THE IMAGINARY COVENANT OF GRACE FOUND NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE

[BABerean2]

The Old Testament also know as the Old Covenant started in the Garden of Eden:

Not based on the following scripture.

Exo 34:28　 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.　


Deu 5:1　 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them.　
Deu 5:2　 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.　
Deu 5:3　 The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.　


Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—　

.

 

[Honoluluwindow]

1. Edenic
2. Adamic
3. Noahic
4. Abrahamic
5. Land
6. Mosaic
7. David
8. New

 

[BABerean2]

Overview of Covenants, Abraham to Christ: David H.J. Gay

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Honoluluwindow,

Hello HW,
Could you give a definition of Covenant of grace? what do you mean by this term?

[There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol]
Is it misguided? Many seem to have found it in scripture.
How did they find it, and you did not?

[I have a problem with this.]
Lets see why
[ Because this 2 covenant theory implies]
"implies"....this could be the problem
[that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.]
No Covenant theologian believes that.
[God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone. ]
yes

[If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).]

What covenant was broken here?
hos6:
7 As at Adam, they have broken the covenant; they were unfaithful' to me there.

.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Hawaii bro

dont get overly concerned or confused about 7 covenants.....
They all kinda tie into the same focus of the coming of Messiah....

There are basically 2 covenants in the OT
1. Abraham...2000bc the seed of Abraham would bring in Messiah
2, moses....1500bc law of discipline and correction until Messiah would come

To your first question????
Yes they were always saved by faith not works of the Law!!
romans 4:13-14
Romans ch 4
The Seed promise was 430 years later....
Abrahams covenant takes president(more important) over Moses covenant
Galations 3:15-18

1. Abrahams covenant was from adam to Jesus....his seed through Isaac.....
genesis 3:15...the seed of Eve shall crush serpents head....
genesis 12:3 Abraham carried the seed of Messiah.....
The whole OT is about the prophesying and coming of Messiah....
The lineages had to be traced to adam....david....abraham.......
Luke 3:23-38
Matthew 1:1-16
Everything in the OT centers around the seed line inheritence and how satan tried to destroy it...
ex. Jacob and Esau, ismael and Isaac, killing of Hebrew babies in Egypt, Herod....

2. Moses covenant-LAW
was given because of rebellion in the wilderness....
ex. similiar to a child put on disciplinary program at home or in school
Galatians 3:24
law was our tutor(school disciplinarian) to bring us to Christ
Purpose of the LAW is to show us our sin
romans 7:7
ex. much like a police officer of the LAW

When Messiah was born abrahams covenant was fulfilled and ended....
and a New Covenant began in Christ
Hebrews 8:13
Luke 22:20

Focused bible references:
Romans 4:16-25
Galatians 3:15-29
Hebrews can be a little detailed and confusing...but is also good
Focus on romans and galaitians before Hebrews

 

[ladodgers6]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I beg to differ. The Bible does speak of Covenants. In Reformed theology: we believe in 3 Major Covenants. 1) Covenant of Redemption 2) Covenant of Works 3) Covenant of Grace

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

So how you deal with the Fall of Adam?

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

But God's Grace, mercy to given to those who do not deserve it. Sinners who seek mercy because there is nowhere to stand before God's Holy Law.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Question for you? Do you believe in the Trinity? Where in the Bible can I find the word Trinity?

Here is what the Reformed position believes and teaches regarding Covenants.

The Westminster Confession of Faith​

CHAPTER 7​

Of God’s Covenant with Man. ​

I. The distance between God and the creature is so great, that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their Creator, yet they could never have any fruition of him as their blessedness and reward, but by some voluntary condescension on God’s part, which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant.a


a Isa. 40:13-17; Job. 9:32,33; 1 Sam. 2:25; Ps. 113:5,6; Ps. 100:2,3; Job. 22:2,3; Job 35:7,8; Luke 17:10; Acts 17:24,25.


II. The first covenant made with man was a covenant of works,b wherein life was promised to Adam, and in him to his posterity,c upon condition of perfect and personal obedience.d


b Gal. 3:12.
c Rom. 10:5, Rom. 5:12-20.
d Gen. 2:17; Gal. 3:10.


III. Man by his fall having made himself incapable of life by that covenant, the Lord was pleased to make a second,e commonly called the Covenant of Grace: whereby he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in him, that they may be saved;f and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto life his Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe.g


e Gal. 3:21; Rom. 8:3; Rom. 3:20,21; Gen. 3:15; Isa. 42:6.
f Mark 16:15,16; John 3:16; Rom. 10:6,9; Gal. 3:11.
g Ezek. 36:26,27; John 6:44,45.


IV. This covenant of grace is frequently set forth in the scripture by the name of a Testament, in reference to the death of Jesus Christ the testator, and to the everlasting inheritance, with all things belonging to it, therein bequeathed.h


h Heb. 9:15-17; Heb. 7:22; Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25.


