The Killing of Patrick Lyoya - what do you think of it?

[Aldebaran]

Here's some of the video, including the actions of a heroic officer leading the insurrectionists away for Pence and our representatives. (Warning: filthy-mouthed criminals in this video; don't click the link if you don't want to hear what they were saying)

If it contains language not allowed here, then I don't think it's allowed to be posted.

 

[The Barbarian]

You're getting your evidence from social media?

It's the FBI website. Trump's own FBI director admits that the Jan 6 insurrectionists are domestic terrorists.

But it's true that the government did a lot of looking at social media were these terrorists posted evidence of their crimes.

 

[The Barbarian]

If it contains language not allowed here, then I don't think it's allowed to be posted.

I took it down. Anyone who wants to see it, can find it. The problem of course, is that these Trump supporters were a particularly foul-mouth bunch of terrorists; not true of all Trump supporters, of course.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's the FBI website. Trump's own FBI director admits that the Jan 6 insurrectionists are domestic terrorists.

But it's true that the government did a lot of looking at social media were these terrorists posted evidence of their crimes.

Why do you keep referring to them as "terrorists"? Were they ever convicted of terrorism?

 

[The Barbarian]

Why do you keep referring to them as "terrorists"?

Because they fit the definition:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

 

[Aldebaran]

Because they fit the definition:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

Have they been convicted of those things?

 

[The Barbarian]

Have they been convicted of those things?

Neither was Osama bin Laden. Turns out, that a terrorist is defined only by his or her behavior. According to law:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

By definition, the insurrectionists who attacked the Capitol to prevent the election from being certified, are domestic terrorists.

 

[Aldebaran]

Neither was Osama bin Laden. Turns out, that a terrorist is defined only by his or her behavior. According to law:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

By definition, the insurrectionists who attacked the Capitol to prevent the election from being certified, are domestic terrorists.

In other words, they weren't. That means you've judged them by your own opinion as guilty of something they've never been convicted of.
Remember back when people were considered innocent unless proven guilty?

 

[Valletta]

Neither was Osama bin Laden. Turns out, that a terrorist is defined only by his or her behavior. According to law:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

By definition, the insurrectionists who attacked the Capitol to prevent the election from being certified, are domestic terrorists.

Sounds like we can now refer to the Biden administration as terrorists.

 

[Valletta]

Sounds like we can now refer to the Biden administration as terrorists. Consider all of the people that would still be alive had the Biden regime not taken over

 

[The Barbarian]

Sounds like we can now refer to the Biden administration as terrorists.

Your guys already tried that. The problem was, the terrorists were carrying Trump banners. A bigger problem was explaining why Biden would send people to break into the Capital and attack police in order to overturn an election that he won.

Good luck on that.

 

[The Barbarian]

According to law:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

In other words, they weren't.

Did the attack on the Capitol involve acts dangerous to human life? Yep. Killed some people, in fact.

Did it violate criminal laws? Yep. A large number of the terrorists have been convicted of such crimes.

Did it appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population and influence the policy of the government by intimidation or coercion? Yep. Trump told them to do that. Many of the insurrectionists admitted the fact.

Was it intended to affect the conduct of the government by destruction, assassination or kidnapping? Yep. Even had a gallows built to hang the vice president.

Did it occur within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States? Yep.

That means you've judged them by your own opinion as guilty of something they've never been convicted of.

Feel free to show that they didn't do all those things caught on video. What do you have?

Remember back when people were considered innocent unless proven guilty?

So, because Osama bin Laden was never convicted, you're claiming he wasn't a terrorist?

 

[Aldebaran]

According to law:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf



Did the attack on the Capitol involve acts dangerous to human life? Yep. Killed some people, in fact.

Did it violate criminal laws? Yep. A large number of the terrorists have been convicted of such crimes.

Did it appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population and influence the policy of the government by intimidation or coercion? Yep. Trump told them to do that. Many of the insurrectionists admitted the fact.

Was it intended to affect the conduct of the government by destruction, assassination or kidnapping? Yep. Even had a gallows built to hang the vice president.

