The Holy Trinity understood by son of man.

[dana b]

Although this idea of the Holy Trinity has been carried, dropped and picked up again and then denounced again, it has never been properly defined to be understood. That is because;

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end,....." Dan.12;4


Today, after the year 2000AD we can read and understand the book again. We have entered the last and final millennium, so we are in the "time of the end." (What else can be the time of the end if not this seventh conclusive millennium matching God's seventh Genesis day?)

 

[dana b]

Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." He was therefore born of a virgin.

Jesus often refferred to the things that the "son of man" would have to accomplish in order for the "kingdom of heaven" to be brought in. Jesus went ahead as the son of God and demonstrated to us "sons of men" what was the way to eternal life in heaven. Even Eziekiel was called "son of man" because he too was a human mortal. But Jesus Christ is the only Son of God. He died for our sins and gives us eternal life by grace.

 

[barryrob]

Although this idea of the Holy Trinity has been carried, dropped and picked up again and then denounced again, it has never been properly defined to be understood. That is because;

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end,....." Dan.12;4


Today, after the year 2000AD we can read and understand the book again. We have entered the last and final millennium, so we are in the "time of the end." (What else can be the time of the end if not this seventh conclusive millennium matching God's seventh Genesis day?)

Jesus has been on earth and seen by thousands so according to the above they has seen God on earth, BUT The Bible says that is not so:-

As the Holy Scriptures states that Almighty God cannot be seen, see below:-


1 John 4:12 At NO TIME has anyone beheld God.

John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

Now this is an important statement in our discussion, “NO MAN has seen God at ANY time” as this must include Abraham otherwise it is untrue, and that cannot be so can it?

John 5:37 Also, the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. YOU have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his figure.”

John 6:46 “Jesus said “Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.””

If the Bible says that NO man at ANY time has or can see God then this must be true as it is statement “inspired of God”.

This Jesus is not Almighty God!

rob

 

[Phantasman]

Jesus has been on earth and seen by thousands so according to the above they has seen God on earth, BUT The Bible says that is not so:-

As the Holy Scriptures states that Almighty God cannot be seen, see below:-


1 John 4:12 At NO TIME has anyone beheld God.

John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

Now this is an important statement in our discussion, “NO MAN has seen God at ANY time” as this must include Abraham otherwise it is untrue, and that cannot be so can it?

John 5:37 Also, the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. YOU have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his figure.”

John 6:46 “Jesus said “Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.””

If the Bible says that NO man at ANY time has or can see God then this must be true as it is statement “inspired of God”.

This Jesus is not Almighty God!

rob

I agree, Brother Rob.

Even Jesus told John in the Apocryphon of John:

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name."

Of course you may have a different opinion on the last verse. But that's OK, most people don't search the other scriptures. Even so, the pages above seem man made as well.

 

[strangertoo]

Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." He was therefore born of a virgin.

But Jesus Christ is the only Son of God.

there are plenty of sons of God , tens of thousands ,not born of a virgin and not just the one ...

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
...
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[someguy14]

Father God.
Gods Word.
Gods Spirit.

Perfect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbIYPYBiejM

 

[strangertoo]

Jesus has been on earth and seen by thousands so according to the above they has seen God on earth, BUT The Bible says that is not so:-
As the Holy Scriptures states that Almighty God cannot be seen, see below:-

1John 4:12 At NO TIME has anyone beheld God.

John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

Now this is an important statement in our discussion, “NO MAN has seen God at ANY time” as this must include Abraham otherwise it is untrue, and that cannot be so can it?

John 5:37 Also, the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. YOU have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his figure.”

John 6:46 “Jesus said “Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.””

If the Bible says that NO man at ANY time has or can see God then this must be true as it is statement “inspired of God”.

This Jesus is not Almighty God!

rob

As Jesus said, he showed us Love by which we know God ... John put's it thus:-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
...
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

we know the spirit by means of Love... we cannot see or hear Love ... yet Jesus is the very essence of Love ...
what we see is an image , what we hear is a voice ... the spirit has no image as it is not physical, not visible, but we can know it by Love ,see it in the Loving saints , respond to it with visions in the spirit [as Abraham], with words , with ceasing sin to become Love ourselves...

the spirit can manifest as the physical, as a universe or a man, but it cannot be physical in itself...

