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The Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Nov 15, 2011
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Again you say it is not the Bible but
the servant of the Lord says it is.

"How long will you hate and despise the
messengers of God's righteousness?
The Lord has given them HIS MESSAGE.
They bear THE WORD OF THE LORD:
There is salvation for you but only through
the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of
the Holy Spirit has been offered to you
again and again
." Testimonies to Ministers,
p.96-97.

Here we are clearly told that this teaching
is the Word of the Lord which is in perfect
harmony with the Gospel of the Reformers
of the Sixteenth century.

Another Reformer wrote:

"Father, we had devised for ourselves many
useless follies but You have placed Your Word
before me like a torch and You have touched
my heart in order that I may hold in abomination
all other MERITS save those of Jesus
." The Great
Controversy, 221.

Again, we are under obligation to believe.

sky
 
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When this most precious message was presented
before the people in 1888, with freshness and
power, prejudices and opinions, especially
on the part of the religious leaders, stood
in the way of it being received, believed,
and acted upon. And today these prejudices
and opinions are not dead by any means.

We have been warned that "If this attitude
is preserved, then when the Lord shall again
let His light shine upon the people, they will
turn from the heavenly illumination
." 1 S.M.143.

"The Prejudices and the opinions that
prevailed at Minneapolis are not dead by
any means; the seeds sown there in some
hearts are ready to spring into life and bear
a like harvest. The tops have been cut
down, but the roots have never been
eradicated, and they still bear their unholy
fruit to poison the judgment, pervert the
perceptions, and blind the understanding
of those with whom you connect, in regard
to the message and the messengers. When,
by thorough confession, you destroy the
root of bitterness, you will see light in God's
light. Without this thorough work you will never
clear your souls
." Testimonies to Ministers,
p.467.

Be careful how you treat this message. Take
off the shoes from off your feet for you are
on holy ground. (T.M.89-90)

sky
 
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Castaway57

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Again you say it is not the Bible but
the servant of the Lord says it is.

"How long will you hate and despise the
messengers of God's righteousness?
The Lord has given them HIS MESSAGE.
They bear THE WORD OF THE LORD:
There is salvation for you but only through
the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of
the Holy Spirit has been offered to you
again and again
." Testimonies to Ministers,
p.96-97.
Wrong. This is not "the word of the Lord," it is from the writings of Ellen White, and she is not the Author of any Scripture. Again, if you would read and quote in context, you would first note that she says how such of her writings "bear the Word of the Lord;" but they are not Bible. Bearing the word of the Lord, and being the Word of the Lord are two different things. You "bear it" all the time, but without the correct context; thus, like the devil's example in mat 4, concocting a false gospel by only selecting snippets that APPEAR to give your views credence. Falsehood is falsehood, and your theories here are some of the best.
 
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Castaway57

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Be careful how you treat this message. Take
off the shoes from off your feet for you are
on holy ground. (T.M.89-90)

sky
Once again; out of context by miles for this subject.

First, Kellogg did not support this "precious message;" and second, I only "take my shoes off," if I actually am on holy ground, and the only thing that makes "holy ground" is God's presence, according to scripture. By misquoting this passage of Ellen White's in this context, you pit her against Scripture, and give a false gospel.

I would be willing to bet you can't/wont tell us from scripture or EGW, what this "most precious message" even is.

Oh, yes, you will quote-whip us again with EGW, but will we ever find out exactly what that message is from what you post? It's looking pretty doubtful.

Just as you continue to evade any in-depth examination of your theories here on what the gospel actually is, I imagine you will also never be able to tell us what is meant by "appropriate" Christ's merits, or to give us a definitive list of said merits.
 
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Castaway57

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You did say a few posts ago that all we have to do is to "claim" those "merits," so where is that in scripture? Do you even know what EGW means by this? So far, you have not posted that information either.

Really, all you have done is to change this subject on Kellogg to a different topic....pretty smooth.
 
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I trust that you understand that I reply to your posts
for the sake of those who might be following this thread.

Anyone who is guided by the Holy Spirit will be able to
distinguish between the work of God and that of man.

"If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift
away from Bible truth
." Testimonies, Vol.5. 674.

"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will
explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained
by Scripture. Many will read with eagerness the
messages reproving wrong that they may learn what
they may do to be saved
. Light will dawn upon the
understanding, and the Spirit will make an impression
on minds, as Bible truth is clearly and simply presented
in the messages that since 1846 God has been sending
His people
. These messages are to find their place in
hearts, and transformations will take place
." 1 S.M.
42.

So if any man comes with any suggestion that the
Testimonies of the Spirit of Christ do not present
Bible truth, do not receive him for,

"As the end draws near and the work of giving the last
warning to the world extends, it becomes more important
for those who accept present truth to have a clear
understanding of the nature and influence of the
Testimonies, which God in His providence has linked
with the work of the third angel's message from its
very rise
. " Testimonies, vol.5,654.

