The Holy Trinity understood by son of man.

Phantasman

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and look who rules and is worshipped in religion everywhere in the world soon... not Jesus - Rev 13:3-4

but what the bible says has been much discussed here and very clearly does not say wht you wnat to make it say...

God is spirit , God is His spirit ... there are not two 'persons' in heaven , not even one person, just one spirit, undivided, indivisible, not three anythings...

Jesus was a person for a while, but equally was Logos the covering cherub at the right hand of God , which is no 'person' and NEVER distinct from God [John 1]

as for begotten sons of God , there are countless many, not just Jesus the first... all are images of Jesus Christ ... so if one for unfathomable reason wants to count sonns of God there are many and the number is increasing :-

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

thus it really ain't worth dividing this site and all Christianity on basis of some insistence that God is a different distinct person than his own spirit which is another distinct person from Logos ... these are NOT persons and they are not distinct, they are the same ONE God , indivisible and NOT made up of persons at all, but ONE spirit which is God in all His MANY aspects, not just three ... all ONE ... at no point does scripture suggest God is only 3 aspects in one, always MANY ... but the aspects of God are not all persons and there are many sons of God , all persons, not three, not one, but all one... and there is NO MYSTERY in that ... really, no mystery at all...

It is the things we tend to believe that cause us to live our lives in a shroud of mystery and how we are perceived by spiritual entities. Thinking Heaven is comprised of one place with one spirit made my own spirit shrill. With more knowledge we know that (even in the Bible) there are more than one heaven. In the Apocalypse of Paul, he talks of walking through ten. God wasn't alone before us and there were more than the OT tells us. Jesus himself spoke more of spirituality. Of course, it is for those who accept it.

"Behold, I have revealed to you the name of the Perfect One, the whole will of the Mother of the Holy Angels, that the masculine multitude may be completed here, that there might appear in the aeons, the infinities and those that came to be in the untraceable wealth of the Great Invisible Spirit, that they all might take from his goodness, even the wealth of their rest that has no kingdom over it. I came from First Who Was Sent, that I might reveal to you Him Who Is from the Beginning, because of the arrogance of Arch-Begetter and his angels, since they say about themselves that they are gods. And I came to remove them from their blindness, that I might tell everyone about the God who is above the universe. Therefore, tread upon their graves, humiliate their malicious intent, and break their yoke and arouse my own. I have given you authority over all things as Sons of Light, that you might tread upon their power with your feet."
These are the things the blessed Savior said, and he disappeared from them. Then all the disciples were in great, ineffable joy in the spirit from that day on. And his disciples began to preach the Gospel of God, the eternal, imperishable Spirit. Amen.- Sophia of Jesus Christ
 
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JoJo50

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The Holy Trinity is everywhere, in the world, in the Bible book arrangement and even in the fact that there are three primary Christian Churches.

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santa in some way, is taught over the earth, and even many christians are starting to not teach that lie. satan is taught to be an ugly being, that's a lie. and many christians believe the earth will be destroyed... that's a lie also! my point, JUST because it's taught all over the earth, doesn't make it true. and! may i add, it's ALSO taught ALL ove te earth, the trinty is a lie. question... why is it so hard for many to do research on the origins of the trinity? why do many christians continue to follow a lie satan placed out there? and most importantly, why do many continue to teach something Jesus NEVER taught? IF... there was a trinity, Jesus would have USED THE WORD. many WANT to believe in a trinity, simply because Jesus spoked of Jehovah Gods HS.

why is it so hard to believe the Holy Spirit ISN'T a "third being", but God's active force? it's ONLY him using his power to cause ANYTHING he want to happen. it was through his HS, he created the world. when we humans show love, it's Jehovah God's HS, that causes us to feel this way. i can't make ANYONE believe the truth, even if the internet is FULL of proof concerning how the trinity came into the christian world. if one refuses to seek the truth, the will NEVER find it, one has to WANT IT! ,(Luke 11:9). Satan wants ALL destroyed, and if many refuse to learn the truth. Jehovah God will help them stick with the lies they believe. Which will ALSO cause them death, (2 Thess. 2:10)., it’s your world! peace :)
 
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strangertoo

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The Holy Trinity is everywhere, in the world, in the Bible book arrangement and even in the fact that there are three primary Christian Churches.

how could you fail to see that the division of Christianity shows it is NOT of the ONE indivsible Holy Spirit of the ONE indivisible God of Love ?
 