 

[dana b]

there are plenty of sons of God , tens of thousands ,not born of a virgin and not just the one ...

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
...
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Yes, i actually agree which what you are pointing out here. But i am not yet competent to defend these ideas with scripture, even to myself. I see them but am still in a process of understanding how much significance they have. And what type of significance they have. When do we change from being servants in the household into being sons of the household. That is how Jesus described it.


But the trinity perspective is still only visable and understandable to human beings and not to animals. Mankind has three perspectives into which each and every one of his thoughts fall under. Each thought or idea is in the material, historical or the mental perspective. The Bible divides into three parts which correspond with these three perspectives. This is a big subject for those who have a lot of time.

 

[barryrob]

But The Bible says as God's Word to us:-

Gal 3:19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed [JESUS] to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.*

1 Tim2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.*

Heb 8:6
But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.*

Heb 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.*

Heb 12:24
Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.*

*N.I.V.

The Greek word for "mediator" is "mesites" and literally means that which is in the middle, or the middleman or go between, and is defined as the one who stands between two parties in an effort to bring them together.


On Jesus is not Almighty God, he is the go between between Almighty God and Christians.

Almighty God cannot be a Mediator, thus Jesus cannot be Almighty God otherwise there is only two parties, which is not the case, there are three, Almighty God Jehovah, Jesus his Son and Christians.

rob

 

[JoJo50]

Sad so many wants to believe in a trinity which is a teaching of satan. And many fell right into his trap. There’s so much proof of how the trinity originated over the internet. Basically when it comes down to it, satan used the governments,(past), and church ,(also past), to start teaching a trinity. Just like Christians adopting the lie of Jesus being born dec., 25, (even though many say they know Jesus NEVER taught on what date and month to remember his brith). They adopted the lie of a trinity. And it’s this teaching, amongst others that will cost ones life.

Yet many STILL chooses to believe the three in one gods. I can understand if Jesus continually taught this, But there’s NO scriptures showing this. What I mean is, whenever Jesus spoke of a Heavenly couple, It’s ONLY him and his Father. Here’s a few scriptures…. 1 tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

1Cor. 8:5,6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. see....1Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. And John 10:30 I and my Father are one... and!... John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also. Now many tries to say there are one. But Jesus said…”MY Father.” STILL , NO mention of this “third being.” Again, why have Jesus NOT teach of a trinity?, he was sent here also to teach so that the whole world would know the truth.

And, in case many who would say, Jesus didn’t mention the Angels, but we KNOW they’re real! Notice this scripture…again!, (Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father). There!... the Angels were mentioned, so were humans, even the Father, STILL!... NO "THIRD BEING!"

As I gave food for thought, by means of Jehovah GOD’s…Holy Spirit, concerning what Jesus said here ,( Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. And here Matt. 12:31,32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come).

which ISN’T referring to a third being. why don't MANY stop to think, why did Jesus mention himself and the HS, in Matt. Verse 32, but NOT HIS FATHER? Since as many believe, “they are part of a trinity” I KNOW IF..i believe in a "trinity", I would want to know why God wasn’t mentioned. It’s because MANY understand the HS, ISN’T A "THIRD BEING" ,but Jehovah God’s power! Jesus was basically saying anyone can speak bad against him. But NOT against God’s power, or they will die, and STAY dead, meaning NO hope of a resurrection.

Jesus KNOWS, NO human OR spirit beings can touch his Father, meaning we have NO power that can even match him. even if satan makes us think we do have powers! And sorry if many don’t want to hear this, but Jesus can’t even touch his Father. Because regardless of what MANY wants to believe, Jesus was created also ,( Colo. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. And Heb. 1:3-5).

If Jesus was created as equal to God, he wouldn’t have to return ALL power that was given to him FROM his Father ,( 1Cor. 15:25-28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in al)l. I feel a contradiction when many say there are 3-in-1 gods, then say Jesus is the son, but still as part of a false teaching trinity.