It is in the book Testimonies to Ministers that we find
some of the clearest testimonies as to what the third
angel's message is in light of the merits and righteousness
of Christ. To ignore these messages will result in us drifting
away from Bible truth.

This is one of the most solemn warnings that the Lord has
sent to us.

Will we heed this warning and receive the precious rays
of light from the Throne?

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's
righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear
the Word of the Lord: There is salvation for you but only
through the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy
Spirit has been offered to you again and again
." T.M.
96-97.

This, brothers and sisters, is Bible truth, the Bible truth
on this subject that is so necessary to our present and
eternal welfare, the Bible truth that the Reformers
discovered from studying the Scriptures. This is the
truth that the enemy is fighting against all the time
.

"Man can do no meritorious work; the grace of God, which
he receives by faith in the MERITS of Christ alone, saves
him
." Martin Luther, Daubigne's History of the Reformation
of the Sixteenth Century, p.337.

Where did Mrs. White and Luther get this teaching that we
receive the grace of God by which we are to be saved through
faith in the merits of Christ alone?

From the Scriptures.

It is in the Scriptures such as Romans 3:25 and Titus 2:11
but we do not understand it. (F.W.64) That is why the Lord
has sent to us these precious rays of light from the Throne.

Yes many believe that we are saved by grace but the part
that they miss is the how to obtain this grace which is by
faith in the merits of Christ. We must daily appropriate His
merits to ourselves by claiming them.

And if someone asks what the merits of Christ are that we
may claim them, tell him or her that they are the merits of
His infinite sacrifice, the merits of the blood that was shed
for us upon Calvary's cross, and remember that this blood
is of value beyond estimate and therefore full of divine merits.
The Good News is that it is our privilege to claim them! Unless
we do this on a daily basis we cannot be saved. (T.M.93)

The angels of God eagerly look to see who will avail themselves
of this opportunity.

So let us be very careful here how we treat this most precious
message. Let us take off the shoes from off our feet for we
are on holy ground and we are definitely under obligation to
believe.

sky
 
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Castaway57

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I trust that you understand that I reply to your posts
for the sake of those who might be following this thread.

Anyone who is guided by the Holy Spirit will be able to
distinguish between the work of God and that of man.

"If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift
away from Bible truth
." Testimonies, Vol.5. 674.

"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will
explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained
by Scripture. Many will read with eagerness the
messages reproving wrong that they may learn what
they may do to be saved
. Light will dawn upon the
understanding, and the Spirit will make an impression
on minds, as Bible truth is clearly and simply presented
in the messages that since 1846 God has been sending
His people
. These messages are to find their place in
hearts, and transformations will take place
." 1 S.M.
42.

So if any man comes with any suggestion that the
Testimonies of the Spirit of Christ do not present
Bible truth, do not receive him for,
The problem here is that you are suggesting I have said that the testimonies do not present truth; and that I have "lost confidence" in them, when this is the farthest thing from the truth of the matter. I would challenge you to show exactly where and how I have said this even once. Apparently, you have no other way of response now than to accuse like this, out of context, anyone who questions you.

From the beginning, I have always stated that you are using Ellen White's writings wrong, in ways that both she and our church would condemn, I have given you clear references to show you just why I say this. You cant even give references for all this Kellogg hub bub.

Anyone who looks into this question can see that the testimonies or the Bible do not infact present truth if they are deliberately and defiantly misused out of context. The example I gave from Mat 4 would show this clearly - how Satan quoted only a small portion of the verse from Psalms in order to try to lend credence to the temptation he was trying to deceive Jesus with. This is exactly what you are doing here, quoting only small portions of whatever you deem will lend credence to your own personal theories and doctrines, in complete defiance of the official beliefs of the Adventist Church. This is an Adventist forum, and people are not supposed to come here and do what you are doing, according to forum rules. But going by your actions, you apparently dont care about those either.

I am not concerned about why you reply to my posts, or even if you do. You need to admit that you are wrong in using the testimonies to establish doctrine, and you need to tell us why on earth you would even use such writings from a church that you so bitterly condemn, and you have even said in another thread that Mrs White was "deceived" because of her views on another matter, yet you use those same writings to turn on the church and rip up every belief we have.

I am sorry my friend, but you do not present the gospel here at all; it looks like you are simply presenting your own bitterness against the Adventist Church, and I find that a sad thing. I feel bad for you, because I have been there before too. I know what it feels like. And I used to present many of the same arguments as you are here.

While some of your Jesus talk sounds good at first glance; you have twisted the whole "merits of Christ" thing into something Ellen White never intended. You even told me a few posts ago that all we have to do is to "claim them" You are making faith our Savior, instead of Jesus. And you are drawing attention to yourself, not Him.

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Castaway57

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"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will
explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained
by Scripture. Many will read with eagerness the
messages reproving wrong that they may learn what
they may do to be saved
. Light will dawn upon the
understanding, and the Spirit will make an impression
on minds, as Bible truth is clearly and simply presented
in the messages that since 1846 God has been sending
His people
. These messages are to find their place in
hearts, and transformations will take place
." 1 S.M.