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strangertoo

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santa in some way, is taught over the earth, and even many christians are starting to not teach that lie. satan is taught to be an ugly being, that's a lie. and many christians believe the earth will be destroyed... that's a lie also! my point, JUST because it's taught all over the earth, doesn't make it true. and! may i add, it's ALSO taught ALL ove te earth, the trinty is a lie. question... why is it so hard for many to do research on the origins of the trinity? why do many christians continue to follow a lie satan placed out there? and most importantly, why do many continue to teach something Jesus NEVER taught? IF... there was a trinity, Jesus would have USED THE WORD. many WANT to believe in a trinity, simply because Jesus spoked of Jehovah Gods HS.

why is it so hard to believe the Holy Spirit ISN'T a "third being", but God's active force? it's ONLY him using his power to cause ANYTHING he want to happen. it was through his HS, he created the world. when we humans show love, it's Jehovah God's HS, that causes us to feel this way. i can't make ANYONE believe the truth, even if the internet is FULL of proof concerning how the trinity came into the christian world. if one refuses to seek the truth, the will NEVER find it, one has to WANT IT! ,(Luke 11:9). Satan wants ALL destroyed, and if many refuse to learn the truth. Jehovah God will help them stick with the lies they believe. Which will ALSO cause them death, (2 Thess. 2:10)., it’s your world! peace :)

sadly ,as one has to stop sinning before God can baptise one, few find the way of Love in this evil earth , few obey Jesus because their will is to sin not to Love all folks always :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

very few follow Jesus now and the rest really are destroyed in the end of this earth and heavens -Matt 7:13-14

so you are mistaken according to Jesus and the prophest of God and even Peter :-2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 
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strangertoo

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It is the things we tend to believe that cause us to live our lives in a shroud of mystery and how we are perceived by spiritual entities.

interestingly we are a 'spiritual entity' , just in denial of it for a 'cause' ... no-one can find more than ONE endless spirit in the end of belief in the many of whatever illusion one chooses as-it-were

Thinking Heaven is comprised of one place with one spirit made my own spirit shrill. With more knowledge we know that (even in the Bible) there are more than one heaven. In the Apocalypse of Paul, he talks of walking through ten.

as you likely realise the bible deals only with three heavens and the third heaven is simply the spirit which is God the endless creator... but clearly endless creation can yield any finite number of created universes which all end... only the one spirit is endless ...


God wasn't alone before us and there were more than the OT tells us. Jesus himself spoke more of spirituality. Of course, it is for those who accept it.

I have been with God and assure you there is no sense of being 'alone' despite there being no individuals, no division , no consciousness, no time, no form... to be 'everthing' that is endless is beyond peaceful , it is 'complete' and there is 'no-one else' 'there' although everything that can exist in time is potentially there and recurrently re-created ,'rather more' than twelve worlds my friend...

and as John and Jesus put it more accurately , if you read more carefully :-

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 1:1 ... the Word[Logos] was God.

there is no division even possible for the spirit , division does not apply to the spirit, just as destruction, time , change, consciousness, ... do not even apply ... the spirit has no from to be able to divide, no space to divide into...

we really need a whole different set of words and concepts about the spirit, but they mean nothing to most folks yet...

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee ... any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth...

It is a problem for sinners , but then they do not see their sin as being the only thing between them and knowing the God of Love... some even do not think Jesus was serious commanding Love, no sin, some do not even see that sin is abuse, the very opposite of Love ...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

gnash gnash as Jesus returns and simply cannot take any still sinning :-

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
 
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strangertoo

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You ask above "who rules in religion?" The rules of the lands of of three types. The survival of the fittest rules in India and China. They follow religions which "respect power."