V. This covenant was differently administered in the time of the law, and in the time of the gospel;i under the law it was administered by promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, the paschal lamb, and other types and ordinances delivered to the people of the Jews, all foresignifying Christ to come,k which were for that time sufficient and efficacious, through the operation of the spirit, to instruct and build up the elect in faith in the promised Messiah,l by whom they had full remission of sins, and eternal salvation; and is called, the Old Testament.m


i 2 Cor. 3:6-9.
k Heb. chap. 8 to 10; Rom. 4:11; Col. 2:11,12; 1 Cor. 5:7.
l 1 Cor. 10:1-4; Heb. 11:13; John 8:56.
m Gal. 3:7-9,14.


VI. Under the gospel, when Christ the substancen was exhibited, the ordinances in which this covenant is dispensed are the preaching of the word, and the administration of the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper,o which, though fewer in number, and administered with more simplicity and less outward glory, yet, in them it is held forth in more fulness, evidence, and spiritual efficacy,p to all nations, both Jews and Gentiles;q and is called the New Testament.r There are not therefore two covenants of grace differing in substance, but one and the same under various dispensations.s


n Col. 2:17.
o Matt. 28:19,20; 1 Cor. 11:23-25.
p Heb. 12:22-28; Jer. 31:33,34.
q Matt. 28:19; Eph. 2:15-19.
r Luke 22:20.
s Gal. 3:14,16; Rom 3:21-23,30; Ps. 32:1 with Rom. 4:3,6,16,17,23,24; Heb. 13:8; Acts 15:11.

 

[BABerean2]

There are not therefore two covenants of grace differing in substance, but one and the same under various dispensations.s

Although based on Hebrews chapter 11, all Old Testament believers were saved by faith, there is only one covenant of Grace. They were saved through the promise of the coming Messiah. The Gospel was preached to Abraham.

It was the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13. It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

It was revealed by the Messiah at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28.

Jer_31:31　 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24　 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20　 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25　 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15　 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

NKJV

Based on Colossians 2:16-17, we are no longer under the 4th commandment.
Christ is our Sabbath Rest every day of the week in the New Covenant.

The New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13).

We have not come to Mount Sinai, but to the New Covenant of Mount Zion.
(Hebrews 12:18-24)

In Galatians chapter 4 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of bondage.

 

[ladodgers6]

Yes I agree with this. In Genesis 3:15, God Promised Adam & Eve that He will send a Promise Seed that will save His people from their sins. And again God makes the same Promise with Abraham, that through His Promised Seed we will be saved. And this Gospel of Grace is preach from Genesis through Revelation. Because even the OT believers were saved by Faith in the Promised Seed.

 

[ToBeLoved]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Well the two covenants are specifically the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

The Old Covenant is called the Law or the Law of Moses, which includes the 10 Commandments as well as, I guess 603 total laws. Or so I have been told by Jewish people, but it is always the same number so I believe that as fact.

The New Covenant is the covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ and is called sometimes grace, but that is a shortcut, but a welknown way to speak of it I guess. I usually say the New Covenant myself as to not have it confused with the Old Covenant.

However, one thing that you did not include is that grace in the New Covenant is by faith. Faith has to be there. Mandatory.

If you read the Old Covenant however, God told Israel that they had to keep all of the law,which they could not do, however if they had (and no one has) been successful, that would have gotten them to heaven.

 

[ToBeLoved]

God always saved anyone ever by grace.

I wouldn't agree with you totally that the Old Testament really clarifies this though. Now that we have the New Testament we know that all who are in Christ by faith are the children of Abraham, because Abraham is the father of all with faith.

But I don't think without the New Testament that it would be that clear to Israel that faith was the thing that would save them.

Even now Jewish people do not think that they will be saved by faith, they still believe it is the Law.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What was the promise made to Abe who lived 2k years after Adam.

Abraham was promised land.

 

[ladodgers6]

Well the two covenants are specifically the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

The Old Covenant is called the Law or the Law of Moses, which includes the 10 Commandments as well as, I guess 603 total laws. Or so I have been told by Jewish people, but it is always the same number so I believe that as fact.

The New Covenant is the covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ and is called sometimes grace, but that is a shortcut, but a welknown way to speak of it I guess. I usually say the New Covenant myself as to not have it confused with the Old Covenant.

However, one thing that you did not include is that grace in the New Covenant is by faith. Faith has to be there. Mandatory.

If you read the Old Covenant however, God told Israel that they had to keep all of the law,which they could not do, however if they had (and no one has) been successful, that would have gotten them to heaven.

I beg to differ, the Covenant of Grace runs from Genesis 3:15 to the NT. The Covenant of Works runs from the OT to the NT as well.

Christ said the Apostles in Luke 24:44,

44Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled” that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.

Augustine wrote that the OT is revealed in the NT, and the NT is hidden in the OT.

 

[Haipule]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

 

[klutedavid]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Hello honoluluwindow.

Nowhere in the scripture?

Zechariah 12:10
I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication.

Proverbs 3:34
Though He scoffs at the scoffers, Yet He gives grace to the afflicted.

Jeremiah 31:2
Thus says the Lord, “The people who survived the sword found grace in the wilderness Israel, when it went to find its rest.”

Psalm 45:2
You are fairer than the sons of men; Grace is poured upon Your lips; Therefore God has blessed You forever.