So let us be very careful here how we treat this most precious
message. Let us take off the shoes from off our feet for we
are on holy ground and we are definitely under obligation to
believe.

sky
If you truly believed, and desired to follow this counsel of Ellen White yourself, then you would do atleast three things:

1/ You would give us references for where you got the materials for this alleged "Kellogg interview." We have a right to view and study for ourselves any material posted here that is anti-Adventist in nature, and we should not have to be asked by you or anyone to just believe because you say it, as this is an Adventist forum, not an anti-Adventist one.

2/ You would not post partial or false views of Kellogg and his doctrines, or of the church's opinions thereof. You would accept any and all counsel by Ellen White on this man and his teachings, not just the limited portions which you are posting.

3/ You would stop using Ellen White's writings in ways she said not to; especially to try to turn them against the church, the way you keep doing here, and make it look as though she no longer supports it. If you are so opposed to our church, you should not even be quoting her.

The fact remains that you have been secretive about your source for the alleged Kellogg interview, and you have been very selective in what you posted, for it is clear that Ellen White condemned in no uncertain terms Kellogg and his apostate beliefs:

Beware

Washington, D.C., August 7, 1904

My Dear Brother:


I am given a message to bear to you and the rest of our physicians who are connected with the Medical Missionary Association. Separate from the influence exerted by the book Living Temple; [A 568-PAGE BOOK ISSUED IN 1903 BY DR. J. H. KELLOGG IN WHICH PANTHEISTIC PHILOSOPHIES WERE PROMULGATED.--COMPILERS.] for it contains specious sentiments. There are in it sentiments that are entirely true, but these are mingled with error. Scriptures are taken out of their connection, and are used to uphold erroneous theories. {1SM 199.1}

The thought of the errors contained in this book has given me great distress, and the experience that I have passed through in connection with the matter has nearly cost me my life. {1SM 199.2}

It will be said that Living Temple has been revised. But the Lord has shown me that the writer has not changed, and that there can be no unity between him and the ministers of the gospel while he continues to cherish his present sentiments. I am bidden to lift my voice in warning to our people, saying, "Be not deceived; God is not mocked" (Galatians 6:7). {1SM 199.3}

You have had access to Testimonies for the Church, volumes 7 and 8. In these Testimonies the danger signal is raised. But the light so clear and plain to minds that have not been influenced by deceptive theories, has not been discerned by some. While the misleading theories of this book are entertained by our physicians, there cannot be union between them and the ministers who are bearing the gospel message. There should be no union until there is a change. {1SM 199.4}

When medical missionaries make their practice and example harmonize with the name they bear, when they feel their need of uniting firmly with the ministers of the gospel, then there can be harmonious action. But we must firmly refuse to be drawn away from the platform of eternal truth, which since 1844 has stood the test. {1SM 199.5}

Alpha Presented in "Living Temple"

I am instructed to speak plainly. "Meet it," is the word spoken to me. "Meet it firmly, and without delay." But it is not to be met by our taking our working forces from the field to investigate doctrines and points of difference. We have no such investigation to make. In the book Living Temple there is presented the alpha of deadly heresies. The omega will follow, and will be received by those who are not willing to heed the warning God has given. {1SM 200.1}

Our physicians, upon whom important responsibilities rest, should have clear spiritual discernment. They are to stand constantly on guard. Dangers that we do not now discern will soon break upon us, and I greatly desire that they shall not be deceived. I have an intense longing to see them standing free in the Lord. I pray that they may have courage to stand firm for the truth as it is in Jesus, holding fast the beginning of their confidence unto the end.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, pp. 49, 50. {1SM 200.2}

Unfortunately, what you are posting here would come under the following criteria:

There are in it sentiments that are entirely true, but these are mingled with error. Scriptures are taken out of their connection, and are used to uphold erroneous theories. {1SM 199.1}

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Castaway57

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Chap. 25 - The Foundation of Our Faith
[THIS
ARTICLE APPEARED IN SPECIAL TESTIMONIES,
SERIES B, NO. 2, PAGES 51-59, PUBLISHED IN 1904.]