The lands of the Moslems are governed by the "law of Justice." This law enforces justice and keeps security and stability in thier lands. But it lacks compassion and mercy.

The lands of Christiandom which are all of Europe live under a law of Justice with the compassion and mercy of Jesus Christ added in. Jesus came to expand the law. He brought in the fufilment of the prophesy of Jeremiah 31;31. If you don't know it, read it.

Jesus does not rule in this earth, why do you not believe him :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world
 
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dana b

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how could you fail to see that the division of Christianity shows it is NOT of the ONE indivsible Holy Spirit of the ONE indivisible God of Love ?


How can you fail to see that the division of Christianity is not a "division" but it is a historical progression going in the right direction?
 
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dana b

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Jesus does not rule in this earth, why do you not believe him :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world


This "world" is built upon nature. Jesus kingdom is built upon the principles of Conscience. This is a progressive two steps above nature.

Jesus says his kingdom is not of nature because it is of Conscience. The word conscience is used 31 times and only in Jesus's New Testament. The Old Testament followers never knew of it.

Jesus was born on this earth and his millennial kingdom is forecast to be set up in a geographical location on this earth.

Earth and World are different meaning in the bible.
 
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strangertoo

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Jesus was born on this earth and his millennial kingdom is forecast to be set up in a geographical location on this earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Earth and World are different meaning in the bible.
please explain why you say this ...

bear in mind that this earth and heavens are destroyed and all sinners in this earth destroyed [Matt 7:13]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 
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he-man

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John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. please explain why you say this ...
bear in mind that this earth and heavens are destroyed and all sinners in this earth destroyed [Matt 7:13]
That does not mean literally destroyed, it means this order of things to be done away with for the New Kingdom her on Earth. Why else would Jesus say, "I will return?" Watch lest you be caught unawares?
Jer 3:17
At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.
 
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dana b

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John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

please explain why you say this ...

bear in mind that this earth and heavens are destroyed and all sinners in this earth destroyed [Matt 7:13]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.



"For God so loved the "world" that he gave his only begotten son,..." Jn.3;16

"My kingdom is not of this world." Jn.18;36



So Strangertoo, before i answer you how "world and earth" are different, please you tell me how God could love the "world" so much yet Jesus says his kingdom is definitly not of it.
 
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strangertoo

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"For God so loved the "world" that he gave his only begotten son,..." Jn.3;16

"My kingdom is not of this world." Jn.18;36

So Strangertoo, before i answer you how "world and earth" are different, please you tell me how God could love the "world" so much yet Jesus says his kingdom is definitly not of it.

Well Jesus is perhaps the one to best answer that in his command to Love one's enemies ...

Love has no favourites... God knows Love is the best way to live [we could even say the best way for all to live is shown by Love in life as Jesus showed us annd saud that is how we come to know God]

Satan must be allowed to prove his way of lies and sin fails simply because Love can only be given freely... and almost all men agree with Satan [Rev 13:3-4] ... many may give Love lip-service, but n fact they BELIEVE lies and sin are more 'practical' ...

Yet as we see, the way of s
Satan in this world is destroying this world , and once the earth is dead then God has no more use for this universe...

But God requires tens of thousands of saints [Jude 1:14] to build the kingdom of christ in the new earth run by Jesus ruling, not Satan, ruling by Love with death still the wages of any sin but no grace ... salvation by works after all men that ever lived and died sinners are resurrected to the new earth to see if they choose Love or follow Satan still and die again... Rev 20:13 ... countless many choose Love because they see Love working in the kingdom come , and so are saved at judgement day [Rev 7:9-10] whereas few found the way ithis life and almost all are destroyed with the end of this earth[Matt 7:13-14]

so as Jesus says, Satan is the fake god of almost all men in this earth , all mass religion unites soon in worship of the wrong god -Rev 13:3-4 - we can see already there is nothing holy remaining in mass religion , all holy blessings have been removed already by Satan ...all memorials to God's Plan of salvation by Love , persuading all men to try Love instead of believing in lies and sin of our rat-race world of sin and lies ... once one just tries Love instead one is sold on Love and quits all lies and sin, God helps with spirit baptism...

