The Last Reformation

[Alithis]

I ask questions, you evade. I state scriptures, you ignore. What you believe is not important, but what bible teaches. TLR is generally good, but too often I have met Torben centered disciples, not Jesus centered. Torben says this or Torben says that.

We'll see how this all turns out in 5 or 10 year perspecitve, time is the best evaluator. I myself am kickstarted in Denmark and started moving in Christ but I do not come along with any cult of personality and do not like belittling of today's church as TLR people often like to do. I appereciate Torben and all sincere christians but at some points, as I described, allow me to dissent. End of discussion.

Actually I havnt stated what torban stated nor made any big deal about him at all ..I asked you do you not believe in growing in faith and growing spiritually I did not list scripture as there are many on that. So your protest on faith growing like a muscle is answered.
I don't agree with belittling the ecclesia either.
But stating the truth about the Sunday club system ..which in Europe is rife with false gospel and fast spiraling back under Rome ..is not belittling.it's just stating the facts.

You will either come out of it..or go down with it. But it is going to sell out fully to the spirit of this world because it is built upon the money if this world.
And when that gets cut off..it will wither and submit to the spirit of this world .

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Does TLR baptism invalidate in any way a Christian (from another denomination)'s previous baptism?

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

There are several YouTube channels with videos showing people "allegedly" healing others of various pains on the streets and in various public locations (stores, parks etc.). One of the most notable one I've come across is this one: WINDSOR ON FIRE

After doing a little research, I found out that they do some sort of recruitment of disciples. They travel to various places and people go and meet them and they give these people "the power of the Holy Spirit" so they can heal other people too.

The whole thing is based on a movie from a few years ago called The Last Reformation, which is about this new religious movement that claims that all Christians can do miracles with the help of The Holy Spirit in Jesus' name. You can watch more about it here: The Last Reformation

There are other channels with street healers that claim to be using the power of The Holy Spirit to heal random passerbies of their pains.

What is your opinion about this? Are all these 'healings' staged (hired actors) or are they made with the power of the enemy?

I believe Charismatic, and similar churches, which do not claim the gifts have ended, are the best types of churches. However, many of these churches which believe the gifts have not ended do have severe errors. But, there are ones which have few errors.

Miracles do happen, and can be done, even though people's love has grown cold, and there is little faith on earth. (Despite the widespreadness of the Name of Jesus, unfortunately many of the loudest Christian groups have put the Name in ill repute, due to their blatant un-Jesus like behavior and teachings. Think modern day Pharisees and Sadducee's. They have a 'zeal for God, but apart from knowledge'.)

For one thing, you do not need other people's faith to work all manner of miracles. There are many types of miracles which can be worked without other people having faith.

I do not believe what is needed is a new 'Reformation', however, as the last one ended up not very far from what they were attempting to reform. But, the reformation did bring out much good, much clarity.

What every believer is called to, however, is to find the Kingdom. And, to enter the Kingdom you must be born again. Merely having the Spirit puts you in a fetal state, it is not being born again. It is more like God is forming your new body, and you are in the womb of this. When you are born again, this is the same as the baptism of fire. Where you enter into the Kingdom, which is not of this world.

The Kingdom is a world which is not of this world. It is one of Angels, and of Heaven. In this world, miracles are the substance of it, as opposed to being something strange and impossible.

 

[axydavid]

I will resurrect this old thread with my own opinion and experience.
I was part of their group in Denmark before and my wife even went to their first discipleship school in Denmark before Torben got "kicked" out of Denmark.

They are legit. The miracles are real, I brought my own cousin to one of their meetings and he got healed, he had some issues with his shoulder. I agree with their basic opinions, went out on the streets with them, prayed for people, and many got healed just like you see in the videos.

From my knowledge of what happens internally I'd say they like to be on the edgy, a little extreme side sometimes. However, it seems they are starting to mellow down in that regard so that's good. From what I see Torben is a kind of reactionary guy. Sometimes he can overreact to something and call it bad, but after some time of thinking and meditation, he recalculates his position and admits he went too far and apologises.

One such example that can be checked publicly is that in the early times he was against the church building and even goes as far as calling it unbiblical, and against the will of God. He absolutely refused to cooperate with any churches while in Denmark as far as I remember. Once he moved to the US, however, it seems that he mellowed down on this point and is now cooperating with local churches.

