be involving satan's little season.

Again... I have NEVER said Daniel 7:12 is Satan's "Little Season"...
that is what YOU think, not me

Please re-read the Chronology above.

If that is incorrect, why do you keep insisting that Daniel 7:12 is meaning satan's little season,

I have never implied Dan 7:12 represents Satan's "Little Season"..
I don't know how many times I must repeat this.

The problem is not, that I don't understand Amil so much, the problem is that I don't understand your version of it

Please read MY VERSION of the Third and Fourth Kingdom above

since none of these other Amils apply satan's little season to Daniel 7:l2

And I do not apply Satan's "Little Season" to Daniel 7:12 either
I have given you the Chronology of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom (Daniel's Third Beast)
and the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom (Daniel's Fourth Beast)

AFTER the Fourth Beast is destroyed the ETERNAL Kingdom begins.
There is only a brief "Season and Time" between the destruction of the Beast [Rev 19:20]
and the destruction of Satan and all his "Kingdoms" (governments) as they JOIN THE BEAST [Rev 20:10]



/

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Per your view of things, where does this place this 7 year clean up? In this age before the 2nd coming, or in the next age involving the thousand years? You do take the thousand years to be meaning after the 2nd coming, right?

The whole house of Israel is involved so it has to be after the Re:20:4 resurrections as they include all the people Eze:37 references. By the end of the same day the two witnesses are resurrected they are like Jesus when He asked Mary M. to not touch Him. He leads the 12 Tribes to the tree of life in Eze:47. It would take about a month before everybody has a body like Jesus had during the 40 days He was in Jerusalem after His resurrection. It would start when that process is finished.
The 1290 days from Daniel includes the 1260 days of the two witnesses, plus 30 days before the trumps begin to sound. The Angel in Re:8 is sealing all the people that have to be sealed before the trumps sound. You then take that 1290 days and add 45 days to the day they die, 4 days in the grave leave 41 days, take away days for the 12 Tribes to eat from the tree of life, that leaves 10 days for the Church to come to that same tree of life (after walking for 30 days) 10 days for that, on the 11th day all the people are as holy as Jesus was when He baptized 11 people the evening after His resurrection.

Da:12:11-12:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,
and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth,
and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Private prayer that repents a person's sins is replaced by prayers that are about personal safety for repented believers (counted in the Re:11 temple) so they survive trumps 1-6. Trump 7 is not a danger to them, it kills the ones that were trying to do them harm.

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:

No, the period known as the "Great Tribulation" is shown MANY times in Scripture as:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast

(2) the Revelation Beast

(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)

(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Bottomless Pit

That is what the "harmony of Scripture" reveals.

1 The 4th beast includes all the woes associated with the the 5th and 6th trump only. The 3rd woe is when Jeus comes a s thief in the night, as stated in Re:16.

First... you did not RESPOND to what I said,
you DEFLECTED instead.


Secondly... the Fourth Beast does NOT include all the Woes...
it only includes the 1st Woe and 2nd Woe (the 5th and 6th Trumpets)
the 3rd Woe happens AFTER the Revelation Beast (Fourth Beast) has been destroyed...
do you need Scripture to prove that fact? I will provide it AGAIN.


The 3rd Woe is the ETERNAL WOE


But AGAIN... none of this addresses WHAT I SAID.
We cannot have a "discussion" when you DEFLECT instead of "discuss"

---------


NOW... how about you RESPOND to what I said (below)
that is called "having a "discussion"


5thKingdom said:

No, the period known as the "Great Tribulation" is shown MANY times in Scripture as:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast

(2) the Revelation Beast

(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)

(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Bottomless Pit

That is what the "harmony of Scripture" reveals.


/

 

[Wayne Gabler]

5thKingdom said:

No, the period known as the "Great Tribulation" is shown MANY times in Scripture as:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast

(2) the Revelation Beast

(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)

(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Bottomless Pit

That is what the "harmony of Scripture" reveals.