in the next life though all have been freed from sin who died [Romans 6:7] , so God can at last baptise all men as promised [Joel 2:28] and so there is only trial of Love [baptism of fire] to be completed before translation to spirit... it is in a sense easier then to love in the kingdom where Love is the norm, the RULE of life set by Jesus at last ruling in his kingdom ..

so there is no doubt who will rule this earth , Satan... even the last few saints alive have to be bailed out by Jesus returning early because they find it so hard to Love the whole earth when everyone is against them accusing them of heresy , torturing and killing them as in the past :-

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
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he-man

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Well Jesus is perhaps the one to best answer that in his command to Love one's enemies ...2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
What does all this have to do with the subject of TRINITY? The Holy Trinity understood by son of man.

Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

 
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timbo3

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The "Holy Trinity" is indefinable, simply because it is against logic and reasonableness. Why ? Because 3 = 1 and 1 = 3 defies logic and mathematical law.

Yet, many accept the trinity without giving serious thought to its illogicalness, such as Eugene Clark (January 1926 - April 2012, Catholic priest) once stated that "God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it." And Pope Paul II also spoke of the ""inscrutable mystery of the trinity". Should any person that desires to know God accept a teaching that defies logic ?

Of both him and his Father, Jesus said: ""All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him."(Matt 11:27) So how can we know the Father as well as the Son ?

At John 1:18, the apostle John wrote (in about 98 C.E., some 65 years after Jesus death) that "no one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained ("explained", Greek exegesato, meaning "to draw out in a narrative, unfold in teaching", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 223) him."(John 1:18)

Hence, by means of illustrations and other ways of teaching, Jesus ' unfolded ' who his Father is, and thus unveiled his personality of love, with there being no mystery, explaining him. Contrary to the churches teaching that "God is one, and God is three", the Bible clearly details out that God has a personal name - Jehovah, and that he created his "only-begotten Son" as his "firstborn"(Col 1:15; Rev 3:14), who later came to be called Jesus (meaning "Jehovah is Salvation") when he arrived on the earth.

Jesus made it very clear that he is inferior to the Father, telling his 11 faithful apostles, that "the Father is greater than I am."(John 14:28) He told the Jews that he was taught by his Father, saying "that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things."(John 8:28) So, how can Jesus be "co-equal" with the Father, as well as "co-eternal", being God, and yet be taught by the Father ? Logic dictates that this cannot be.

And the apostle Paul stated, that "there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him."(1 Cor 8:6)

Of God, Paul says that "all things" are "out of " him, whereas of Jesus Christ, "all things" are "through him". Reasonable people can grasp that from Jehovah God came forth "all things", with Jesus being noted as his "master worker" (Hebrew a·mohn´; having the sense of "training", "cunning workman", a "skilled architect", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, H525 and H542) at Proverbs 8:30, so that "through him", God made the universe and all life in it.

Hence, there is no "inscrutable mystery of the trinity", for Jehovah God is the Father, with Jesus Christ as his "only-begotten Son" and the holy spirit is God's active force (Isa 44:3; Acts 1:8) with which he used to create "all things", including Jesus.(Rev 3:14)
 
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he-man

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Of both him and his Father, Jesus said: ""All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him."(Matt 11:27) So how can we know the Father as well as the Son ?
Only if it is disclosed by the son, Christ
Mat 11:27 παντα μοι παρεδοθη υπο του πατρος μου και ουδεις επιγινωσκει τον υιον ει μη ο πατηρ ουδε τον πατερα τις επιγινωσκει ει μη ο υιος και ω εαν βουληται ο υιος αποκαλυψαι

Mat 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does any one know the Father, except the Son, and unless
the Son be willing to disclose

Logical Transformation: “If anyone knows the Son then it is the Father and if anyone knows the Father then it is the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to disclose him.