-
The Lord will put new, vital force into His work as human agencies obey the command to go forth and proclaim the truth. He who declared that His truth would shine forever will proclaim this truth through faithful messengers, who will give the trumpet a certain sound. The truth will be criticized, scorned, and derided; but the closer it is examined and tested, the brighter it will shine. {1SM 201.1}

As a people, we are to stand firm on the platform of eternal truth that has withstood test and trial. We are to hold to the sure pillars of our faith. The principles of truth that God has revealed to us are our only true foundation. They have made us what we are. The lapse of time has not lessened their value. It is the constant effort of the enemy to remove these truths from their setting, and to put in their place spurious theories. He will bring in everything that he possibly can to carry out his deceptive designs. But the Lord will raise up men of keen perception, who will give these truths their proper place in the plan of God. {1SM 201.2}

I have been instructed by the heavenly messenger that some of the reasoning in the book Living Temple is unsound, and that this reasoning would lead astray the minds of those who are not thoroughly established on the foundation principles of present truth. It introduces that which is nought but speculation in regard to the personality of God and where His presence is. No one on this earth has a right to speculate on this question. The more fanciful theories are discussed, the less men will know of God and of the truth that sanctifies the soul. {1SM 201.3}

One and another come to me, asking me to explain the positions taken in Living Temple. I reply, "They are unexplainable." The sentiments expressed do not give a true knowledge of God. All through the book are passages of Scripture. These scriptures are brought in in such a way that error is made to appear as truth. Erroneous theories are presented in so pleasing a way that unless care is taken, many will be misled. {1SM 202.1}

We need not the mysticism that is in this book. Those who entertain these sophistries will soon find themselves in a position where the enemy can talk with them, and lead them away from God. It is represented to me that the writer of this book is on a false track. He has lost sight of the distinguishing truths for this time. He knows not whither his steps are tending. The track of truth lies close beside the track of error, and both tracks may seem to be one to minds which are not worked by the Holy Spirit, and which, therefore, are not quick to discern the difference between truth and error. {1SM 202.2}

A View of Approaching Danger

About the time that Living Temple was published, there passed before me in the night season, representations indicating that some danger was approaching, and that I must prepare for it by writing out the things God had revealed to me regarding the foundation principles of our faith. A copy of Living Temple was sent me, but it remained in my library, unread. From the light given me by the Lord, I knew that some of the sentiments advocated in the book did not bear the endorsement of God, and that they were a snare that the enemy had prepared for the last days. I thought that this would surely be discerned, and that it would not be necessary for me to say anything about it. {1SM 202.3}

In the controversy that arose among our brethren regarding the teachings of this book, those in favor of giving it a wide circulation declared: "It contains the very sentiments that Sister White has been teaching." This assertion struck right to my heart. I felt heartbroken; for I knew that this representation of the matter was not true. {1SM 203.1}

Finally my son said to me, "Mother, you ought to read at least some parts of the book, that you may see whether they are in harmony with the light that God has given you." He sat down beside me, and together we read the preface, and most of the first chapter, and also paragraphs in other chapters. As we read, I recognized the very sentiments against which I had been bidden to speak in warning during the early days of my public labors.

When I first left the State of Maine, it was to go through Vermont and Massachusetts, to bear a testimony against these sentiments. Living Temple contains the alpha of these theories. I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God. The statements made in Living Temple in regard to this point are incorrect. The scripture used to substantiate the doctrine there set forth, is scripture misapplied. {1SM 203.2}

I am compelled to speak in denial of the claim that the teachings of Living Temple can be sustained by statements from my writings. There may be in this book expressions and sentiments that are in harmony with my writings. And there may be in my writings many statements which, taken from their connection, and interpreted according to the mind of the writer of Living Temple, would seem to be in harmony with the teachings of this book. This may give apparent support to the assertion that the sentiments in Living Temple are in harmony with my writings. But God forbid that this sentiment should prevail. {1SM 203.3}

Few can discern the result of entertaining the sophistries advocated by some at this time. But the Lord has lifted the curtain, and has shown me the result that would follow. The spiritualistic theories regarding the personality of God, followed to their logical conclusion, sweep away the whole Christian economy. They estimate as nothing the light that Christ came from heaven to give John to give to His people. They teach that the scenes just before us are not of sufficient importance to be given special attention. They make of no effect the truth of heavenly origin, and rob the people of God of their past experience, giving them instead a false science. {1SM 203.4}

In a vision of the night I was shown distinctly that these sentiments have been looked upon by some as the grand truths that are to be brought in and made prominent at the present time. I was shown a platform, braced by solid timbers--the truths of the Word of God. Someone high in responsibility in the medical work was directing this man and that man to loosen the timbers supporting this platform. Then I heard a voice saying, "Where are the watchmen that ought to be standing on the walls of Zion? Are they asleep? This foundation was built by the Master Worker, and will stand storm and tempest. Will they permit this man to present doctrines that deny the past experience of the people of God? The time has come to take decided action." {1SM 204.1}

The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work.

The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2}

Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1}

I hesitated and delayed about the sending out of that which the Spirit of the Lord impelled me to write. I did not want to be compelled to present the misleading influence of these sophistries. But in the providence of God, the errors that have been coming in must be met. {1SM 205.2}

An Iceberg! "Meet It"

Shortly before I sent out the testimonies regarding the efforts of the enemy to undermine the foundation of our faith through the dissemination of seductive theories, I had read an incident about a ship in a fog meeting an iceberg. For several nights I slept but little. I seemed to be bowed down as a cart beneath sheaves. One night a scene was clearly presented before me. A vessel was upon the waters, in a heavy fog. Suddenly the lookout cried, "Iceberg just ahead!" There, towering high above the ship, was a gigantic iceberg.