Psalm 84:11
For the Lord God is a sun and shield; The Lord gives grace and glory; No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I beg to differ, the Covenant of Grace runs from Genesis 3:15 to the NT. The Covenant of Works runs from the OT to the NT as well.

There is no Covenant of Grace. Show me where it is in the Bible?

Also, this is

Genesis 3:15
15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

I don't see the Covenant of Grace as you call it here either.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The Covenant of Works runs from the OT to the NT as well.

Please also show me in the BIble the verses that say there is a Covenant of Works?

 

[Haipule]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Soteriology is the theological prejudice that man can, and needs, to be "saved".

Yet, soteriology cannot be established "by grace" or through works using Scripture.

"Salvation" is French word transliterated from the Latin word "salvationem" and is therefore, not translated. It means whatever anyone says it means to as many as are dumb enough to listen.

sOtEria, the Biblical Greek word means: deliverance, rescue, save, make whole, keep safe and sound, and refers to our life right here, right now, in this life we are living, with two God given choices--life or death. Life = sheep. Death = goat.

In the Caribbean, the only way you can tell if your looking at a goat or a sheep is to look at the tail. If the tail is arrogantly up--it is a goat. If its humbly down--it is a sheep. So turn around and look. Are you a goat or a sheep? Always remember OSAS; Once a Sheep, Always a Sheep!

Ephesians 2:8a says: tE gar chariti este sesOsmenoi dia pisteOs.

It is translated: For by... No Brah! You cannot take a dative definite article "to-thee" and translate it as "by". That is inexcusable manipulation! Rather:

For(assigning a reason) to-thee(location/indirect object of the verb) joyous-favor/thriving-joy/beauty/poise/eloquence/gracefulness(this location) you-are-all(the verb) ones(nominative masculine plural)-having-been(perfect tense/past action with continuing results)-being(passive voice)-delivered through(means) of-trust(noun: that which you truize/place confidence in i.e. the Word),

Again: For(reason) to-thee thriving-joy you-are-all one-having-been-being-delivered through(means) [anarthrous/the character and nature of]of-trust(noun),

Just be a sheep of the Great Shepherd and keep kickin ass. Remember this: the end game is the Book of Life. Not grace, not works, not "salvation"!

 

[Traveling teacher]

We were always saved by faith
Abraham saved by fith 430 years before the law covenant
Galations 3:6-9, 17

 

[ladodgers6]

There is no Covenant of Grace. Show me where it is in the Bible?

Also, this is

Genesis 3:15
15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

I don't see the Covenant of Grace as you call it here either.

I do not know what theological system you believe in. I hold to the Reformed view. We believe that Christ is preached from Genesis to Revelation.

GENESIS 3:15 THE PROTOEVANGELIUM OR "FIRST GOSPEL" ​

Genesis 3:15 is God making a Covenant of Grace with Adam & Eve, that He Will send He Son to save His people.

This Covenant of Grace is where God promises eternal salvation to Man based upon the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. This is called a Covenant of Grace because it is initiated by God, due to no part and worthiness of man, and is unmerited favor received from God.

In this covenant Jesus would become man (John 1:1,18; Heb. 2:9), be the mediator of a better covenant (Heb. 8:6), and being under the Law (Gal. 4:4) fulfills the Law perfectly (1 Pet. 2:22). Therefore, the righteousness accomplished by Christ is given to the believer so that he has the righteousness that is not his own, but that of Christ (Phil. 3:9). The believer's responsibility is to have faith in the work of Christ (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9), a righteousness derived in the New Testament times by faith, just as it was in the Old Testament times (Rom. 4:1-11).

The manifestation of the Covenant of Grace was progressively disclosed. It began in the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve sinned and God promised a redeemer (Gen. 3:15), to Abraham the promise to bless the nations (Gen. 12:2-3), the covenant of the Ten Commandments given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai (Exodus 34:28), and believers in the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-37) which is fulfilled in Christ (1 Cor. 11:25).

Now like I said before, I do not know what you believe. But if you believe in the Trinity, show me where in Scripture does the word "TRINITY" appear? But the concept of the Trinity is taught in Scripture, regardless of the word is absence.

​

 

[ladodgers6]

Please also show me in the BIble the verses that say there is a Covenant of Works?

To be fair here. Can you share with me, what theological system you hold too?

What is the Covenant of Works? What is the Edenic Covenant?
The Covenant of Works, also known as the Edenic Covenant, is the covenant that God had with Adam in the Garden of Eden where Adam would maintain his position with God through his obedience to the command of God to multiply and fill the earth, subdue it, and also not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

• "God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so," (Genesis 1: 28-30).
• "The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die,” (Genesis 2:16-17)

Some say this is not a covenant, but according to Hosea 6:7 it is. "But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me." Covenants are usually accompanied with stipulations of rewards and punishments. The implication of keeping the requirements of God would be that Adam would have been blessed in his endeavors, which is implied in the "tree of life." The curse of breaking the covenant resulted in his death (Genesis 2:17), and death in the case of Adam and Eve began the moment they sinned.

Covenants have signs. There is no clear designation of the covenant sign here, but it would appear to be the Tree of Life.