THE IMAGINARY COVENANT OF GRACE FOUND NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE

Honoluluwindow

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There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.
 
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So how do you interpret Hebrews 8:8: "But God found fault with the people and said: "The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah."?

What do you think might be the substance of the new covenant? Just askin'...
 
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Soyeong

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There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

God has always been a God of grace (Exodus 34:6-7) and it is an attribute that he showed to people in the OT (Genesis 6:8) just as he showed people in the NT, and He shows His grace to us by teaching us to walk in His ways according to His Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and being trained to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful, which is essentially what God's Law was given to instruct us how to do. You could accurately refer to the New Covenant as a covenant of grace insofar as it an example of God's grace, but that does not imply that any of God's other covenants are not covenants of grace. Likewise, you could accurately refer to the Mosaic Covenant as a covenant of law, but that does not imply that God's other covenants are not covenants of law.
 
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Soyeong

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So how do you interpret Hebrews 8:8: "But God found fault with the people and said: "The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah."?

What do you think might be the substance of the new covenant? Just askin'...

It does not God say that God found fault with His Law or with His righteous standard, but with the people. The people broke God's covenant with them due to the hardness their hearts, so God's Law and God's righteous standard need need to change, but rather what needed changing what the hardness of our hearts. So God made a New Covenant where he would take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to His Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and where He would put His Law in our minds and write it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33)

One thing everyone mentioned in Hebrews 11 had in common was that they all heard God's voice and obeyed by faith. This was the type of relationship that God wanted with His people (Exodus 19:5), but upon hearing God's voice they got cold feet and wanted to have Moses as a mediator instead (Exodus 20:19, Deuteronomy 5:22-28). So they turned down being directed by God in how they should live and instead chose to be directed by man, which is why Moses had to write down all of the other laws. However, this quickly led to problems that would not have happened if Israel had been listening to the voice of God. So a New Covenant was needed to be what the Mosaic Covenant was intended where man would no longer teach man how to know the Lord, but where we would all know Him from the leasts to the greatest, where we would all hear God's voice and obey by faith.
 
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Honoluluwindow

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1. Edenic
2. Adamic
3. Noahic
4. Abrahamic
5. Land
6. Mosaic
7. Davidic
8. New

Edenic was a conditional covenant as was the Mosaic covenant.

Salvation is by grace through faith in the revealed content of faith given from God.

For Adam he believed that the seed of the woman was going to repair what he had caused.

For Noah he believed God was going to destroy the earth.

Abraham believed in a son.

We believe in another Son in whom God indeed is very well pleased.

God always saved anyone ever by grace.
 
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bloodygrace

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There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Keeping the law was an act of faith in the old covenant. Offering a sacrifice was looking forward to a redeemer to come who would atone for all sin. Those that had some faith made an attempt at keeping the law. Those who had no faith bowed down and worshipped idols. That crude system is completely done away with in our day where we put all our faith in a redeemer who has already come and accomplished his mission.
 
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disciple1

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There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.
You're only born of God through love, not obeying the law and not by grace alone.
 
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BABerean2

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There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol
Jer_31:31  "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28  For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24  And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20  Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25  In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Gal 4:24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 


Heb_8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15  And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24  to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.



The New Covenant: Bob George

 
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Jer_31:31  "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28  For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24  And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20  Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25  In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Gal 4:24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 


Heb_8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15  And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24  to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.



The New Covenant: Bob George

 
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BABerean2

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Dude, you've got 3k years of human history b4 Sinai. ?

Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel." 




Gal 3:15  Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 
Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ. 
Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 
Gal 3:18  For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 
Gal 3:19  What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.


Gal_3:8  And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."



Heb 11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 
Heb 11:2  For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 
Heb 11:3  By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. 
Heb 11:4  By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. 
Heb 11:5  By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "AND WAS NOT FOUND, BECAUSE GOD HAD TAKEN HIM"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 
Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. 
Heb 11:7  By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 
Heb 11:8  By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 
Heb 11:9  By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 
Heb 11:10  for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 
Heb 11:11  By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 
Heb 11:12  Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore. 
Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 
Heb 11:14  For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 
Heb 11:15  And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 
Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. 