An authoritative voice cried out, "Meet it!" There was not a moment's hesitation. It was a time for instant action. The engineer put on full steam, and the man at the wheel steered the ship straight into the iceberg. With a crash she struck the ice. There was a fearful shock, and the iceberg broke into many pieces, falling with a noise like thunder to the deck. The passengers were violently shaken by the force of the collisions, but no lives were lost. The vessel was injured, but not beyond repair. She rebounded from the contact, trembling from stem to stern, like a living creature. Then she moved forward on her way. {1SM 205.3}

Well I knew the meaning of this representation. I had my orders. I had heard the words, like a voice from our Captain, "Meet it!" I knew what my duty was, and that there was not a moment to lose. The time for decided action had come. I must without delay obey the command, "Meet it!". {1SM 206.1}

That night I was up at one o'clock, writing as fast as my hand could pass over the paper. For the next few days I worked early and late, preparing for our people the instruction given me regarding the errors that were coming in among us. {1SM 206.2}

I have been hoping that there would be a thorough reformation, and that the principles for which we fought in the early days, and which were brought out in the power of the Holy Spirit, would be maintained. {1SM 206.3}
 
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Castaway57

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The material for the next two posts are an exerpt from a book called

How the Spirit of Prophecy Met a Crisis:
Memories and Notes of the "Living Temple" Controversy
by W. A. Spicer

It details how Mrs White tried to warn AT Jones about the dangers of parleying with Kellogg and his dark theories

Counsels of Safety

The message, "Decided Action to be Taken Now" came to the Washington Autumn Council of 1903. One of our veteran ministers and teachers was present. (A. T. J.) He had planned to spend sometime at our oldest health institution to give the large family of workers there help that he felt he could give. He had been in cooperative sympathy with the promoters of the new teaching, but did not realize that this meant any change in his relation to the Advent Message.

When the message of the Spirit of prophecy, "Decided Action to be Taken Now," was read in the M-Street church that day in Washington, he spoke a few words of acceptance of the instruction.

His plans however were to go on to the old center as he had arranged. But later messages from Mrs. White urged that he should not do this, that he and others should keep away from contact with this propaganda that was at work. I recall how strong he felt, how well able he appeared to take care of himself. He said to us in effect"

"I am going to the sanitarium, and I am going to preach the third angel's message to the workers there just as I have always preached it."

So he went. But so far as the third angel's message was concerned he surely lost touch with it, measured by standards that represented its place in building up this movement, form the days of 1844. It was not long before his influence was merged with the work of those who had forsaken the old paths.

Under date of August 1, the next year (1904) Mrs. White had a message for a little group, including our former strong teacher, telling what her Instructor had said concerning their danger:

"To Brother A.T.J. He said, 'Why have you permitted your mind to be worked as it had been? I warned you not to permit this.'"

To another of the group it had been said that a hypnotic influence was upon him, and he was exhorted, for Christ's sake, to break the spell. The teaching that was abroad was of a spiritualistic nature. It was a supreme effort of the great deceiver to get into the movement. No man's strength is sufficient to stand against spiritualistic philosophy if he puts himself in friendly contact with it. His only safety is in the attitude of constant mental and spiritual opposition to it. "Men in positions of responsibility, " we were told at that time, "are in danger of changing leaders." (Series B No. 2, p. 48.)

There was a hypnotic power in the teaching, as some of us knew, and it was not to be curiously looked at or studied to see what it was composed of. It is like a "live" wire. The very power of death is in it. The atmosphere of its promotion was deadly, and only by open hostility to it in the name of the Lord, could one safely have anything to do with it.

In a message of 1904, entitled, "the Great Controversy," we were told:

"Those who feel so very peaceable in regard to the works of the men who are spoiling the faith of the people of God, are guided by a delusive sentiment.

"There is to be a constant conflict between good and evil.... If this matter were rightly understood and closely guarded, God's servants would feel a continual burden of responsibility to counterwork the efforts of the men who do not know what they are about, because they are enchanted by the delusive allurements of Satan." Series B No. 2 p. 11.

The formerly strong leader thought he could go safely with these influences. "I am going there, " he told us; "and I am going to preach the third angel's message just as I have always preached it." But it was not long until, without knowing it , he was opposing things that in all our history had built up this movement. He had early persuaded one of our younger ministers, (C. L. Taylor) a very kind and conscientious man, to come and
help the spiritual interests in the great institution.

This brother knew little of what had been going on. His six months' effort, and his statement as he tendered his resignation, show how truly the Spirit of prophecy counseled in representing the impossibility of serving the cause of truth in cooperative association with a propaganda of error and opposition to the denominational organization. In his parting letter of May 31, 1906, a copy of which he sent me, this younger minister said to the management of the institution:
 
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Castaway57

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Counsels of Safety: Part Two

"In my letter to Elder (A.T.J.), stating the conditions under which I could come, I announced that I would not come to take part in any partisan effort....In coming to Battle Creek and joining in the work here, I did not believe it necessary, much less plan, to be any less Seventh-day Adventist in my views and methods and practices."

