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The Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Castaway57

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"The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." Faith & Works,64.

If you do you are greatly blessed and the Lord will rise upon you and His glory shall be seen upon you. (Isaiah 60:1)
It will be impossible for you to disguise all the dozens of posts before this, and the very inaccuracy, and inappropriateness of them with a couple of cursory posts involving "Jesus talk." The devil did some Jesus talk too, and while some people swallowed it; many did not because they knew that God's word said it differently. Satan's favorite trick is to quote small snippets of passages, and leave very important phrases/paragraphs out to distort the intended context (see Mat 4 for one of many examples).

The Ellen White quotes you give are such short statements; it is impossible for what you say in this post to reflect the context and actual meaning of what she intended when she penned the statements. And you have still not told us exactly where you got the "interview" materials or the other stuff you posted re Kellog. Can you provide us with complete references, books and page numbers for what you have been posting here? With so many serious and slanderous statements/insinuations about the Adventist Church in your previous posts; surely you can atleast do this for us?

And again; you are disobeying forum rules here for "Fellowship Posts."

You have even distorted the intended use/context for Isa 60:1 here If you look in the Bible; it words it much differently, from your use of "If you do this;" just preceding your reference to that text. This text in Isa does not say "if you do this;" it just says to "arise and shine" because our Light has already come, and it is this kind of light shining, that others will be attracted to and by which they will come to the same light as us. Here is the setting of the text;
Isa 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
Isa 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isa 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
Isaiah actually does not say how to get that light to shine on us by accepting a bunch of merits of some kind. He just tells us that it does; and we are told to "arise and shine" because of it. You need to give the correct context of those statements you keep using. Excusing away this request by saying how simple the gospel is and that explanation is not needed for your quotes, is simply not fair to anyone here.

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On another forum:

LW does have a point that you do nothing but regurgitate Sister White, regardless of whether you are right or wrong. By this you show that you have no foundation on which to stand during the final crisis.
__________

You say I have no foundation on which to stand. May I ask what yours is? Here is mine: "The MERITS of Christ's SACRIFICE are the FOUNDATION of the CHRISTIAN'S FAITH." The Great Controversy,73.

Pray tell me, should we talk of or extol our merits instead? Would that be more acceptable?

"Shall selfishness come into your hearts? And will those who set not before them the Pattern, Jesus, extol your merits? You have none except as they come through Jesus Christ." Bible Commentary, Vol.5,1128.

The importance of extolling the merits of Christ before the people was at the very heart of the most precious message the Lord sent to us over a century ago.

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear the Word of the Lord: There is SALVATION for you but ONLY through the MERITS of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." T.M.96-97.

If there was a time when these statements needed to be "regurgitated" it is now for this is the light that is to lighten the earth with its glory.
__________

EGW is not our foundation, the Word of God is. And if you cannot substantiate your ideas/opinions/views from the Word and the Word alone, your faith will be swept away as surely as the house that is built on sand.

AVITW
__________

It is not Ellen White that is the foundation but the Word the Lord declared through her was the foundation of the Christian's faith, namely the merits of a crucified and risen Savior.

This is the truth the Reformers discovered from studying the Scriptures. One of them wrote,

"Father, we had devised for ourselves many useless follies, but You have placed Your Word before me like a torch, and You have touched my heart, in order that I may hold in abomination all other MERITS save those of Jesus." The Great Controversy, p.221.

Luther wrote, "Do not look for salvation in your own strength or in your good works, but in the MERITS of Christ and in God's grace." History of the Reformation of the Sixteenth Century, D'Aubigne, p.78.
__________

Furthermore, you seem to not be able to form a reply without continually repeating merits, merits, merits, merits, etc. from Sister White's writings. You are hammering this in the wrong way. Instead of repeating the same phrase time and time again, which only alludes to the idea that you do not fully comprehend what the author means and what the term merits means, you should at least try to rephrase the quote in your own words without relying on a single word, which through a mindless repetition has lost its meaning to those to whom you keep hammering this to. You are only causing harm to the work of truth.
__________

To this I will reply with the words of the apostle Paul, "To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not irksome (tedious); but for you it is safe." Phil.3:1.