Many wants to believe ONLY the unbelievers are fooled by satans lies. But believers better start knowing, satan also blinds the minds of the “believers.” Because many believe some truth. Jehovah God, NOT Jesus won’t hear their prayers , (Pro. 1:28-30 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me. For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD. They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them).

Now of course many will say, …”I don’t pray to Jehovah, I pray to Jesus.” Sad!.. but Jesus hears NO ONES prayers IF it’s directed to him. Becsause he ALREADY taught us how to pray and who to pray to!...(Matt. 6:9). And he told us that to get to his Father, we have to go through HIM, (John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me), this is why we SUPPOSE to pray to his Father, in JESUS NAME.

Many will ask, what makes one believe… they understand or know the truth? first it’s because God WON’T let ANY know the truth, IF they’re NOT willing to accept it, even if it meant being hated by family , friends, or society. Jesus showed this ,(Matt. 10:36,37 , Luke 21:16,17 , Luke 14:26 and Matt. 19:29). He won’t let ANYONE know or understand the truth, IF they love the world more than him ,(James 4:4 and 1John 2:15,16). ONLY those who want the truth, and are NOT of the world will know and understand the truth, (Dan. 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand).

These are the ones who would even push their wants and needs aside to do the will of Jesus Father. Which makes them Jesus true spiritual family ,( Matt. 12:50). Many seem to believe the truth Jesus taught stopped once the Apostles died. That makes NO sense, because that’s to say, they, didn’t teach, and they did! also what do one think Jesus meants when he said , (And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come?, Matt.24:14).

If true teachings stopped when they all died out, the end would have came and went. which would mean ONLY the righteous would be on earth today ,(Psa. 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth). So we can refuse to learn the truth, it’s ALL over the earth, but understand this. The end WILL come, and many will live to see it. That’s when those who DIDN’T want the truth, up to the end, will suddenly want it. And it would be too late, because ALL teachings will have stopped, (Amos - 8:11,12 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD. And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it). we better get it together! peace

 

[Rescued One]

Sad so many wants to believe in a trinity which is a teaching of satan.

Hmmm....Arianism is the lie!

And many fell right into his trap. There’s so much proof of how the trinity originated over the internet. Basically when it comes down to it, satan used the governments,(past), and church ,(also past), to start teaching a trinity.

The governments and church were restoring and clarifying truth against heresy.

Just like Christians adopting the lie of Jesus being born dec., 25, (even though many say they know Jesus NEVER taught on what date and month to remember his brith).

I've yet to meet any adult who believes that Christ was born on December 25th. Angels, shepherds, and wisemen celebrated His birth. So celebrating it isn't a sin.

They adopted the lie of a trinity. And it’s this teaching, amongst others that will cost ones life.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:25

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."
John 8:12

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
John 10:10

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12

Yet many STILL chooses to believe the three in one gods. I can understand if Jesus continually taught this, But there’s NO scriptures showing this.

There are plenty of scriptures that support the doctrine of the Triune God. There are none that teach three in one gods because there is only one God, not many.

 

[strangertoo]

Yes, i actually agree which what you are pointing out here. But i am not yet competent to defend these ideas with scripture, even to myself.

I honestly have no idea why anyone even cares how many sons, spirits, persons, aspects God has ... it clearly is that the number of sons increases , the number of spirits is one, but that has billions of aspects in the spirit of every man which comes from God... in one sense every saint becomes a person of God, that's 144,000 from this earth alone... and aspects of God, well billions... the only interesting thing about 'counting' God is that all this is ONE, it is NOT DIVIDED ... but as for taking three completely diverse aspecvcts of God and counting them and saying God is three ... well if anyone insanely wants to count then three is the WRONG answer, there are loads of other sons, aspects, persons, whatever , not just three ... God could be said to be many aspects in one God , but there is simply not three-ness about God at all , God is in no aspect three and in many aspects still ONE... never even vaguely three, nothing like three, not in any way three

I see them but am still in a process of understanding how much significance they have.

