THE IMAGINARY COVENANT OF GRACE FOUND NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE

[ToBeLoved]

I do not know what theological system you believe in. I hold to the Reformed view. We believe that Christ is preached from Genesis to Revelation.

GENESIS 3:15 THE PROTOEVANGELIUM OR "FIRST GOSPEL" ​

Genesis 3:15 is God making a Covenant of Grace with Adam & Eve, that He Will send He Son to save His people.

This Covenant of Grace is where God promises eternal salvation to Man based upon the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. This is called a Covenant of Grace because it is initiated by God, due to no part and worthiness of man, and is unmerited favor received from God.

In this covenant Jesus would become man (John 1:1,18; Heb. 2:9), be the mediator of a better covenant (Heb. 8:6), and being under the Law (Gal. 4:4) fulfills the Law perfectly (1 Pet. 2:22). Therefore, the righteousness accomplished by Christ is given to the believer so that he has the righteousness that is not his own, but that of Christ (Phil. 3:9). The believer's responsibility is to have faith in the work of Christ (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9), a righteousness derived in the New Testament times by faith, just as it was in the Old Testament times (Rom. 4:1-11).

The manifestation of the Covenant of Grace was progressively disclosed. It began in the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve sinned and God promised a redeemer (Gen. 3:15), to Abraham the promise to bless the nations (Gen. 12:2-3), the covenant of the Ten Commandments given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai (Exodus 34:28), and believers in the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-37) which is fulfilled in Christ (1 Cor. 11:25).

Now like I said before, I do not know what you believe. But if you believe in the Trinity, show me where in Scripture does the word "TRINITY" appear? But the concept of the Trinity is taught in Scripture, regardless of the word is absence.

​

The covenants in the Bible are fairly well known and there is no covenant of grace. Plain and simple.

Please show me what covenant is referred to in the BIble as the Covenant of grace? A covenant is no joke, so it should exist.

 

[ToBeLoved]

To be fair here. Can you share with me, what theological system you hold too?

My theology is 100% Bible-based. The Bible is God-breathed and the Word of God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

To be fair here. Can you share with me, what theological system you hold too?
The Covenant of Works, also known as the Edenic Covenant, is the covenant that God had with Adam in the Garden of Eden where Adam would maintain his position with God through his obedience to the command of God to multiply and fill the earth, subdue it, and also not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

• "God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so," (Genesis 1: 28-30).
• "The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die,” (Genesis 2:16-17)

Some say this is not a covenant, but according to Hosea 6:7 it is. "But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me." Covenants are usually accompanied with stipulations of rewards and punishments. The implication of keeping the requirements of God would be that Adam would have been blessed in his endeavors, which is implied in the "tree of life." The curse of breaking the covenant resulted in his death (Genesis 2:17), and death in the case of Adam and Eve began the moment they sinned.

Covenants have signs. There is no clear designation of the covenant sign here, but it would appear to be the Tree of Life.

I am going to try to be very patient.

Can you please give me the URL of the post because I think you copy and pasted it from somewhere.

Second, why would you call it the covenant of works when none of the scripture used to support that position uses that wording?

How is Adam being commanded to be fruitful and multiply a work? Or God commanding Adam not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life a work?

Where does this wording come from?

Can you copy and paste each of those verses out, like Hosea 6:7 in full text, instead of your own words. Scripture speaks for itself. and show me how it supports your wording?

 

[ladodgers6]

The covenants in the Bible are fairly well known and there is no covenant of grace. Plain and simple.

Please show me what covenant is referred to in the BIble as the Covenant of grace? A covenant is no joke, so it should exist.

I have provide what the Covenant of Grace is. Its God's promise to save His people in Christ. So Covenant is a Promise/Oath/Swear that He will do for His ungodly people. He carry out His redemptive plan in Christ who fulfills it, and redeems the ungodly from their sin, death and condemnation. I kept it short.

 

[ladodgers6]

My theology is 100% Bible-based. The Bible is God-breathed and the Word of God.

Thanks, explain Hosea 6:7 that states Adam transgressed the Covenant, like the Israelites?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have provide what the Covenant of Grace is. Its God's promise to save His people in Christ. So Covenant is a Promise/Oath/Swear that He will do for His ungodly people. He carry out His redemptive plan in Christ who fulfills it, and redeems the ungodly from their sin, death and condemnation. I kept it short.

I'll let someone else tell you that there is no covenant of grace. Why don't you google it and send me the url of the page that comes back?

use the words: Bible verses covenant of grace

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have provide what the Covenant of Grace is. Its God's promise to save His people in Christ. So Covenant is a Promise/Oath/Swear that He will do for His ungodly people. He carry out His redemptive plan in Christ who fulfills it, and redeems the ungodly from their sin, death and condemnation. I kept it short.