First... you did not RESPOND to what I said,
you DEFLECTED instead.


Secondly... the Fourth Beast does NOT include all the Woes...
it only includes the 1st Woe and 2nd Woe (the 5th and 6th Trumpets)
the 3rd Woe happens AFTER the Revelation Beast (Fourth Beast) has been destroyed...
do you need Scripture to prove that fact? I will provide it AGAIN.


The 3rd Woe is the ETERNAL WOE


But AGAIN... none of this addresses WHAT I SAID.
We cannot have a "discussion" when you DEFLECT instead of "discuss"

---------


NOW... how about you RESPOND to what I said (below)
that is called "having a "discussion"


5thKingdom said:

No, the period known as the "Great Tribulation" is shown MANY times in Scripture as:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast

(2) the Revelation Beast

(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)

(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Bottomless Pit

That is what the "harmony of Scripture" reveals.


/

My post covered all of your points, I even numbered them. How does that warrant you claiming I am ignoring what you posted. This should be where you replied to my reply to those points, rather than claiming I just ignore all of them. Reply to every word I posted in #68 as that is how a discussion works.

Do one point at a time if you have to, if you missed those 4 answers you would miss any post that cover you posts that have 20 or more points, that you consider to be your core argument, or so it seems.
Personally, I see the red ink as a ply to make it so you don't have to add any comments of your own.

 

[5thKingdom]

My post covered all of your points, I even numbered them. How does that warrant you claiming I am ignoring what you posted.

You are saying you numbered your counter-points in Post #70?
I don't think so.

And the points you numbered in Post #68
do not correspond to my points... instead you DEFLECTED to other subjects.

Do one point at a time if you have to,

Apparently we MUST do one point at a time...
Where do you want to begin (remember only 1 point)


/

 

[Wayne Gabler]

You are saying you numbered your counter-points in Post #70?
I don't think so.

And the points you numbered in Post #68
do not correspond to my points... instead you DEFLECTED to other subjects.





Apparently we MUST do one point at a time...
Where do you want to begin (remember only 1 point)


/

Here is the point now under discussion:

Me: Reply to every word I posted in #68

You: You are saying you numbered your counter-points in Post #70?

Nighty nite.

 

[DavidPT]

The whole house of Israel is involved so it has to be after the Re:20:4 resurrections as they include all the people Eze:37 references.

I agree. I see it meaning during the beginning of the thousand years as well. How can it not be if Ezekiel 39:17-20 is involving the same events Revelation 19:21 is, and that Revelation 19:21 is involving the 2nd coming in the end of this age? Which then means Ezekiel 39:9-16 is involving the aftermath. And since we know the aftermath involves 7 years, and that if Ezekiel 39:17-20 is involving Revelation 19:21, and that if Revelation 19:21 is involving the 2nd coming, where else but the thousand years can this 7 years logically fit, right? That being how I reason it anyway.

As to the rest of your post which I did not quote, I don't know if you might be correct about any or all of that or not. Unfortunately, all of that pretty much went over my head.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

I agree. I see it meaning during the beginning of the thousand years as well. How can it not be if Ezekiel 39:17-20 is involving the same events Revelation 19:21 is, and that Revelation 19:21 is involving the 2nd coming in the end of this age? Which then means Ezekiel 39:9-16 is involving the aftermath. And since we know the aftermath involves 7 years, and that if Ezekiel 39:17-20 is involving Revelation 19:21, and that if Revelation 19:21 is involving the 2nd coming, where else but the thousand years can this 7 years logically fit, right? That being how I reason it anyway.

As to the rest of your post which I did not quote, I don't if you might be correct about any or all of that or not. Unfortunately, all of that pretty much went over my head.