Are we not on safe grounds and even on holy grounds when we are extolling the merits of Christ as our ony hope?

"Those who live nearest to Jesus discern most clearly the frailty and sinfulness of humanity, and their ONLY HOPE is in the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour." G.C.471.

When the Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul declared that "Christ is our propitiation through faith in His blood," (Rom.3:25) was He not basically saying that the merits of Christ's sacrifice are the FOUNDATION of the Christian's faith?

He certainly was.

"Believe it because it is the truth, because God says it, and lay hold upon the MERITS of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour." Faith & Works,76.

"Take hold by faith of the MERITS of Christ and the soul-cleansing blood will be applied." Idem, 96.

"John, while in vision, saw a company clothed in white robes. They were seen in the Temple of God. This will be the result of all who will lay hold of the MERITS of Christ and wash their robes in His blood." Our Father Cares,339.

We lay hold of Christ's merits by claiming them.

sky
 
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More than a century ago, the Lord sent this testimony to us:

"The people to whom God has entrusted eternal interests, the depositaries of truth pregnant with eternal results, the keepers of light that is to illuminate the whole world, have LOST THEIR BEARINGS." T.M.397.

Is it not high time that we find our bearings back? We have been wandering in this wilderness of sin and sorrow for decades as did the children of Israel.

As they were wandering into the wilderness, the Israelites murmured against God and against Moses. The Lord allowed them to be bitten by fiery serpents. With the poison in their wounds "The people now humbled themselves before God. They came to Moses with their confessions and entreaties. 'We have sinned,' they said, 'for we have spoken against the Lord, and against you.'" P.P.429.

Then "Moses was divinely commanded to make a serpent of brass resembling the living ones, and to elevate it among the people." Idem,430.

"The lifting up of the brazen serpent was to teach Israel an important lesson." P.P.430.

"By looking upon that serpent their faith was shown. They knew that there was no virtue in the serpent itself, but it was a symbol of Christ; and the necessity of faith in His merits was thus PRESENTED to their minds." Idem,430.

To look upon the serpent of brass which was a symbol of Christ was to teach them the necessity of trusting wholly in the merits of a Saviour to come. Those who accepted the provision made were healed from the poison in their wounds but those who refused this provision perished.

The lesson for us today:

"Though millions who need to be healed will reject His offered mercy, NOT ONE WHO TRUSTS IN HIS MERITS WILL BE LEFT TO PERISH." Idem,432.

Are we not on safe grounds, then, if we make it our life business to look to Jesus and to trust in His merits which it is our privilege to claim?

"Faith is the condition upon which God has seen fit to promise pardon to sinners. Not that there is any virtue in faith whereby salvation is merited, but because FAITH can LAY HOLD of the MERITS of Christ, the REMEDY provided for sin." Faith & Works,100-101.

Brothers and sisters, if we are willing to see and understand, this is the very message which was presented to our people in 1888 and which was resisted! It is a message which is appropriate for this time, which is to be received, believed, and acted upon. It is the third angel's message which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice and attended with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in large measure for, "Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His MERITS we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, vol.5,744.

Is not the Holy Spirit the light of God's countenance? Is not the Holy Spirit the light of the glory of God that is to rise upon God's people in these last days? (Please compare Isaiah 60:1 with Isaiah 61:1) Is this not the glory prophesied by the prophet Isaiah?

"The glory Thou hast given Me, I have given them." John 17:22.

"Jesus is seeking to impress His disciples with the thought that in giving to us His Holy Spirit He is giving to us the glory which the Father has given Him that we might be one with God." E.G. White.
 
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"The work of the servants of God is to present Jesus.
The work for the ministers of Christ is to hang their
helpless souls upon His merit
." T.M.249.

Is this the work we are doing?

"In the apostasy, man alianated himself from God;
earth was cut off from Heaven. Across the gulf
that lay between, there could be no communion.
But through Christ, earth is again linked with
Heaven. With His own MERITS, Christ has
bridged the gulf which sin had made, so that
the ministering angels can hold communion with
man. Christ connects fallen man in his weakness
and helplessness with the Source of infinite
power
." Steps to Christ, 20.