You have a man-made title of a covenant that does not exist in the Bible.

There is a Covenant with Adam. But whatever this other thing your talking about it doesn't exist. Sounds like your church uses buzz words that are not the Bible. Your pastor probably read a book or something and picked up the lingo.

 

[ladodgers6]

I am going to try to be very patient.

Can you please give me the URL of the post because I think you copy and pasted it from somewhere.

So if I give the references you will agree?

Second, why would you call it the covenant of works when none of the scripture used to support that position uses that wording?

Do you believe in the "Trinity"?

How is Adam being commanded to be fruitful and multiply a work? Or God commanding Adam not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life a work?

How you explain "Thou Shalt"?

Where does this wording come from?

I have no clue what you mean here.

Can you copy and paste each of those verses out, like Hosea 6:7 in full text, instead of your own words. Scripture speaks for itself. and show me how it supports your wording?

I have no problem quoting the run of passages. I love God's word. And seek the truth. So please by all means explain these passages.

Hosea 6​

1“Come, let us return to the Lord;
for he has torn us, that he may heal us;
he has struck us down, and he will bind us up.
2After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will raise us up,
that we may live before him.
3Let us know; let us press on to know the Lord;
his going out is sure as the dawn;
he will come to us as the showers,
as the spring rains that water the earth.”

4What shall I do with you, O Ephraim?
What shall I do with you, O Judah?
Your love is like a morning cloud,
like the dew that goes early away.
5Therefore I have hewn them by the prophets;
I have slain them by the words of my mouth,
and my judgment goes forth as the light.
6For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,
the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

7But like Adam they transgressed the covenant;
there they dealt faithlessly with me.
8Gilead is a city of evildoers,
tracked with blood.
9As robbers lie in wait for a man,
so the priests band together;
they murder on the way to Shechem;
they commit villainy.
10In the house of Israel I have seen a horrible thing;
Ephraim’s whoredom is there; Israel is defiled.

11For you also, O Judah, a harvest is appointed.

When I restore the fortunes of my people,(Covenant of Grace)​

​

 

[ToBeLoved]

So if I give the references you will agree?
Do you believe in the "Trinity"?


How you explain "Thou Shalt"?
I have no clue what you mean here.


I have no problem quoting the run of passages. I love God's word. And seek the truth. So please by all means explain these passages.

Hosea 6​

1“Come, let us return to the Lord;
for he has torn us, that he may heal us;
he has struck us down, and he will bind us up.
2After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will raise us up,
that we may live before him.
3Let us know; let us press on to know the Lord;
his going out is sure as the dawn;
he will come to us as the showers,
as the spring rains that water the earth.”

4What shall I do with you, O Ephraim?
What shall I do with you, O Judah?
Your love is like a morning cloud,
like the dew that goes early away.
5Therefore I have hewn them by the prophets;
I have slain them by the words of my mouth,
and my judgment goes forth as the light.
6For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,
the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

7But like Adam they transgressed the covenant;
there they dealt faithlessly with me.
8Gilead is a city of evildoers,
tracked with blood.
9As robbers lie in wait for a man,
so the priests band together;
they murder on the way to Shechem;
they commit villainy.
10In the house of Israel I have seen a horrible thing;
Ephraim’s whoredom is there; Israel is defiled.

11For you also, O Judah, a harvest is appointed.

When I restore the fortunes of my people,(Covenant of Grace)​

​

I'm sorry, I wish I had the patience for this.

But if your teachers cannot even reference the Bible and use Biblical words instead of buzz words, I will let someone else sort through it all with you.

If I am going to discuss the Bible, then we use the words used in the Bible, not lingo.

I wish you all the best in your journey. God bless.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Thanks, explain Hosea 6:7 that states Adam transgressed the Covenant, like the Israelites?

The words "adam transgressed the covenant" is not the same as the covenant of works or grace or whatever wording used.

In the future, you might use words like the covenant God made with Adam.

 

[ladodgers6]

I'll let someone else tell you that there is no covenant of grace. Why don't you google it and send me the url of the page that comes back?

use the words: Bible verses covenant of grace

Look, I will share what I know with you. But you have to be fair and answer the questions and verses I pose to you. I have studied Covenant Theology for a while now. And it is taught from Genesis to Revelation. If you do not want to believe it, that's your pejorative.

Do you believe in the "Trinity". If, so show me in the Bible where that word appears?

Do you believe in the Gospel?

 

[ladodgers6]

You have a man-made title of a covenant that does not exist in the Bible.

There is a Covenant with Adam. But whatever this other thing your talking about it doesn't exist. Sounds like your church uses buzz words that are not the Bible. Your pastor probably read a book or something and picked up the lingo.