.
 
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Honoluluwindow

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Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel." 




Gal 3:15  Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 
Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ. 
Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 
Gal 3:18  For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 
Gal 3:19  What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

. 
Thx. But in your opinion what happened between Adam and 3k years later Moses?
 
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Jezmeyah

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There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.
The apostle Paul explained that Abraham was reckoned righteous by believing God, therefore he had no works to boast of before God.

Paul also wrote that the Jews of his day sought righteousness by works. Therefore they stumbled over the truth of scripture that righteousness is by faith. Therefore Paul writes. "We are saved by grace through faith, not by works lest any man should boast."

What I've stated is therefore in line with your statement below.
God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.
If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).
It is found in scripture or you nor any other Christian would be able to say with Biblical understanding, "grace has always been the method of salvation."
The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace
If the Bible didn't, then no one would know about salvation by grace. Without it salvation would not exist, Jesus would not have been born on this earth, and the disciples would not have had a ministry. Without it, there would be no gospel, and no one would be saved.
because grace has always been the method of salvation.
You have just contradicted yourself. You say that grace has always been the method of salvation. That is agreeable as right. Yet you state that there is no covenant of grace.

Since God established salvation by grace, then it is a covenant of God with and for mankind. Yet you believing in salvation by grace, for some reason object to the phrase 'covenant of grace'. Apparently you see the two words as diametrically opposing each other.

Because all of God's word is God's law, then your confused perception that grace opposes law prompts you to argue with those who believe as you do concerning salvation by grace.

But the issue is not that grace opposes law, the issue is that works to gain righteousness opposes righteousness by faith.
 
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BABerean2

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Thx. But in your opinion what happened between Adam and 3k years later Moses?

God preserved some of the descendants of the woman, so that we might have eternal life through the sacrifice of His Son.

The Son has reversed the damage done in the garden, for those who place their faith in Him.

It was God's Plan before the foundation of the world.

God's love for us is measured with a measuring stick made of wood.
It's bottom goes down to the grave and its top reaches heaven.
It's width demonstrates God's open arms, for those willing to embrace Him.




.
 
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Honoluluwindow

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Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel." 




Gal 3:15  Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 
Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ. 
Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 
Gal 3:18  For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 
Gal 3:19  What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.


Gal_3:8  And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."



Heb 11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 
Heb 11:2  For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 
Heb 11:3  By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. 
Heb 11:4  By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. 
Heb 11:5  By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "AND WAS NOT FOUND, BECAUSE GOD HAD TAKEN HIM"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 
Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. 
Heb 11:7  By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 
Heb 11:8  By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 
Heb 11:9  By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 
Heb 11:10  for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 
Heb 11:11  By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 
Heb 11:12  Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore. 
Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 
Heb 11:14  For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 
Heb 11:15  And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 
Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. 

.
So you're saying that the law was added 400 years later to what exactly was it added?
 
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BABerean2

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So you're saying that the law was added 400 years later to what exactly was it added?

In Galatians 3:16-29, it was the Apostle Paul who said the law was "added" 430 years after the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed could come to whom the promise was made.

.
 
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JES1023

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The Old Testament also know as the Old Covenant started in the Garden of Eden:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; so death passed upon all men, for all have sinned.
Romans 5:12

While the New Testament is also know as the New Covenant. Paul make it clear that Adam not Moses invoke the wrath of the Old Covenant:
20) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the Firstfruits of them that slept.
21) For since by man came death, by Man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23) But everyman in his own order, Christ the Firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.
I Corinthians 15:20-23

Galatians 3 gives great detail to both Covenants, but here it states the Mosiac Covenant which was just the Adamic in greater detail, while comparing it to the Promise which is the New Covenant, or even the Abrahamic Covenant see Galatians 3:15-29. We also call it grace, Romans 5:12-21; and liberty Galatians 5:13-14.
 
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Honoluluwindow

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In Galatians 3:16-29, it was the Apostle Paul who said the law was "added" 430 years after the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed could come to whom the promise was made.

.
What was the promise made to Abe who lived 2k years after Adam.
 
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