well I empathise, but the outstanding thing, the very ESSENCE of Love, is the one-ness of God which God requires all creation to emulate by Loving one another, so knowing God ...it is rather beautiful really... but if one even vaguely thinks God could be three [excluding the countless many aspects other that three one has arbitrarily chosen to count not even caring about the rules about counting , just picking one skyscaper of many, and one thought of many , and one universe of many ...and then saying that is three objects ... well it isn't , it simply is a lie and worse it is an utterly meaningless pointless lie, it serves no purpose to invent such a lie ... but 'trinity' is even more insane... God is spirit , the spirit of God is spirit , the spirit of God is God ... the spirit is IDENTICAL with God in every possible way , they are the SAME ... they are not TWO anythings , they are the SAME ... there is simply no way to [insanely] count 'Gods' and 'spirits' and get the answer 2 ... if I count me and myself, the answer is not 2 ... it is not a 'mystery' that I am two, it is a lie ... there is a difference between a mystery and a lie .... what is a mystery is how so many people count God and His spirit and INSIST there are TWO Gods/spirits in heaven... when God says there is not :-

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me

so WHY divide mankind by dogmatic insistence there are two, why excommunicate torture and kill people who insist there is but one... it is insane to say there are two... there are not, nor could there be two... why is even this site in apartheid over this sheer madness ? surely there must be some reason for it , it is so BIG a lethal problem dividing mankind...

but men in Rome changed the day of rest to Sunday so they could get rid of the saints of God and create a new again religion, so inventing a three-God to divide Christianity is no problem to them, it's a natural progression of nonsense of lies used to control men from knowing the real God of Love... and we know it must happen, Jesus said so himself , the Antichrist must come first because God requires Satan humbled by his involuntary death as a man [Ezek 28] AFTER he claims to be the God of all men [2Thess 2:4] because almost all men worship him as God and Christ in THIS earth -[Rev 13:3-4]

so we CAN understand the absolute pointlessness of counting God and finding the answer to be 3 , just another trick by Satan to get men to SAY they believe a lie, whicjh makes it so much easier to lie again ... and again... even about God and Jesus and the spirit and Love and sin...

And what type of significance they have.

well there could not be anything more significant than getting men passionately convinced that their spirit can be destroyed [LOL?] if they don't believe God is 3 in 1 ... a contradiction in terms so what hope for anyone who can be caused to believe it 'on faith in sinners' called 'faith in Jesus' ... the 'leap of faith' God would never expect anyone to make but billions do anyway , thus assuring their death as wages of sin , because they never escape from the obfuscation of man-made religion of the Antichrist... except to unite when he manifests and cry hallelujah or whatever ... God is with us ... despite Jesus' warnings not to believe it because this must come first and Jesus will NOT conquer this world first when he comes [to destroy it and all sinners and Satan once the saints are translated]

When do we change from being servants in the household into being sons of the household. That is how Jesus described it.

he also said that he is still [greatest] servant of all ... and could not lead his church were it not so...

But the trinity perspective is still only visable and understandable to human beings and not to animals.

well I would hope so too, perhaps human beings are indeed more stupid than animals, I often think so , no other creature would destroy nature's web of life and the earth we live on as we have done , think that is clever , and call it 'profit'

Mankind has three perspectives into which each and every one of his thoughts fall under.

unless you look at all the others too , or use a different analysis of 'perspectives'

Each thought or idea is in the material, historical or the mental perspective.

then again what about the monetary, spiritual, religious, futuristic, artistic, abstract, poetic, feelings, microscopic, macroscopic, relative, absolute, etc perspectives... seems to me there is no three-ness limit on number of perspectives either , in fact the plethora of perspectives in man-made religion is somewhat topical and runs into billions I think ...

The Bible divides into three parts which correspond with these three perspectives.

I guess I hope you do not believe that ... men make up so many lies about scripture and iit really helps no-one if one believes any of it ... if the scripture is NOT ONE then it is NOT the word of God insofar as it is not one Truth undivided...

This is a big subject for those who have a lot of time.

and thereby many ironies ... that men spend whole lifetimes studying scripture and never learn that ALL that God commanded them to do was Love, not read scripture , not study it, but just Love everyone ...

in fact if one only paid HEED to one line it would be vastly better than what almost all men do with scripture :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

what could be MORE important than one's FIRST step toward God, particularly when almost no-one in religion takes it ?

one cannot Love unless one stops being unloving ... this however is too complex a notion for almost all men , so they find not millions, but billins of ways to claim they are OK sinning all their lives, they do not need to Love ...