He tells how Elder (J) had assured him the plan was to ignore controversy, and seek to place the work on such a basis that our people would have to acknowledge it as the work of God and give it cooperation as aforetime. But, he said, all were "painfully conscious" that it did not work out. He felt to acknowledge that he himself was drawn into attitudes that did not "encourage respect for the Spirit of prophecy."

The College there had been reopened, and the Spirit of prophecy had counseled that the environments were such that the old headquarters was not the place for our young people to get their education for this cause. Our brother says he had planned to take up revival work for the young people from the first. But he was asked to promote the school matter first. He wrote about it:

"But from the day that I undertook the circulation of the schools calendar my influence with the young people was canceled. (Most of the workers were Adventists, and they evidently expected to see their ministerial leaders stand for the Adventist faith.) I did not know the real status of the family, or I should certainly have utterly refused to take any part in pushing the school work; and you did not know the conditions, else you would
never have allowed me to do what you asked. From inquiries made, I gathered that the helpers, in spirit and in practice, were in sympathy with the management; but such was not the case.... They were looking to see whether I would at once begin to help improve existing conditions or whether I would join in what appeared to them as a work contrary to the Spirit of prophecy.

Looking back upon those days I wonder that the young people were as patient with some of us as they were....

"I wanted at the very first to have a study of the Testimonies; but I found no one else having a burden in that direction, and my efforts proved fruitless. But suppose at the beginning we had all done that very thing—had studied the instruction, had seen clearly our need of divine help, and had made suitable acknowledgment of our sins, and together had mutually and determinedly kept at the work; would we not have seen different results? And should we wonder that the helpers, so many of them, after waiting in vain for that very thing, left for other parts?"

The brother had had no contact with the situation that enabled him to understand that it was impossible to bring about spiritual conditions while keeping in harmonious touch with elements promoting positive error. The helpers evidently knew the issue better than their teachers. Many of them passed on.

Others remained but took a positive stand against error and held firmly to the church of their faith. Our brother who was drawn in to help, saw how impossible was his position, and the story of his six months' effort and withdrawal shows how truly the Spirit of prophecy had spoken in warning the older worker that he could not safely undertake his purpose. As it was, ere long our former veteran brother was an open critic of the denominational organization and a scornful critic even of the gift that had formerly held his loyalty.

There is no way of neutrality or of keeping peace with both sides, When the issue of truth and error comes to the dividing point. In those days the Spirit of prophecy said:

"When God's people are fully awake to the danger of the hour, and work fully on Christ's side, there will be seen a sharp contrast between their course and that of those who are saying, ' Good Lord and good devil,' and we shall see much firmer and more decided work done to counter-work the schemes of Satanic agencies."—Series B, No. 2, p. 11, 1904.
 
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Anyone who is guided by the Holy Spirit will be able to
distinguish between the work of God and that of man.

"If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift
away from Bible truth
." Testimonies, Vol.5. 674.

"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will
explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained
by Scripture. Many will read with eagerness the
messages reproving wrong that they may learn what
they may do to be saved
. Light will dawn upon the
understanding, and the Spirit will make an impression
on minds, as Bible truth is clearly and simply presented
in the messages that since 1846 God has been sending
His people
. These messages are to find their place in
hearts, and transformations will take place
." 1 S.M.
42.

So if any man comes with any suggestion that the
Testimonies of the Spirit of Christ do not present
Bible truth, do not receive him for,

"As the end draws near and the work of giving the last
warning to the world extends, it becomes more important
for those who accept present truth to have a clear
understanding of the nature and influence of the
Testimonies, which God in His providence has linked
with the work of the third angel's message from its
very rise
. " Testimonies, vol.5,654.

It is in the book Testimonies to Ministers that we find
some of the clearest testimonies as to what the third
angel's message is in light of the merits and righteousness
of Christ. To ignore these messages will result in us drifting
away from Bible truth.

This is one of the most solemn warnings that the Lord has
sent to us.

Will we heed this warning and receive the precious rays
of light from the Throne?

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's
righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear
the Word of the Lord: There is salvation for you but only
through the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy
Spirit has been offered to you again and again
." T.M.
96-97.

This, brothers and sisters, is Bible truth, the Bible truth
on this subject that is so necessary to our present and
eternal welfare, the Bible truth that the Reformers
discovered from studying the Scriptures. This is the
truth that the enemy is fighting against all the time
.

"Man can do no meritorious work; the grace of God, which
he receives by faith in the MERITS of Christ alone, saves
him
." Matin Luther, Daubigne's History of the Reformation
of the Sixteenth Century, p.337.

