The Great Evil of Abortion

[Up Quark]

The Bible is quite clear that life begins at first breath. However no one is arguing that a zef is not alive simply that it's aliveness does not trump the pregnant womans rights.

Where is the Bible clear that life begins at first breath? In your own words, "you'll need to provide the scripture."

 

[Dan1988]

No one is sacrificing foetuses to gods, if you think they are the burden of proof is upon you to prove it. As for Jeremiah 2:34, perhaps you should read it more closely?

Jeremiah 2:34 "Also on your skirts is found The lifeblood of the innocent poor; You did not find them breaking in. But in spite of all these things..."

The whole passage is a diatribe against the sins of Israel and here God is speaking of the ways in which innocent people were being stripped of their possessions, NOT abortion.

Child sacrifice is purely Satanic, you can't fool God. He knows that abortion is sacrificing innocent babies to a god.

Remember a god is something you hold in the highest esteem, the one true God told us that there are many gods. Even the first commandment mentions many gods.

Those who sacrifice their babies do so because the baby will interfere with their freedom to serve their god, which in most cases is mammon. The heathen sacrifice their babies so they can live a selfish life of pleasing their flesh and the baby would interfere with that god.

I think you need to identify what a "god" means before you can get the concept of sacrificing babies to them.

In any case we can rest assured that God will punish them with eternal torment in hell fire, I burnt my hand on a BBQ once and it hurt really bad so I can't imagine how horrible it is for the whole body to burn forever.

 

[kiwimac]

Where is the Bible clear that life begins at first breath? In your own words, "you'll need to provide the scripture."

Let's begin with Genesis shall we? Genesis 2:7

God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being.”
Again in Job 33:4-“The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
In Ezekiel 37: 5&6- “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I shall lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

And then there's Exodus 21;

Exodus 21:22- “If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and *yet no mischief follows: he shall surely be punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.”

*Other translations write this as no harm comes to the mother.

According to the bible then, human life begins when the first breath is drawn. Further it should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense.

According to the bible, destroying a living fetus does not equate to killing a living human being even though the fetus has the potential of becoming a human being. One can not kill something that has not been born and taken a breath. This means that a stillborn would not be considered a human being either. Of course, every living sperm has the potential of becoming a human being although not one in a million will make it; the rest are aborted.

 

[kiwimac]

Child sacrifice is purely Satanic, you can't fool God. He knows that abortion is sacrificing innocent babies to a god.

Remember a god is something you hold in the highest esteem, the one true God told us that there are many gods. Even the first commandment mentions many gods.

Those who sacrifice their babies do so because the baby will interfere with their freedom to serve their god, which in most cases is mammon. The heathen sacrifice their babies so they can live a selfish life of pleasing their flesh and the baby would interfere with that god.

I think you need to identify what a "god" means before you can get the concept of sacrificing babies to them.

In any case we can rest assured that God will punish them with eternal torment in hell fire, I burnt my hand on a BBQ once and it hurt really bad so I can't imagine how horrible it is for the whole body to burn forever.

You know nothing and indeed you cannot know where people will be. But I would suggest that people who wish others to burn in hell stand a better than average chance of experiencing it themselves.

 

[SPF]

Just saw your post, I’ll respond soon.

 

[Dan1988]

You know nothing and indeed you cannot know where people will be. But I would suggest that people who wish others to burn in hell stand a better than average chance of experiencing it themselves.

You liberals are truly amazing, you have the incredible ability to twist scriptures to make them say anything you want them to. You can even make Satan look like a good guy, that takes a considerable amount of talent

 

[SkyWriting]

No, skywriting recommends abortions. He thinks it’s better to kill the unborn than have them born into what he thinks might be a difficult life.Personally, I would never recommend that as I don’t want to play God. Who knows what God has planned for anyone. But apparently according to skywriting, unless a child is born to two loving parents in a suburban household with a steady income stream, abortion is a perfectly acceptable choice by the mom.

I would spend an entire post rephrasing what others have posted if I thought I could speak better for them.

 

[SkyWriting]

Do they? There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Only 1 of 4 zygotes make to birth naturally.

 

[SkyWriting]

When you think about it, according to society, Jesus was born to an unmarried mother, therefore he was expected to have a difficult life. I guess that according to our friend, if Jesus had been conceived in our Western society, he could have been aborted. Just think. If that had happened, we would have no gospel, no church, and salvation. I wonder how many potentionally powerful men and women of God were aborted in the womb instead of being given the chance to receive Christ, go on for God and have powerful ministries? Wouldn't it be a very rude shock for a parent to be told by God in the Judgment that His plan for their unborn child was to be a great Holy Ghost evangelist winning thousands to Christ, but His plan was destroyed through their selfishness in not wanting the child?

God plans and executes the spin of each electron in the Cosmos and holds it in it's orbit.

 

[SkyWriting]

No, skywriting recommends abortions. He thinks it’s better to kill the unborn than have them born into what he thinks might be a difficult life.

Personally, I would never recommend that as I don’t want to play God. Who knows what God has planned for anyone. But apparently according to skywriting, unless a child is born to two loving parents in a suburban household with a steady income stream, abortion is a perfectly acceptable choice by the mom.

If find it's better to not interfere with the mothers decisions than
have a world where we do just that.

 

[SkyWriting]

When you think about it, according to society, Jesus was born to an unmarried mother, therefore he was expected to have a difficult life. I guess that according to our friend, if Jesus had been conceived in our Western society, he could have been aborted. Just think. If that had happened, we would have no gospel, no church, and salvation. I wonder how many potentionally powerful men and women of God were aborted in the womb instead of being given the chance to receive Christ, go on for God and have powerful ministries? Wouldn't it be a very rude shock for a parent to be told by God in the Judgment that His plan for their unborn child was to be a great Holy Ghost evangelist winning thousands to Christ, but His plan was destroyed through their selfishness in not wanting the child?