Satan is over the moon about this, folks love sin for now because they have not seen the consequences long-term, the end of this earth caused by man's sin ... greed of capitalism, lies of politicians and divided religion of sinners, murder in wars that only make world bankers fatter and more powerful whilst devastating millions of folks who never even wanted to fight for the insane men who tell them they must fight ... unlike Jesus who says not so...

but consider what God is saying in this one line of scripture , stop sinning and God will baptise one of His spirit to know all His Truth, no need to listen to divided religion of men, every reason not to ... why though?

partly because saints will run the kingdom come under Jesus, they need to be 100% pure in Love , God cannot entrust that to sinners like Satan entrusts his very popular religions to sinners...

but there is a deeper reason, sinners facing God one-on-one will die of the shock of the Truth about themselves, the shame is just too much ... men cannot face God and live until they get rid of all sin they canm get rid of by CHOOSING FREELY to stop ...God cannot choose for one, only advise that if one free oneself of as much sin as one can then God can tell one of all the sins one does not admit to oneself and one can begin trial of Love as a potential saint following Jesus... but God will not decide, judge, until Jesus returns [though one may die before that... so it DOES matter if one dies still sinning or not]

 

[dana b]

The Bible has and does show the Trinity.

 

[dana b]

 

[dana b]

 

[Veritas238]

But The Bible says as God's Word to us:-

Gal 3:19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed [JESUS] to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.*

1 Tim2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.*

Heb 8:6
But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.*

Heb 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.*

Heb 12:24
Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.*

*N.I.V.

The Greek word for "mediator" is "mesites" and literally means that which is in the middle, or the middleman or go between, and is defined as the one who stands between two parties in an effort to bring them together.


On Jesus is not Almighty God, he is the go between between Almighty God and Christians.

Almighty God cannot be a Mediator, thus Jesus cannot be Almighty God otherwise there is only two parties, which is not the case, there are three, Almighty God Jehovah, Jesus his Son and Christians.

rob

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. --Is. 9:6

How is Jesus NOT God from this scripture?

 

[barryrob]

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. --Is. 9:6

How is Jesus NOT God from this scripture?

Good point, but what does it say?

"The mighty God" NOT Almighty God, theses are very differing things, one had not limits whereas one does!

but one has to contunue the rest of the verse to see how make the above happen:-

Isaiah 9:6, 7

Part A
And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite.

Part B
The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.


Part A is prouduced by Part B, in other words the one how calls Jesus a "Mighty God" is Almighty God, "Jehovah," his Father. Showing Jesus is a lesser being or god than His Father Jehovah.


VARIOUS MEANINGS OF THE PHRASE "MIGHTY GOD"
(Hebrew El and gibbor) IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES (O.T.).

King James Version
Isa 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God (Heb. El gibbor), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isa 10:21 "The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God (Heb. El gibbor)."

Ezk 32:21 "The strong among the mighty (Heb. El gibbor; “mightiest of warriors”-TANAKH; “mighty chiefs” N.R.S.V.; “giants” LXX) shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword."

"At Isaiah 9:6 the future Messiah is called, among other titles, "Mighty God"; and "Eternal Father". Does this mean he is Almighty Jehovah and is a father that never began nor will never end? Jehovah is called "the mighty God" at Isaiah 10:21 (NASV) Because of this some have concluded that the Father and the Son are of equal rank; both being called "the mighty God". However others are referred to by the same title; does this make them equal to the Father in rank? This occurrence is found at Ezekiel 32:21. On this passage The New Century Bible, New Series, has this comment: "mighty chiefs is the plural of the Messianic title, "Mighty God" given the child in Isa 9:6 (MT 5) -[Jewish scribal] text, verse 5) "and could be rendered "mighty gods" just as correctly." If the original Hebrew text could call these human warriors 'mighty gods' without elevating them to the position of Jehovah, so could the Son of God be called without such elevation.