Where did Mrs. White and Luther get this teaching that we
receive the grace of God by which we are to be saved through
faith in the merits of Christ alone?

From the Scriptures.

It is in the Scriptures such as Romans 3:25 and Titus 2:11
but we do not understand it. (F.W.64) That is why the Lord
has sent to us these precious rays of light from the Throne.

Yes many believe that we are saved by grace but the part
that they miss is the how to obtain this grace which is by
faith in the merits of Christ. We must daily appropriate His
merits to ourselves by claiming them.

And if someone asks what the merits of Christ are that we
may claim them, tell him or her that they are the merits of
His infinite sacrifice, the merits of the blood that was shed
for us upon Calvary's cross, and remember that this blood
is of value beyond estimate and therefore full of divine merits.
The Good News is that it is our privilege to claim them! Unless
we do this on a daily basis we cannot be saved. (T.M.93)

The angels of God eagerly look to see who will avail themselves
of this opportunity.

So let us be very careful here how we treat this most precious
message. Let us take off the shoes from off our feet for we
are on holy ground and we are definitely under obligation to
believe.

sky
 
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"You cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon
the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour
to bring Christ's righteousness into your life. Clothed
with the righteousness of Christ and not your own
righteousness you will not depend upon what you can
do or what you will do
" for "Christ's righteousness
accomplishes everything
." F.W.65-66,27.

Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything as
it works in us both to will and to do God's pleasure
(Phil.2:13) and God's good pleasure is expressed in
the precepts of His holy law. (Rom.2:18)

In Testimonies to Ministers, p.92, speaking of the 1888
message, we read, "It invited the people to receive the
righteousness of Christ which is made manifest in obedience
to all the commandments of God
."

We receive His righteousness by faith, by faith in the merits
of His shed blood. (Rom.3:25)

All the religions of this world teach salvation through the
merits of their good works but the true religion, the only
religion of the Bible teaches that there is salvation for us
through the grace of God (Titus 2:11) but only through
faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of
Christ. (Rom.3:25; 5:5; Gal.5:6; Rom.13:10; Rev.14:12.

This is the third angel's message.

One interest will prevail, one subject will swallow up
every other, the merits and righteousness of Jesus
Christ.

sky
 
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"The prejudices and the opinions that
prevailed at Minneapolis are not dead by
any means; the seeds sown there in some
hearts are ready to spring into life and bear
a like harvest. The tops have been cut
down, but the roots have never been
eradicated, and they still bear their unholy
fruit to poison the judgment, pervert the
perceptions, and blind the understanding
of those with whom you connect, in regard
to the message and the messengers
. When,
by thorough confession, you destroy the
root of bitterness, you will see light in God's
light. Without this thorough work you will never
clear your souls
." Testimonies to Ministers,
p.467.
 
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Castaway57

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"The prejudices and the opinions that
prevailed at Minneapolis are not dead by
any means; the seeds sown there in some
hearts are ready to spring into life and bear
a like harvest. The tops have been cut
down, but the roots have never been
eradicated, and they still bear their unholy
fruit to poison the judgment, pervert the
perceptions, and blind the understanding
of those with whom you connect, in regard
to the message and the messengers
. When,
by thorough confession, you destroy the
root of bitterness, you will see light in God's
light. Without this thorough work you will never
clear your souls
." Testimonies to Ministers,
p.467.
This topic is about Kellogg and the alleged interview, for which you have steadfastly refused to provide any references that we can check for ourselves. The posts above where I gave complete references shows Mrs White to be in total opposition to Kellogg and you have yet to prove her wrong.
 
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If the reader will take the time to read the whole thread
he will see that your questions have already been addressed.
You know this. Now because you can't refute that the
message of the merits and righteousness of Christ is from
Heaven, you bring the issue of Dr. Kellogg up to distract
us from that subject.


This is the message we are now focussing upon:

"Justice demanded the sufferings of man;
but Christ rendered the sufferings of a God.
He needed no atonement of suffering for
Himself; all His sufferings were for us; all
His MERITS and RIGHTEOUSNESS were open to
fallen man, presented as a gift
." E.G. White,
Bible Commentary, vol.7,913.

All the merits and righteousness of Christ are
presented to us as a gift to be claimed by
faith.

Either we claim the gift or we don't and we are
to claim this gift on a daily basis.

See what happens when we make it our lfe
business to claim the merits of the infinite
sufferings that Christ had to endure in our
behalf:

"Christ places His own merits upon man and thus
elevates him in the scales of moral value, with God
."
E.G. White, Our Father Cares, 121.

Can we fathom these words?

This is the Good News that the enemy is fighting
against all the time.

Here is why:

"It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to
possess Christ's nature, a nature far above
that which Adam forfeited by transgressio
n."
E.G. White, The Upward Look, 18.

This is food for thought. No wonder the devil and all
his minions are fighting against this stupendous truth
with all their hellish power. They are determined that
this message shall be hidden from humankind at all
cost. So far they have been very successful.

