The Killing of Patrick Lyoya - what do you think of it?

[Valletta]

Now 4 say: I do NOT think it OK.
One says: I think it OK.

Officers have a right to defend themselves. Lyola should never have been out there in the first place, he should have been jailed for knowingly assaulted a pregnant woman rather than put on probation. What about the safety of police officers and all law-abiding citizens?

 

[Red Gold]

he should have been jailed for knowingly assaulted a pregnant woman rather than put on probation.

If he did that, why is it not in the news.
I have a feeling, journalists have become lazy.
They can just copy what they are told - not do any research of their own any more.

 

[Valletta]

If he did that, why is it not in the news.
I have a feeling, journalists have become lazy.
They can just copy what they are told - not do any research of their own any more.

In the United States they are extremely biased and have a narrative. If the facts don't fit the narrative those facts have little chance of being revealed. Reporting that the guy had previously been arrested four times did not fit the narrative.
Here's a recent story: Video shows Syracuse police detaining boy crying hysterically One of the major networks said the eight year old was in "anguish."
The guy who took the video and is mouthing off to the police, escalating the situation, is an ex-con. This is really a non-story, routine, but because the boy is black the news media goes wild. When you don't arrest people for crimes the crime rate goes way up and more people in the community die. Even traffic arrests, in California they pulled back on arresting blacks for traffic offenses in a black neighborhood and the death rate for motor vehicles shot up. Car hijackings are way up. To really care about black lives, all lives, means reasonable policing.

 

[Aldebaran]

If he did that, why is it not in the news.
I have a feeling, journalists have become lazy.
They can just copy what they are told - not do any research of their own any more.

Not lazy so much as biased. I just did a Google search about the guy and almost every article focuses on how he was a black man shot by a white cop. But there were a couple sources that actually dared to tell more of the story about the black man:

"The portrait reveals Lyoya, an African immigrant who fled to the United States with his family for safety more than seven years ago, found love, friendship, a job in an auto parts factory and trouble with the law.
That includes two convictions for assaulting women, one of whom was pregnant; at least two arrests for crimes involving stolen cars, both of which were reduced to misdemeanors; and repeated drinking and driving, including one for which he was awaiting sentencing on the day he was killed.
The convictions contrast with memories shared by family and friends and in Lyoya's social media posts."
Lyoya described as 'loving father, diligent son,' but one with multiple Michigan police interactions

 

[The Barbarian]

When the police in Germany stop someone can they just run away from them? The police just let them go?

In most states, police are held criminally liable for shooting a fleeing suspect unless he's directly threatening the life of someone. (such as driving a car at people). You aren't allowed to execute someone for running away from you, even if you're a police officer.

Germany might be different. The police of most northern European nations are much more gentle with suspects than our police usually are. But Germany might be an exception. I doubt if they allow shooting a fleeing suspect who is not a danger to others.

 

[The Barbarian]

Whatver it is, when I say "Black Lives Matter" I mean just that: that black lives do matter.

That's what makes some people angry. Racism is dying in America, but it's not dead. Sorry.

Who are you saying told her not to proceed?

The police trying to keep the mob from getting to our representatives. They had been repeatedly told to leave after breaking and entering. Police had been assaulted and injured by the insurrectionists. One of them was shot. She was not fleeing police; she was assaulting the Capitol with the mob. Whether the cops who shot these criminals in either case made the best decision is a matter of argument.

There were not more lives at stake there than at any of the BLM protests.

Since police have praised BLM members for helping to maintain order and report criminals at the protests, I'm guessing that they managed to save some lives. Like that lone police officer who was surrounded and protected by BLM protestors when thugs tried to turn the protest into a riot.

Once BLM protesters went beyond a barrier are you saying it would have been justified to just shoot someone from a distance?

It happened; sometimes to people within the barriers. Fortunately, the police used rubber bullets and never actually killed anyone. When a mob breaks into a public building, starts breaking things and assaulting police officers trying to get them out, they really have no excuse if they get shot. Just as that individual had no excuse if he really was trying to grab the taser.

Yes, I know that police always say that they thought "he was trying to grab my gun", but it does happen.

 

[Valletta]

The police trying to keep the mob from getting to our representatives. They had been repeatedly told to leave after breaking and entering. Police had been assaulted and injured by the insurrectionists. One of them was shot. She was not fleeing police; she was assaulting the Capitol with the mob. Whether the cops who shot these criminals in either case made the best decision is a matter of argument.

There were no insurrectionists, not one person has been charged with insurrection. There is video of police motioning protesters toward the Capitol and police allowing people to walk by them into the Capitol. An unarmed protester, a woman weighing about 110 lbs was murdered, gunned down from a distance. The officer needs to be held accountable, and so do people covering up this crime.

 

[RDKirk]

[QUOTE="The Barbarian, post: 76664383, member: 7989"
It happened; sometimes to people within the barriers. Fortunately, the police used rubber bullets and never actually killed anyone. When a mob breaks into a public building, starts breaking things and assaulting police officers trying to get them out, they really have no excuse if they get shot. Just as that individual had no excuse if he really was trying to grab the taser. [/QUOTE]

This covers both situations adequately.