Did it occur within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States? Yep.



Feel free to show that they didn't do all those things caught on video. What do you have?



So, because Osama bin Laden was never convicted, you're claiming he wasn't a terrorist?

You're coming up with a lot of made up material here. You'll have to start coming up with actual events that are backed up by facts if you want me to continue this conversation.
Better yet, notice how far off topic your current posts have become. Back on topic, ok?

 

[The Barbarian]

According to law:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

Did the attack on the Capitol involve acts dangerous to human life? Yep. Killed some people, in fact.

Did it violate criminal laws? Yep. A large number of the terrorists have been convicted of such crimes.

Did it appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population and influence the policy of the government by intimidation or coercion? Yep. Trump told them to do that. Many of the insurrectionists admitted the fact.

Was it intended to affect the conduct of the government by destruction, assassination or kidnapping? Yep. Even had a gallows built to hang the vice president.

Did it occur within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States? Yep.

Feel free to show that they didn't do all those things caught on video. What do you have?

You're coming up with a lot of made up material here.

Specifically, U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5); that's the law.

You'll have to start coming up with actual events that are backed up by facts if you want me to continue this conversation.

I'd be tempted to bail out, too, if I had all that to explain away. As you now realize, the relevant law nicely describes what the insurrectionists were doing.

But yes, this thread isn't about the domestic terrorists who attacked the U.S. Capitol. It's about a single person who was also breaking the law, and apparently tried to harm an officer trying to do his job. If he was actually grabbing for the officer's taser, then it's not surprising or criminal that he was shot. Same goes for the terrorists. Police seem to have been remarkably restrained, only shooting one of them.

The justice system is dealing with the rest. FBI is still poring through social media to identify more of them.

 

[The Barbarian]

Sounds like we can now refer to the Biden administration as terrorists.

For people who described the insurrectionists as "tourists", it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to call people who never took part in political violence "terrorists." Big Brother is strong in them.

 

[Valletta]

For people who described the insurrectionists as "tourists", it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to call law-abiding people "terrorists."

As our nation faces a national disaster at the southern border, fentanyl, sex trafficking, and real terrorists, violent crime, car hijackings and murders in cities run by Democrats, runaway inflation, risk of world war because of Joe's minor incursion statement, foreign government ties to our president and his son's business dealing, we still have a hard core group still trying to yell "insurrection" while the president is limited to who he can talk to by the Easter Bunny.

 

[The Barbarian]

(concern expressed that the law is being too hard on the domestic terrorists who tried to overturn a presidential election by storming the Capitol)

As our nation faces a national disaster at the southern border,

I live near there. Gov. Gregg sent national guard down there, and the "disaster" is his doing...

Rotting fruit, spoiled vegetables: How Texas just made the supply chain even worse
A weeklong protest by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott against President Biden's recent immigration policy reached a resolution on Friday, but the gridlock it created has resulted in hundreds of millions of lost dollars and delays in shipments of everything from avocados to automobile parts that will have a longer-term impact.
On Friday, Abbott reversed course on an order he put in place last week that required lengthier "enhanced safety inspections" of commercial vehicles entering Texas. The efforts, he said, were to help stop the flow of illegal contraband and human trafficking.
Abbott's move, which Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller criticized as "political theater," ultimately created a logjam of trucks between the US and its largest goods trading partner. Vegetable producers say their produce is spoiling in idling trucks and they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars.
Rotting fruit, spoiled vegetables: How Texas just made the supply chain even worse - CNN

Insane as it sounds, republicans seem to have failed to even think about the consequences of these steps. BTW, since most illegal aliens now arrive by legal means and just overstay, Abbott's "political theater" did little or nothing to deal with the actual issue. And people thought DiSantis' gigantic tax cut for Disney and an equally large tax increase for Floridians was the dumbest move possible. This is worse.

fentanyl, sex trafficking

It's being investigated. They got one of the republicans doing it, but it remains to be seen if Gaetz gets indicted also.