Okay, show me "Trinity" in the Bible?

 

[ladodgers6]

I'm sorry, I wish I had the patience for this.

But if your teachers cannot even reference the Bible and use Biblical words instead of buzz words, I will let someone else sort through it all with you.

If I am going to discuss the Bible, then we use the words used in the Bible, not lingo.

I wish you all the best in your journey. God bless.

That's KoO! You can insult me and church all you want. Then say you are a Christian or bible believing person. When the questions get tough, people run and hide.

 

[ladodgers6]

The words "adam transgressed the covenant" is not the same as the covenant of works or grace or whatever wording used.

In the future, you might use words like the covenant God made with Adam.

This is the problem with modern Christians today. They do not think about their faith. When you are dealing is obedience or disobedience that Sir, or Ma'am is works. Adam was in a Covenant of Works with God. Where God commanded Adam & Eve, "Thou Shalt not eat". These words "Thou Shalt" do not sound familiar? Are they not the same as in the 10 Commandments? Does not James 2, state that if you break one commandment, you break all of them?

In Hosea 6, I quoted the whole run of chapter. What did it entail regarding the Jews there. Were they not sinning? Why does it say they broke the Covenant like Adam did? Think about it, before you reply.

 

[ToBeLoved]

That's KoO! You can insult me and church all you want. Then say you are a Christian or bible believing person. When the questions get tough, people run and hide.

Say what you want. I'm not promoting a covenant that doesn't even exist in the Bible.

I think I have been fair with you. The Bible is not that complicated, it is either in there or man-made. Being a Bible believing person, what is talked about, must be IN the Bible. It's been around 2,000 years so it didn't change last week

I hope you use Google yourself. Learn and don't be afraid to find out something is wrong. Just pivot and get on the right track.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This is the problem with modern Christians today. They do not think about their faith. When you are dealing is obedience or disobedience that Sir, or Ma'am is works. Adam was in a Covenant of Works with God. Where God commanded Adam & Eve, "Thou Shalt not eat". These words "Thou Shalt" do not sound familiar? Are they not the same as in the 10 Commandments? Does not James 2, state that if you break one commandment, you break all of them?

In Hosea 6, I quoted the whole run of chapter. What did it entail regarding the Jews there. Were they not sinning? Why does it say they broke the Covenant like Adam did? Think about it, before you reply.

My recommendation is that you use the words the Adamic Covenant (or even Edenic).

Whatever the term you are using is not mainstream. I am trying to help you. Believe it or not. I have taken a lot of time and I don't just take time on everything.

If your interested for yourself, I found this while I was looking Is There A "Covenant of Grace"?

 

[Haipule]

We were always saved by faith
Abraham saved by fith 430 years before the law covenant
Galations 3:6-9, 17

I like it when people quote Galatians 3 or, James 2 to try and tell me how the Older Covenants heroes are saved. Paul and James are quoting Genesis 15:6:

"Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness." Gen 15:6 NASB

Yet, Abraham is introduced in Genesis 11; 12 God makes Abram a promise; Abram builds an alter; 13 Abram gets rich; builds another alter; 14 Abram meets Melchizedek and is blessed by him; 15:1 God is talking to Abram in a vision and apparently, Abraham did all this before he was evened "saved" in verse 6!

And what did Avrahon believe/trust of God? That he, Abraham, would have a son!
And God EQUAED that as dikaiosunE.

 

[ladodgers6]

Say what you want. I'm not promoting a covenant that doesn't even exist in the Bible.

I think I have been fair with you. The Bible is not that complicated, it is either in there or man-made. Being a Bible believing person, what is talked about, must be IN the Bible. It's been around 2,000 years so it didn't change last week

I hope you use Google yourself. Learn and don't be afraid to find out something is wrong. Just pivot and get on the right track.

No comment. Nothing here to address. You keep avoiding the questions, because you know, why.

 

[ladodgers6]

My recommendation is that you use the words the Adamic Covenant (or even Edenic).

Whatever the term you are using is not mainstream. I am trying to help you. Believe it or not. I have taken a lot of time and I don't just take time on everything.

If your interested for yourself, I found this while I was looking Is There A "Covenant of Grace"?

Hello, I provided you a article from Matt Slick that was entitled Edenic Covenant. You need to stop trying to insult people, and take a breath, and think about what you read, before you reply. I think you are not taking the time to read my replies.

 

[Haipule]

You have a man-made title of a covenant that does not exist in the Bible.

There is a Covenant with Adam. But whatever this other thing your talking about it doesn't exist. Sounds like your church uses buzz words that are not the Bible. Your pastor probably read a book or something and picked up the lingo.

The new "buzz word", 'prayerfully' makes me gag!