To take the more moral approach we must monitor all women that exist for signs of pregnancy then hold them in captivity until they give birth.

Anything less than confining all pregnant women for 9 months is advocating for the murder of innocent children.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

To take the more moral approach we must monitor all women that exist for signs of pregnancy then hold them in captivity until they give birth.

Anything less than confining all pregnant women for 9 months is advocating for the murder of innocent children.

The thing about that is that because God created us with free will to do what we choose, then He allows people to make their decisions about what they believe is best for them. But there is a price to pay later on, because according to the Scripture, it is appointed for people once to die and after that comes the Judgment.

Morality is confused in current society, because there are no central objective values any more. Humanism has so infected society and large parts of the Church that every individual sets their own moral code and if challenged will say, "You've got your opinion and I've got mine." It is only the true Christians who have their faith and trust in the Person-Infinite God, who set their moral values on the central moral code set by the Ten Commandments and the principles set out in the Mosiac Law. But Christian humanists, to try and avoid the requirements of God's moral code, will say, "You've got your interpretation, and I've got mine." When we all come to Judgment, either in front of the Great White Throne in the case of non-Christians, or the judgment seat of Christ for Christians (to receive their rewards), everything will be based on the moral code that God Himself has communicated through the Scripture, either through the Law and the Prophets, or through the inspired writers of the New Testament.

 

[SkyWriting]

The thing about that is that because God created us with free will to do what we choose, then He allows people to make their decisions about what they believe is best for them. But there is a price to pay later on, because according to the Scripture, it is appointed for people once to die and after that comes the Judgment.

Morality is confused in current society, because there are no central objective values any more. Humanism has so infected society and large parts of the Church that every individual sets their own moral code and if challenged will say, "You've got your opinion and I've got mine." It is only the true Christians who have their faith and trust in the Person-Infinite God, who set their moral values on the central moral code set by the Ten Commandments and the principles set out in the Mosiac Law. But Christian humanists, to try and avoid the requirements of God's moral code, will say, "You've got your interpretation, and I've got mine." When we all come to Judgment, either in front of the Great White Throne in the case of non-Christians, or the judgment seat of Christ for Christians (to receive their rewards), everything will be based on the moral code that God Himself has communicated through the Scripture, either through the Law and the Prophets, or through the inspired writers of the New Testament.

Or the law the Holy Spirit wrote in our hearts before anything was written or read.
The scriptures are not that important, according to the scriptures.

 

[SkyWriting]

It is only the true Christians who have their faith and trust in the Person-Infinite God, who set their moral values on the central moral code set by the Ten Commandments and the principles set out in the Mosiac Law.

2 Corinthians
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

James 4:6
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Ephesians
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 Corinthians
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that
while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

John 1:16
And from his fullness we have all received,
grace upon grace.

Romans 3:20-24
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight,

since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
and are justified by his grace as a gift,
through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

 

[SkyWriting]

The thing about that is that because God created us with free will to do what we choose, then He allows people to make their decisions about what they believe is best for them.

But we don't have to be accomplices to murder, so if we fail
to lock up pregnant women, we are guilty of the same crime
if they should choose abortion.

If a baby should die for medical reasons, same thing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Only 1 of 4 zygotes make to birth naturally.

Those are not in the direct control of anyone, therefore there is no responsibility attached.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If find it's better to not interfere with the mothers decisions than
have a world where we do just that.

It will be the mother who will stand in the Judgment and account for her decisions.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Or the law the Holy Spirit wrote in our hearts before anything was written or read.
The scriptures are not that important, according to the scriptures.

The written Scriptures were compiled at God's express instructions. Therefore they are the final authority. Jesus used them that way, and so does the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will never contradict the written Scriptures. John says that we are to test every spirit to ensure that it originates from God. The way the spirit is tested is whether it is consistent with the written Scriptures. When the devil tried to use the written Scriptures against Jesus during His 40 days of temptation, he quoted them out of context. Jesus fired back at him using the Scriptures in context. He said, "It is written". If you read through the first five books of the Bible you will see God's express instructions to write down what He is saying to Moses and Joshua. We would not know what the Prophets said unless they were written down. We would have no idea of the life and ministry of Jesus , the Church and the teachings of the Apostles unless they were written down. The devil can impersonate the Holy Spirit and quote stuff out of context and get people to believe that what comes in "the Spirit" (in reality, a lying spirit), is more important than the written Scriptures. We need to be on our guard so that we are not deceived. Most deception that has come in the Church is come as a result of people saying, "The Holy Spirit spoke to me" but did not check with the written Scriptures to verify it.

 

[SkyWriting]

It will be the mother who will stand in the Judgment and account for her decisions.

I don't see why we would be off the hook in saving her child from
harm unless we do everything possible to prevent that.
We should be equally culpable for our neglect.
Just putting our fingers in our moral ears will not save us
if she chooses abortion.
And if we fail to offer adoption to every pregnant women
who exists, again we are just as guilty.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

2 Corinthians
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

James 4:6
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Ephesians
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 Corinthians
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that
while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

John 1:16
And from his fullness we have all received,
grace upon grace.

Romans 3:20-24
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight,

since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
and are justified by his grace as a gift,
through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

If you are using these quotes to say that the written Scriptures are not the foundation of Christian faith and practice, and they are not God's method of communicating with mankind, then you are misquoting them out of context to try and prove your point.