But the time has come for this message to become the
interest that will prevail and the subject that will
swallow up every other.

In 1888 Mrs. White wrote:

"You want to be like little children, hanging upon the merits
of a crucified and risen Saviour. Then you will be fortified.
How? The angels of God will be around you like a wall of fire;
the righteousness of Christ will go before you and the glory
of God will be your rearward. May God sanctify our tongues,
our thoughts, our minds, that we may dwell upon heavenly
themes, and that we may impart that knowledge to others."
E.G. White, Ms 9, 1891.

Then Isaiah 60:1-5 will be fulfilled. Then men will be captivated
by the glory of an abiding Christ.

sky
 
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Earlier you wrote:

f you are one of these "soldiers;" then you should be able to much better explain Mrs White's use of the word "merits" when she is referring to "the merits of Christ." It is a plural word she is using, and therefore, you should be able to give a complete list and description of said 'MERITS."

castaway
__________

This question has already been answered
by stating what is written. We cannot go
beyond what is written. (1 Cor.4:6)
We have read earlier that the merits of Christ are
the merits of His infinite sacrifce, the merits of His
shed blood.

They are the merits of His sufferings:

"We see in the midst of the throne One bearing
in hands and feet and side the marks of the
sufferings endured to reconcile man to God.
We see a Father, infinite, dwelling in light
unapproachable, yet receiving us to Himself
through the merits of His Son
." A.A.333.

This statement makes it crystal clear what the
merits of Christ are. They are the merits of the
sufferings He endured to reconcile man to God,
the merits of the blood that He shed, the merits
of the blood that is of value beyond estimate
because it was the Life of God in His Son that
was for us poured out upon Calvary's cross.

There is nothing more we can add.

Either we believe that "the MERITS of Christ's
sacrifice are SUFFICIENT to present to the Father
in our behalf
" (S.C.36) in order to obtain all the
blessings of the Covenant of Grace or we don't!

It is just as simple as that, just as simple as
receiving the alphabet.

Remember, "The matter of salvation is just as
simple as ABC
." (F.W.64)

Our part, which is our life business, is to lay right
hold by faith of the merits of a crucified and risen
Saviour. This is what we must do in order to be
saved. This is faith, even living faith, and this faith
is also the gift of God.

Today, as in 1888, we are invited to lay right
hold upon the merits of a Saviour who has
come in order to bring His righteousness
into our life that it may work in us both to
will and to do God's good pleasure.

We lay hold of His merits by claiming them.

"Unless he makes it his life business to behold
the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits
which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner
can no more be saved than Peter could walk
upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed
steadily upon Jesus.
" T.M.93.

In other words the sinner cannot be enabled
by the Holy Spirit to keep all the commandments
of God.

sky
 
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Castaway57

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If the reader will take the time to read the whole thread
he will see that your questions have already been addressed.
You know this. Now because you can't refute that the
message of the merits and righteousness of Christ is from
Heaven, you bring the issue of Dr. Kellogg up to distract
us from that subject.
sky
This is a very interesting accusation, given the fact that this thread is titled BY YOU as "The Interview With Dr Kellogg."
 
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What I meant is, What does Dr. Kellogg's
Interview have to do with the issue of the
subject of the merits and righteousness of
Christ?

This thread, if you have read it, is not
merely about Dr. Kellogg's interview.

It also includes the whole of A.T. Jones'
Appeal and the whole of Some History,
Some Experience, And Some Facts, and,
on page 22, #217, begins a study on the
true religion, the only religion of the Bible
which is what we have been discussing
ever since.

So why bring up Dr. kellogg's Interview
at this juncture when nothing has been
said about it for almost 6 pages? This
subject has been thoroughly covered
anyway including all that could be quoted
from Mrs. White on the subject.

sky

*Anf if one wishes to bring up the subject
of "accusations," I would have to say that
I cannot remember one post from you to me,
and there have been many, that was not an
accusation of some sort.
 
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Castaway57

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What I meant is, What does Dr. Kellogg's
Interview have to do with the issue of the
subject of the merits and righteousness of
Christ?

This thread, if you have read it, is not
merely about Dr. Kellogg's interview.

It also includes the whole of A.T. Jones'
Appeal and the whole of Some History,
Some Experience, And Some Facts, and,
on page 22, #217, begins a study on the
true religion, the only religion of the Bible
which is what we have been discussing
ever since.

So why bring up Dr. kellogg's Interview
at this juncture when nothing has been
said about it for almost 6 pages? This
subject has been thoroughly covered
anyway including all that could be quoted
from Mrs. White on the subject.

sky
lol, OK Whatever you say Sir. I can't change the title of the thread, or the fact that everytime I show from our official sources how Ellen White condemns Kellogg's views, that you change to a new area of "study" and avoid answering to the evidence presented, and providing the references for the alleged interview. If you did provide references for the interview portion of this thread; hopefully you can just post where it is, incase I actually did miss it.
 
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