So, again, what is our part?

Man's part is to lay hold by faith of the merits
of Christ (F.W.430) in order to bring His righteousness
into his life for His righteousness accomplishes every-
thing as it is made manifest in obedience to all
the commandments of God:

"You cannot explain this faith that lays right hold
upon the MERITS of the blood of a crucified and
risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into
your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ
and not your own righteousness, you will not
depend upon what you can do or what you will
do
," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes
everything
" as it is "made manifest in obedience
to all the commandments of God
." Faith & Works,
64-65,27; Testimonies to Ministers, 92.

Brother, sister, is this not the message of God
for this time? Is this not the light that is to
lighten the whole earth with its glory?

sky
 
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Castaway57

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More than a century ago, the Lord sent this testimony to us:

"The people to whom God has entrusted eternal interests, the depositaries of truth pregnant with eternal results, the keepers of light that is to illuminate the whole world, have LOST THEIR BEARINGS." T.M.397.

Is it not high time that we find our bearings back? We have been wandering in this wilderness of sin and sorrow for decades as did the children of Israel.
1/ You consistently use her writings in such a way as to try to critisize the very church she loved and supported throughout her ministry, and in all her writings

2/ You do not, in fact, dwell on this "merits of Christ" business as you say you do. That is nothing but a smoke screen. Your real purpose here is quite evident, and it seems you will stop at nothing to "show" how "wrong" the Adventist Church is. Forum participants can go to any topic you have started here and see for themselves how you mix in about 5% Jesus talk, with 95% criticism and accusing talk so don't tell us what you dwell on because we can see for ourselves.

3/ Even though you have been told many times that the church's official teaching tells us not to use Mrs White's writings as "Bible," or to establish doctrine; you continue to do just that, showing a very willful and determined disregard for our official teachings. Using so many short/partial phrases from her writings accomplished just what the devil did in Mat 4 and actually does not relate the correct gospel to anyone. It leaves out important things that we should be getting from scripture.

The devil used partial quotes of scripture there to try to give "scriptural" support for what he was actually saying, and this is the lesson people can learn here too with how you use Mrs White's writings. A little bit of truth mixed with a lot of blatant error is an excellent way to follow the devils example.

You have accused me of "hating the testimonies" and of being "a spiritual dwarf," among other things on this forum, just because I have tried to explain the official belief and position on what you are doing; but I happen to believe very strongly in Ellen White having the gift of prophecy and of her being a prophet; however, at the end of the day, she is not Bible. Never has been, never will be. And isnt now. Your attempts to "prove" that what she writes is "the same as scripture" are ludicrous, and leading people astray. She points people to the Bible, but what she writes is not scripture.

This thing you mention about "the merits of Christ" for eg. If that's all we had to do is to "dwell" on those; then the cross would be quite unecessary. His "merits" whatever that may be, are of course important to dwell on but in those statements where Ellen White mentions that word/phrase, about His merits," she is not saying that is the gospel. She is simply saying that we need to get our minds off of ourselves, and onto Jesus, and above all, such statements were only intended by her to point us to the Bible, and what the Bible says about the gospel, and of being saved.

By setting yourself onto some kind of religious auto-pilot mode and fixating on a few of her merit statements, out of their context, you neutralize the need for the cross, and teach people to use her writings as incantations. You do not quote in context, and it is giving people a very fuzzy concept of the gospel, and of our official beliefs. In Christianity, and in the Adventist church, the cross of Christ is the test of everything which deserves to be called Christian. With you; it's all this mumbo-jumbo, quoted out of context talk about the merits of Christ, and the alleged errors of the church. Do you even know what Mrs White was talking about when she used that kind of statement about the merits of Christ?

As in Mat 4, the devil focuses a lot on Christ's merits too. But this doesnt mean he has the gospel does it? The gospel is "Christ and Him crucified." (Gal 6:14). That's it. And that's why it's so simple. All other doctrines are vested with power and influence, according to their relation to this theme, is actually how Mrs White would put it, so you are twisting what she says away from this context, into the context where you show great delight in using her merit statements to insinuate how "wrong" the Adventist Church is. Kellogg did the same thing; and this is likely why you show such enthusiasm for posting his writings.