Several scholars recognize the tension and argue that it is a deep, intimate knowledge between the Father and the Son that is exclusive. While this is close to the point, it still suffers from the assumption that eij mhv must mean “except.” See Leon Morris, The Gospel according to Matthew, Pillar Commentary (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1992), 293-94;

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, if not through me.

Logical Transformation: If any one comes to the Father, he comes to the Father through me.
Jesus made it very clear that he is inferior to the Father, telling his 11 faithful apostles, that "the Father is greater than I am."(John 14:28)
And the apostle Paul stated, that "there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him."(1 Cor 8:6)
Of God, Paul says that "all things" are "out of " him, whereas of Jesus Christ, "all things" are "through him". Reasonable people can grasp that from Jehovah God came forth "all things", with Jesus being noted as his "master worker" (Hebrew a·mohn´; having the sense of "training", "cunning workman", a "skilled architect", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, H525 and H542) at Proverbs 8:30, so that "through him", God made the universe and all life in it.
Very good, however one Correction, that "on account of him" God made the universe and all life in it.
Hence, there is no "inscrutable mystery of the trinity", for Jehovah God is the Father, with Jesus Christ as his "only-begotten Son" and the holy spirit is God's active force (Isa 44:3; Acts 1:8) with which he used to create "all things", including Jesus.(Rev 3:14)[/quote]:thumbsup:
 
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timbo3

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Only if it is disclosed by the son, Christ
Mat 11:27παντα μοι παρεδοθη υπο του πατρος μου και ουδεις επιγινωσκει τον υιον ει μη ο πατηρ ουδε τον πατερα τις επιγινωσκει ει μη ο υιος και ω εαν βουληται ο υιος αποκαλυψαι

Mat 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does any one know the Father, except the Son, andunless
the Son be willing to disclose

Logical Transformation: “If anyone knows the Son then it is the Father and if anyone knows the Father then it is the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to disclose him.

Several scholars recognize the tension and argue that it is a deep, intimate knowledge between the Father and the Son that is exclusive. While this is close to the point, it still suffers from the assumption that eij mhv must mean “except.” See Leon Morris, The Gospel according to Matthew, Pillar Commentary (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1992), 293-94;

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, if not through me.

Logical Transformation: If any one comes to the Father, he comes to the Father through me.
Very good, however one Correction, that "on account of him" God made the universe and all life in it.
Hence, there is no "inscrutable mystery of the trinity", for Jehovah God is the Father, with Jesus Christ as his "only-begotten Son" and the holy spirit is God's active force (Isa 44:3; Acts 1:8) with which he used to create "all things", including Jesus.(Rev 3:14)[/quote]:thumbsup:

At 1 Corinthians 8:6, the apostle Paul used the Greek words di hou concerning God, meaning "through whom" rather than di touto (literally "through this") that has the meaning of "on account of " as at Matthew 6:25. When the Greek word di is followed by a genitive word, such as autou (meaning "him"), it means "through him", as at 1 Corinthians 8:6 b concerning Jesus Christ.

At John 1, the apostle John used di autou at verses 3, 7 and 10 and is rendered as "through him" by the Scripture4all interlinear, as well as by the Emphatic Diaglott, as well as by the Greek master text The New Testament in the Original Greek by scholars Westcott and Hort.

At 1 Corinthians 8:6, the Scripture4all interlinear, the Emphatic Diaglott and the Greek master text The New Testament in the Original Greek by scholars Westcott and Hort all render di hou as "through whom", and and di autou as "through him", not as "on account of ".

According the Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, it says that if di (dia lemma or base word) is followed by a genitive word, it is rendered as "through" (pg 132), as at Matthew 7:13 and 12:43, but if followed by a word in the accusative, it means "by reason of, because of "(pg 134) and has been rendered as "on account of " or "by means of " (New World Translation) or "by whom" (King James Bible) as at Matthew 12:27.
 