Eze:39 starts out with them being alive in the 1,000-year reign (Zec:14 is also the 1,000 year reign) The last part goes back in time before they were made whole. If they are all alive at the end of the day the two witnesses are resurrected, then their tribulation is before. It is the 200M horsemen that kill the members of the 12 Tribes that are not sealed. They are part of the 1/3 of mankind they are allowed to kill before Jesus turn them into a river of blood.
Re:9:15:
And the four angels were loosed,
which were prepared for an hour,
and a day,
and a month,
and a year,
for to slay the third part of men.

Re:14:20:
And the winepress was trodden without the city,
and blood came out of the winepress,
even unto the horse bridles,
by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Eze:39:10:
So that they shall take no wood out of the field,
neither cut down any out of the forests;
for they shall burn the weapons with fire:
and they shall spoil those that spoiled them,
and rob those that robbed them,
saith the Lord GOD.

The people Jesus kills drop-dead where they stand, their bones are not gathered.

Jer:25:33:
And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:
they shall not be lamented,
neither gathered,
nor buried;
they shall be dung upon the ground.

 

[DavidPT]

No... you do not understand the A-Millennial position at all.

Does not the thousand years begin 2000 years ago, according to the A-Millennial position? Would this not logically mean that they are living and reigning with Christ during the Great Commission of the Church Age when all of "His Sheep" are found and saved? If yes, and that I comprehend that that it is what it would mean, assuming this scenario, how does that equal I don't understand the A-Millennial position? Just because I might disagree with it, that doesn't mean I don't understand that position.

You then added---Until the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved) Rev 7:1-3. I see that making sense assuming that scenario, that the thousand years began 2000 years ago and continues unto the time of the satan's little season, which then should logically mean the door to salvation is closed at this point, meaning when the thousand years expire and the little season begins.

No... I NEVER said the "Season and Time" represented Satan's "Little Season"
You are so confused.


The "Season and Time" is the Time AFTER the destruction of the Fourth Beast
it is the time AFTER the 2nd Woe is past but BEFORE the 3rd Woe BEGINS


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly

It's not my intentions to purposely misrepresent you or something, I guess I just can't figure out what you are meaning here no matter how many times and different ways you try and explain it so that it might be clear to me. Except it isn't, at least not yet anyway. But I think I'm finally beginning to make progress, though. Thus what I typed below.

How can when the 2nd woe is past, but before the 3rd woe begins, that any of that can involve a season and a time? Which appears to be what you are saying. Then you have to explain how the 4th beast is destroyed before the 2nd woe is past, then given to the burning flame, meaning Revelation 19:20. That is what you are saying, right? That the 4th beast is given to the burning flame during the 2nd woe. If yes, where does it say any of that anywhere in Revelation prior to Revelation 19:20?

 

[DavidPT]

Eze:39 starts out with them being alive in the 1,000-year reign (Zec:14 is also the 1,000 year reign) The last part goes back in time before they were made whole. If they are all alive at the end of the day the two witnesses are resurrected, then their tribulation is before. It is the 200M horsemen that kill the members of the 12 Tribes that are not sealed. They are part of the 1/3 of mankind they are allowed to kill before Jesus turn them into a river of blood.
Re:9:15:
And the four angels were loosed,
which were prepared for an hour,
and a day,
and a month,
and a year,
for to slay the third part of men.

Re:14:20:
And the winepress was trodden without the city,
and blood came out of the winepress,
even unto the horse bridles,
by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Eze:39:10:
So that they shall take no wood out of the field,
neither cut down any out of the forests;
for they shall burn the weapons with fire:
and they shall spoil those that spoiled them,
and rob those that robbed them,
saith the Lord GOD.

The people Jesus kills drop-dead where they stand, their bones are not gathered.

Jer:25:33:
And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:
they shall not be lamented,
neither gathered,
nor buried;
they shall be dung upon the ground.

Thanks. I'm onboard with all of this. I grasp where you are coming from, thus agree.