The Hebrew for "Mighty God" is "el" (god) "gibbor" (mighty) and has a broad range of meanings. We see in Brown, Driver, and Briggs. A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, page 42*, on "el" "applied to men of might and rank ... mighty heroes". In various translations this phrase is rendered as: "a divine hero" (Moffatt{Mo}); God-Hero" (New American Bible [NAB]; in battle God-like" (New English Bible [NEB]) and "Leaders of Champion" S. T. Byington [By.]).

Only the Father Jehovah is ever called "God Almighty" which, of course is above Mighty God". Neither the Son nor the holy spirit are ever called "God Almighty". The Father Jehovah is supreme and unique."-'The Trinity Doctrine' Examined in the Light of History and The Bible p.21
*Also see Gesenius Hebrew Chaldee Lexicon of the O.T. pp.45, 153.
A relevant comment is found in the book called 'Principles of Biblical interpretation' by Louis Berkhof pp.80-1:-
"In employing the aid of parallel passages, the interpreter must be sure that they are really parallel. In the words of Davidson. "it is not enough that the same term or phrase be found in both; there must be similarity of sentiment. . . .
Parallels of words properly so called. . . . In Isa. 9:6 the prophet says: "For unto us a child is born . . . and his name shall be called . . . Mighty God (El gibbor)." Gesenius finds no reference to God here, and renders these words "mighty hero." But in Isa. 10:21, the same phrase is employed in a context, in which it can only reefer to Deity. …"

Also See the following from James Strong's Hebrew Dictionary for other uses of the Hebrew "El-gibbor" or "Mighty God" applied to beings other than Jehovah:-

Strong's No.410 el {ale} shortened from 0352; T.W.O.T. - 93a; n m
A.V. - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1, Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power

Strong's No.1368 gibbowr {ghib-bore'} or (shortened) gibbor {ghib-bore'} intensive from 01396; T.W.O.T. - 310b
A.V. - mighty 63, mighty man 68, strong 4, valiant 3, .... ones 4, mighties 2, man 2, valiant men 2, strong man 1, upright man 1, champion 1, chief 1, excel 1, giant 1, men's 1, mightiest 1, strongest 1; 158
adj
1) strong, mighty n m
2) strong man, brave man, mighty man
Also see Theological Wordbook of the O.T. pp.41, 148-9

In various other translations this phrase "el gibbor" is rendered as when referring to humans: "a divine hero" -J. Moffatt; "God-Hero" -New American Bible; "Divine Champion" -S.T. Byington; "mightiest of warriors" -E. Goodspeed; "The strong among the mighty" -K.J.V.; "The mighty chiefs" -Revised Standard Version & the New Revised Standard Version; "Warrior chieftains" -Revised New English Bible; "greatest heroes" -Good News Bible; please see the text at Ezekiel 32:21 for this use of "el gibbor" and it being applied to men so if the original Hebrew text could call these human warriors "el gibbor" (literally "Mighty Gods") without elevating them to the position of Jehovah, so could the Son of God (Jesus) be called without such elevation.


rob

 

[strangertoo]

as proven and ignored , there being three apples in a bag does not prove there are no more than three...

there are tens of thousands of begotten sons of God not just one

and the holy spirit of God is God who is spirit and whose spirit is holy

there is no other holy spirit except God ...

thus why stop at three if counting sons of God ?

why see more than one God/spirit when God says he is alone ?

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[barryrob]

there are tens of thousands of begotten sons of God not just one


1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

That is right but not all the picture.

The Bible does call Jesus a "begotten" son but you did not note that Jesus is the only one to be called his "ONLY begotten" and this puts Jesus in a special postion in respect to the rest:-

John 1:14-18

So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, yes, he actually cried out—this was the one who said [it]—saying: “The one coming behind me has advanced in front of me, because he existed before me.&#8221 16 For we all received from out of his fullness, even undeserved kindness upon undeserved kindness. 17 Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. 18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.​

John 3:16-18

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.​

1 John 4:9

By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world . . .​

This makes Jesus unique form all other living things in the whole Cosmos, as he is the only Direct Creation of Jehovah God!

rob​

 

[barryrob]

Were in The Bible does it read "God The Holy Spirit?

rob