The leader of the TLR group I attended believed that you needed to be baptized in order to be saved, however, I don't remember that being the official teaching, when I pressured my leader for more answers in this regard they kinda backed down from that point. They kinda recognize baptisms from other churches as long as they're adults(age of accountability).

Their teaching on water baptism is a little different, while they believe that it is a public declaration it is also implied that it gives God more legal authority over the person, which makes it easier to receive healing or deliverance. They do deliverances on people who are not baptized however it is very seldom and probably only if they are already a believer.

Another teaching that I think sets them apart is that they do not believe in impartations, they believe that the baptism of the holy spirit is enough and that there is no need for impartation for any specific spiritual gift to manifest. They vehemently reject the doctrine of impartation. However, the truth is that everyone that I know from TLR managed to be used by God in healing so I think it's an interesting opposition to the impartation doctrine.

Lastly, I wouldn't call this a church, it's more of an evangelistic movement.

 

[axydavid]

Another thing I want to point out is their discipleship system. It all starts with a "kickstart", this is the minimum thing one can do in TLR in order to be seen as part of the group and later even as a local leader. There are very few requirements in order to rise as a leader. However, there is the option to go to one of their pioneer schools where you could stay a few weeks to a few months depending on the situation where you would go deeper into detail in regards to their beliefs.

There is little control from the "top" so to say in regards to what happens in these TLR groups. It is very individualistic in nature, and this can be a pro/con depending on the situation.
However some of the more known leaders do visit occasionally and you can be more closely affiliated with the main branch of TLR if you so choose, however it is completely optional.

There is a TLR map on their website and you can see there all the available leaders, the ones with a green dot are the ones who completed all the official training so to speak.

The group that I was a part of scattered later on, many of them started ministries of their own after that.

All in all, I think they're a great ministry, however, you need to understand that the groups of this movement are only loosely tied together and there might be some doctrinal variations depending on the group you are in. What ties them together is a love for evangelism and a love for seeing people healed.

 

[wendykvw]

There are several YouTube channels with videos showing people "allegedly" healing others of various pains on the streets and in various public locations (stores, parks etc.). One of the most notable one I've come across is this one: WINDSOR ON FIRE

After doing a little research, I found out that they do some sort of recruitment of disciples. They travel to various places and people go and meet them and they give these people "the power of the Holy Spirit" so they can heal other people too.

The whole thing is based on a movie from a few years ago called The Last Reformation, which is about this new religious movement that claims that all Christians can do miracles with the help of The Holy Spirit in Jesus' name. You can watch more about it here: The Last Reformation

There are other channels with street healers that claim to be using the power of The Holy Spirit to heal random passerbies of their pains.

What is your opinion about this? Are all these 'healings' staged (hired actors) or are they made with the power of the enemy?

Have never seen or heard about the movement. Do they believe Jesus is Lord and the Savior of the world?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Another thing I want to point out is their discipleship system. It all starts with a "kickstart", this is the minimum thing one can do in TLR in order to be seen as part of the group and later even as a local leader. There are very few requirements in order to rise as a leader. However, there is the option to go to one of their pioneer schools where you could stay a few weeks to a few months depending on the situation where you would go deeper into detail in regards to their beliefs.

There is little control from the "top" so to say in regards to what happens in these TLR groups. It is very individualistic in nature, and this can be a pro/con depending on the situation.
However some of the more known leaders do visit occasionally and you can be more closely affiliated with the main branch of TLR if you so choose, however it is completely optional.

There is a TLR map on their website and you can see there all the available leaders, the ones with a green dot are the ones who completed all the official training so to speak.

The group that I was a part of scattered later on, many of them started ministries of their own after that.

All in all, I think they're a great ministry, however, you need to understand that the groups of this movement are only loosely tied together and there might be some doctrinal variations depending on the group you are in. What ties them together is a love for evangelism and a love for seeing people healed.

Good thoughts, but I’d say the bit about kickstarting is not entirely accurate. At least not in my area. I haven’t been to a kickstart event, but I’m a part of the group and discipleship starts as soon as one is born again. Kickstarts, the PTS, etc are only tools that we use to further our faith and understanding of the principle elements of our faith.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Have never seen or heard about the movement. Do they believe Jesus is Lord and the Savior of the world?

Yes, according to what they are saying, they do believe that.