I still have to wonder why Amils apparently find things like this uninteresting though, thus not relevant? Never really see them discussing passages such as these very often, if at all. I guess because it contradicts their view if any of these events are involving post the 2nd coming.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

I used to visit the 'rapture ready' form, they had one thread for anybody that disagreed with that doctrine. I got booted when I showed them this verse was not about the 12 Tribes:

Zec:13:8-9:
And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land,
saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name,
and I will hear them:
I will say,
It is my people:
and they shall say,
The LORD is my God.

The proof was in Zec:14:1-3

When I started reading the Bible I had a lot more questions than answers. I spent more time expanding on the parts I did understand and later (years later) the part that were unclear were cleared. Job was the book that remained a mystery the longest.
There are also doctrines the Bible doesn't support, those were pushed the hardest as far as being 'sound doctrine'. Bit odd(I thought) that was more prevalent on Christian only site than someplace like YouTube.

Hope to see more posts from you.
Later.

 

[5thKingdom]

Does not the thousand years begin 2000 years ago, according to the A-Millennial position?

A-Millennial mean NO Millennial...

And I was very clear the A-Millennial Kingdom represents
the (3rd) Christian Kingdom of the Great Commission saving ALL of "His Sheep"
and continuing until the "End of the Age" until the Great Commission is completed
and the Last Saint has been "sealed" JUST BEFORE the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom BEGINS
Rev 7:1-3 PROVES this reality.

Would this not logically mean that they are living and reigning with Christ during the Great Commission of the Church Age when all of "His Sheep" are found and saved? If yes, and that I comprehend that that it is what it would mean, assuming this scenario, how does that equal I don't understand the A-Millennial position? Just because I might disagree with it, that doesn't mean I don't understand that position.

Again, the A-Millennial mean there is NO LITERAL 1000 year Kingdom
I don't know how to be more clear about that.

You then added---Until the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved) Rev 7:1-3. I see that making sense assuming that scenario, that the thousand years began 2000 years ago and continues unto the time of the satan's little season, which then should logically mean the door to salvation is closed at this point, meaning when the thousand years expire and the little season begins.

That is what the Gospel teaches.

It's not my intentions to purposely misrepresent you or something, I guess I just can't figure out what you are meaning here no matter how many times and different ways you try and explain it so that it might be clear to me. Except it isn't, at least not yet anyway. But I think I'm finally beginning to make progress, though. Thus what I typed below.

So far (above) you have understood correctly.
Do not be alarmed this is NEW INFORMATION to you because
the Bible PROMISES [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10] the TRUTH about Daniel's Beast
would remain "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand"
(and preach) at the "Time-of-the-End"

In other words the Gospel PROMISES the Last Saints bring NEW INFORMATION about Daniel's prophecies.
and the fulfillment of Great Tribulation "signs" that they "shall understand ALL these things" [Mat 24:33].
The Last Saints preaching is, in itself, a "sign" of the nearness of His Return.

How can when the 2nd woe is past, but before the 3rd woe begins, that any of that can involve a season and a time?

The 2nd Woe is past (btw, the Revelation Beast is destroyed BEFORE the end of the 2nd Woe)
THEN there is a brief "Season and Time" (aka the "Time-of-the-End") before Satan and his "kingdoms" (governments)
JOIN THE BEAST in the "Lake of Fire" [Rev 20:10]

Which appears to be what you are saying. Then you have to explain how the 4th beast is destroyed before the 2nd woe is past, then given to the burning flame, meaning Revelation 19:20. That is what you are saying, right? That the 4th beast is given to the burning flame during the 2nd woe. If yes, where does it say any of that anywhere in Revelation prior to Revelation 19:20?

The 4th Beast is destroyed BEFORE the end of the 2nd Woe and "given to the Burning Flame" or "Lake of Fire"
BEFORE the "Season and Time" or "Time-of-the-End" and THEN Satan and his "Kingdoms" (governments)
JOIN THE BEAST at the beginning of the (eternal) 3rd Woe.


/