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he-man

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Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament[/I], it says that if di (dia lemma or base word) is followed by a genitive word, it is rendered as "through" (pg 132), as at Matthew 7:13 and 12:43, but if followed by a word in the accusative, it means "by reason of, because of "(pg 134) and has been rendered as "on account of " or "by means of " (New World Translation) or "by whom" (King James Bible) as at Matthew 12:27.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, except by me.

1Co 8:6 αλλ ημιν εις θεος ο πατηρ εξ ου τα παντα και ημεις εις αυτον και εις κυριος ιησους χριστος δι ου τα παντα και ημεις δι αυτου

1Co 8:6
But to us one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, on behalf of whom are all things, and we by him.

1Co 8:6 Louw-Nida on account of (reason) 89.26
c through (means) 89.76
a by (agent) 90.4
b by (instrument) 90.8
d on behalf of (benefaction) 90.38
e because of (reason participant) 90.44


Thayer 2a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
2a1) by reason of
2a2) on account of
2a3) because of for this reason
2a4) therefore
2a5) on this account


Strong by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake

Hippolytus Dogmatical and Historical Fragments: For in this he has said only what Christ testifies of Himself. For Christ gave this testimony, and said, "All things are delivered unto me of my Father; "[219]





 
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ImperialJohn

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there are plenty of sons of God , tens of thousands ,not born of a virgin and not just the one ...

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
...
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

We are as yet lost children of God (sons of God), yet to be adpoted. A bit like the prodigal son! There may very well one day in the future be many sons of God.

Discussion on the trinity is definitely in the right forum here.

Jesus when he was born of the virgin Mary had divested his powers as a spirit divinity. He was sired by God. Prior to that God and the Word had always co-existed as eternal spirit beings (John 1)

The Spirit of God is simply God's Spirit. God is made of spirit not matter. It is not some mystical third person. There is no third person. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the very living God. Omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.
 
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timbo3

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We are as yet lost children of God (sons of God), yet to be adpoted. A bit like the prodigal son! There may very well one day in the future be many sons of God.

Discussion on the trinity is definitely in the right forum here.

Jesus when he was born of the virgin Mary had divested his powers as a spirit divinity. He was sired by God. Prior to that God and the Word had always co-existed as eternal spirit beings (John 1)

The Spirit of God is simply God's Spirit. God is made of spirit not matter. It is not some mystical third person. There is no third person. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the very living God. Omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.

Our Creator, Jehovah God, has alone existed eternally, for Psalms 90 says that "before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting thou art God."(Ps 90:2, King James Bible)

However, of Jesus, he was created by God, saying himself that he is "the beginning of the creation by God."(Rev 3:14) And the apostle Paul calls Jesus "the firstborn of all creation."(Col 1:15) At Proverbs 8, with Jesus being personified as wisdom, he says: "Jehovah himself produced ("produced", Hebrew qanah, meaning "to erect, i.e. create....to procure") me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.....Before the mountains themselves had been settled down....when as yet he had not made the earth....then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before all the time."(Prov 8:22, 25, 26, 30)

Of John 1:1, 2, Jesus is indeed "a god", but not God. He is now a spirit "son of God", for upon his coming up from the water after his baptism, Jehovah said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved."(Matt 3:16)

The apostle Peter said that Jesus "received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: "This is my son, my beloved, whom I have approved." Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain."(2 Pet 1, 17, 18)
 
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strangertoo

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Of John 1:1, 2, Jesus is indeed "a god", but not God. He is now a spirit "son of God", for upon his coming up from the water after his baptism, Jehovah said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved."(Matt 3:16)

The apostle Peter said that Jesus "received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: "This is my son, my beloved, whom I have approved." Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain."(2 Pet 1, 17, 18)

Deuteronomy 32:39 [Rotherham Emphasised Bible] ¶ See, now, that, I, I, am, he that is, And there are no gods with me
 
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