 

[The Barbarian]

There were no insurrectionists, not one person has been charged with insurrection. There is video of police motioning protesters toward the Capitol and police allowing people to walk by them into the Capitol. An unarmed protester, a woman weighing about 110 lbs was murdered, gunned down from a distance. The officer needs to be held accountable, and so do people covering up this crime.

Sorry, there's lots of video. No point in denial.

 

[hedrick]

Simply going on the article, it seems to be legally justified, but I can’t help thinking there were a number of places the officer could have paused, and avoided this result.

 

[Valletta]

Sorry, there's lots of video. No point in denial.

You're right, and there is testimony that the cops even told the protesters they could enter--so far the federal government refuses to release the audio. But it certainly appears that way on the video.

 

[RDKirk]

Simply going on the article, it seems to be legally justified, but I can’t help thinking there were a number of places the officer could have paused, and avoided this result.

Places to "pause" are only visible in the aftermath, not when you're in the middle of hand-to-hand combat.

 

[The Barbarian]

You're right, and there is testimony that the cops even told the protesters they could enter

Sorry, that story fell apart when the video showed insurrectionists attacking police, breaking through crowd barriers, and breaking into the Capitol.

Video released by the U.S. Dept. of Justice in response to a court order appears to show a police officer being dragged into a violent mob by January 6 insurrectionists incited by Donald Trump.

The video, presumably captured by a body cam, is one of many that have been posted by NBC4 Washington Investigative Reporter Scott MacFarlane. It is violent and disturbing.

The DOJ has charged over 500 people who participated in the attempted coup on January 6, and reportedly expects to charge dozens more.

 

[Aldebaran]

Sorry, there's lots of video. No point in denial.

You're right, there is lots of video, including this one showing cops waving the crowd to proceed:

 

[The Barbarian]

The police intercepted the insurrectionists when they broke into the Capitol, and then the mob grabbed at least one police officer and beat him bloody.

The police who defended the Capitol testified about the terrorists, explaining why they are terrorists:

The DOJ has charged over 500 people who participated in the attempted coup on January 6, and reportedly expects to charge dozens more.

The criminals who attacked these officers deserve everything they are getting from the justice system.

 

[Aldebaran]

The police intercepted the insurrectionists when they broke into the Capitol, and then the mob grabbed at least one police officer and beat him bloody.

The police who defended the Capitol testified about the terrorists, explaining why they are terrorists:

The DOJ has charged over 500 people who participated in the attempted coup on January 6, and reportedly expects to charge dozens more.

The criminals who attacked these officers deserve everything they are getting from the justice system.

Well, none of them are being convicted of terrorism, so the officer's opinion about that remains his own.
Still, the police allowed them into the building, as the video I showed you demonstrates. There is no doubt hundreds of hours more video that nobody is being allowed to see for some reason. There's probably no place in Washington DC that has more cameras.

 

[The Barbarian]

You're right, there is lots of video, including this one showing cops waving the crowd to proceed:

Here's some of the video, including the actions of a heroic officer leading the insurrectionists away for Pence and our representatives. (Warning: filthy-mouthed criminals in this video; don't click the link if you don't want to hear what they were saying)

 

[The Barbarian]

Well, none of them are being convicted of terrorism, so the officer's opinion about that remains his own.

No, that's wrong. He read of the Trump administration's own definition of "domestic terrorist."

Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

There you go. They are, as Trump's own FBI director admitted, domestic terrorists.

FBI Director Christopher Wray said Tuesday that officials have classified the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol by former President Trump’s supporters as domestic terrorism.


“That attack, that siege, was criminal behavior, plain and simple, and it’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism,” Wray told lawmakers on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/541185-wray-fbi-deemed-jan-6-attack-domestic-terrorism/

Still, the police allowed them into the building,

Well, that's a testable belief...

Lots more of that in the video. You've been completely misled about that story.

There is no doubt hundreds of hours more video that nobody is being allowed to see for some reason.

FBI found a lot of it on social media. These guys aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. Many of them are being sentenced because they were foolish enough to post evidence of their crimes.

There is a lot more. You want to see some more?

 

[Aldebaran]

Here's some of the video, including the actions of a heroic officer leading the insurrectionists away for Pence and our representatives. (Warning: filthy-mouthed criminals in this video; don't click the link if you don't want to hear what they were saying)

What does this have to do with the cops waving people to come into the building?

 

[Aldebaran]

No, that's wrong. He read of the Trump administration's own definition of "domestic terrorist."

Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

There you go. They are, as Trump's own FBI director admitted, domestic terrorists.

FBI Director Christopher Wray said Tuesday that officials have classified the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol by former President Trump’s supporters as domestic terrorism.


“That attack, that siege, was criminal behavior, plain and simple, and it’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism,” Wray told lawmakers on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/541185-wray-fbi-deemed-jan-6-attack-domestic-terrorism/



Well, that's a testable belief...

Lots more of that in the video. You've been completely misled about that story.



FBI found a lot of it on social media. These guys aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. Many of them are being sentenced because they were foolish enough to post evidence of their crimes.

There is a lot more. You want to see some more?

You're getting your evidence from social media? Why not CNN+ ? Lots of people tune in to that one!