(other off-topic projections)

Yeah. But fact remains the domestic terrorists were working for Trump, not Biden. That story fell apart immediately, when police started rounding them up, and they started talking.

 

[Valletta]

(concern expressed that the law is being too hard on the domestic terrorists who tried to overturn a presidential election by storming the Capitol)



I live near there. Gov. Gregg sent national guard down there, and the "disaster" is his doing...

Rotting fruit, spoiled vegetables: How Texas just made the supply chain even worse
A weeklong protest by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott against President Biden's recent immigration policy reached a resolution on Friday, but the gridlock it created has resulted in hundreds of millions of lost dollars and delays in shipments of everything from avocados to automobile parts that will have a longer-term impact.
On Friday, Abbott reversed course on an order he put in place last week that required lengthier "enhanced safety inspections" of commercial vehicles entering Texas. The efforts, he said, were to help stop the flow of illegal contraband and human trafficking.
Abbott's move, which Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller criticized as "political theater," ultimately created a logjam of trucks between the US and its largest goods trading partner. Vegetable producers say their produce is spoiling in idling trucks and they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars.
Rotting fruit, spoiled vegetables: How Texas just made the supply chain even worse - CNN

Insane as it sounds, republicans seem to have failed to even think about the consequences of these steps. BTW, since most illegal aliens now arrive by legal means and just overstay, Abbott's "political theater" did little or nothing to deal with the actual issue. And people thought DiSantis' gigantic tax cut for Disney and an equally large tax increase for Floridians was the dumbest move possible. This is worse.

It's being investigated. They got one of the republicans doing it, but it remains to be seen if Gaetz gets indicted also.

(other off-topic projections)

Yeah. But fact remains the domestic terrorists were working for Trump, not Biden. That story fell apart immediately, when police started rounding them up, and they started talking.

I'm not a fan of either of the two major parties, both have a good share of corruption. As to the border crisis, the border states are in an extremely difficult situation with Joe apparently going ahead to lift Title 42. The cartels will be so enabled and the repercussions could last for the rest of this century.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm not a fan of either of the two major parties, both have a good share of corruption. As to the border crisis, the border states are in an extremely difficult situation with Joe apparently going ahead to lift Title 42.

Actually, according to Texas, illegal immigrants are more law-abiding than native-born Americans.
PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

And data compiled by a republican Comptroller shows that illegal immigrants add billions of dollars to the Texas economy:
Illegahttps://www.newsmax.com/Pre-2008/Illegals-Add-$18-Billion/2006/12/08/id/685472/ls Add $18 Billion to Texas Economy: Report
Illegals Add $18 Billion to Texas Economy: Report

the repercussions could last for the rest of this century.

Hopefully. Most of us think lower crime rates and a healthy economy are good things.

 

[Aldebaran]

According to law:
Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5),
and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United
States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...orism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

Did the attack on the Capitol involve acts dangerous to human life? Yep. Killed some people, in fact.

Did it violate criminal laws? Yep. A large number of the terrorists have been convicted of such crimes.

Did it appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population and influence the policy of the government by intimidation or coercion? Yep. Trump told them to do that. Many of the insurrectionists admitted the fact.

Was it intended to affect the conduct of the government by destruction, assassination or kidnapping? Yep. Even had a gallows built to hang the vice president.

Did it occur within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States? Yep.

Feel free to show that they didn't do all those things caught on video. What do you have?



Specifically, U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5); that's the law.



I'd be tempted to bail out, too, if I had all that to explain away. As you now realize, the relevant law nicely describes what the insurrectionists were doing.

But yes, this thread isn't about the domestic terrorists who attacked the U.S. Capitol. It's about a single person who was also breaking the law, and apparently tried to harm an officer trying to do his job. If he was actually grabbing for the officer's taser, then it's not surprising or criminal that he was shot. Same goes for the terrorists. Police seem to have been remarkably restrained, only shooting one of them.

The justice system is dealing with the rest. FBI is still poring through social media to identify more of them.

If you believe that me asking for you to back up your claims is "bailing out", I'm not sure what else I can do to help you.