4/ Your persistance in refusing to provide current and accurate and specific references for where you are getting this material about the big "interview" from shows only one thing. You are hiding something.
 
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Castaway57

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"The work of the servants of God is to present Jesus. The work for the ministers of Christ is to hang their helpless souls upon His merit." T.M.249.

Is this the work we are doing?

sky
But you don't "present Jesus" unless you are challenged about all the errors of the church which you apparently love to espouse much more than you do "His merit."
 
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Castaway57

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"

So, again, what is our part?

Man's part is to lay hold by faith of the merits
of Christ (F.W.430) in order to bring His righteousness
into his life for His righteousness accomplishes every-
thing as it is made manifest in obedience to all
the commandments of God:

"You cannot explain this faith that lays right hold
upon the MERITS of the blood of a crucified and
risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into
your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ
and not your own righteousness, you will not
depend upon what you can do or what you will
do
," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes
everything
" as it is "made manifest in obedience
to all the commandments of God
." Faith & Works,
64-65,27; Testimonies to Ministers, 92.

Brother, sister, is this not the message of God
for this time? Is this not the light that is to
lighten the whole earth with its glory?

sky
No. You quote quite out of context. Your obedience mantra is what gives you away here. When you cease with your incantations and delve deeply into the scripture she is pointing to, you will have a much different message. Obedience is not optional; yet obedience is not "His righteousness." It doesnt sound like you know what is meant by "His righteousness" or how we can have it.
 
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Castaway57

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"Even if all the leading men should refuse light and truth... the Lord will raise up men who will give the people the message for this time." Testimonies to Ministers, 107.
"Even IF" is a phrase I guess you over-looked, and yes. Scripture tells us in many places that the gospel came most times from "recognized religious leaders." Jesus was one. There were many other in the Bible who would qualify. Your quotes here are a smoke screen to detract from the questions I just asked you.
 
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Castaway57

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Did the message of God come from the recognized religious leaders in the days of Christ? Did the message of God come from the recognized religious leaders in the days of the Reformation?
The point here is simply that what you present here is NOT the gospel.
 
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"The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." Steps to Christ, 36.

"The merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are the foundation of the Christian's faith." The Great Controversy, 73.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, vol.5,744.

So are you saying that this is not the Gospel?
 
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"In the apostasy, man alianated himself from God;
earth was cut off from Heaven. Across the gulf
that lay between, there could be no communion.
But through Christ, earth is again linked with
Heaven. With His own MERITS, Christ has
bridged the gulf which sin had made, so that
the ministering angels can hold communion with
man. Christ connects fallen man in his weakness
and helplessness with the Source of infinite
power
." Steps to Christ, 20.

The above is not the Gospel?

Mrs. White did not know the Gospel?
 
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"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour, and by faith to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers, p.93; THE LIGHT REJECTED (1888)

The above is a lie? It is not the Gospel?
 
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Castaway57

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"The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." Steps to Christ, 36.

"The merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are the foundation of the Christian's faith." The Great Controversy, 73.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, vol.5,744.

So are you saying that this is not the Gospel?
Yes; thats what I am saying, and maybe you had better go back to my previous post where I made the comparison of your posts to Mat 4 and how Satan did what you are doing here. You have studied for years what you are doing, and you are well-rehearsed, with an answer for everything; but the Bible has an answer for everything too.
 
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Castaway57

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"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour, and by faith to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers, p.93; THE LIGHT REJECTED (1888)

The above is a lie? It is not the Gospel?
If this is your way of detracting from your dozens of posts re Kellogg and your adamant accusations against the church; you have just failed several Bible tests of a message being or not being "the truth."
 
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Castaway57

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"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour, and by faith to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers, p.93; THE LIGHT REJECTED (1888)

The above is a lie? It is not the Gospel?
See post 221 & 225 and answer those questions and points instead of presenting your smoke screens.
 
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"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour, and by faith to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers, p.93; THE LIGHT REJECTED (1888)

The above is a lie? It is not the Gospel?
 
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