The god who (once again) wasn't there: Virginia Tech

[Theogonia]

I don't think some of them were ever from God.

I believe that as well.

 

[elman]

Spirit and flesh are two completely different substances. God can only be physical through his creation.

Why would he want to be? Maybe he was manifested in every other possible way and physically was the final step for completeness.

I think God can be whatever He wants whenever He wants. We can however trust Him to not be evil or unloving. And I don't think God needed us to be complete. We certainly do need Him however to be complete.

 

[Theogonia]

I think it works both ways. We complete God, and he completes us.

 

[mophed20]

the idea is that God is not dependent upon anything. nor anyone. so how would we complete an already complete God. Christ existed before time, God was "complete" (as you call it) before time was. so i can't imagine how it would be anything else.

 

[loudatheist101]

the idea is that God is not dependent upon anything. nor anyone. so how would we complete an already complete God. Christ existed before time, God was "complete" (as you call it) before time was. so i can't imagine how it would be anything else.

What if the Law of Conservation was true, and the Universe was always here?

 

[mophed20]

What if the Law of Conservation was true, and the Universe was always here?

can you give me a little intro to the Law of Conservation. i admit, i am not much of a science guy.

 

[elman]

What if the Law of Conservation was true, and the Universe was always here?

Then there is no Creator of the Univers.

 

[loudatheist101]

It states that energy and certain matter cannot be created or destroyed, I'm not exactly 100% certain of this, but I sort of believe maybe the Universe was always here, I need to yet clarify this belief with sources first. That is a theory I have right now.

 

[Theogonia]

so how would we complete an already complete God.

Oh I forgot. To say that God is complete would be implying that he has an end, and therefore is not infinite. So a better way to view this world is that we are the latest manifestation of God, but not the last.

Christ existed before time,

The messianic function of God existed before time because it was and is a part of God. This is not however, Christ.

But here's an interesting thought, does not existence imply the passing of time? If that is true how could have God existed before there was such a thing as time?

God was "complete" (as you call it) before time was. so i can't imagine how it would be anything else.

Why not? Why is it so hard to imagine that we sustain God?

 

[loudatheist101]

(No Post)

 

[loudatheist101]

Then there is no Creator of the Univers.

Exactly.

 

[Phil4987]

How so? Did God or Christ say to kill people? Did They specifically tell people to go and kill all those who are Romans or Greeks? Little children who beg for their lives included?

One example where the Christian god endoreses murder

Joshua 8

24 When Israel had finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the desert where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who were in it. 25 Twelve thousand men and women fell that day—all the people of Ai. 26 For Joshua did not draw back the hand that held out his javelin until he had destroyed [a] all who lived in Ai. 27 But Israel did carry off for themselves the livestock and plunder of this city, as the LORD had instructed Joshua.

I know there is more, and will seek them if necessary. They kill children and livestock as well. This cannot be justified by any moral, sane person.

How so? The only self-proclaimed Christians that would do so, are those who are not really Christian at all.

False, it's not all unreasonable for ancient peoples to want heretic burned, and slaughtered. It says so in your "holy book." It's perfectly reasonable and very Christian-like if you believe the book literally. Of course back then its possible that these people were unaware of the OT law fulfillment. That said, your god is still a mass murder, and did invent genocide.

God allows things to happen. He does not go to someone in their dreams and say "hey buddy, kill Bill, Bob, Joey and Jeff"; like you so make it sound.

False, free will is an illusion. Fear and desire are illusions. The divine may exist but not the ay you believe it does.

I have been nothing but respectful in this thread. If you respect me, I'll continue to respect you. I see no reason for the disrespect.

It is absurd that you think your beliefs should be respected. Itwould be similar to asking me to respect you for denying the Holocaust ever happened.

 

[Phil4987]

I think God can be whatever He wants whenever He wants. We can however trust Him to not be evil or unloving. And I don't think God needed us to be complete. We certainly do need Him however to be complete.

No you cannot trust Her to be not loving. The divine is likely uncaring at all. If you believe in the divine and a lesser form, r full form of deterinism, it is clear that God is both the most benefical to humans and also the most harmful.

 

[mophed20]

to me it's circular reasoning. to others, perhaps relative thinking.

you don't believe in God, so there was no creation, because science says so.

i do believe in God, and that God created science, and it makes no sense to think that 110% of everything having to do with God needs to be proven, because a.) we are fallen being, who purposely stray away from Him; b.) I (as well as most if not all Christians) believe that He created our minds, and is therefore above our human reasoning. Christianity is a matter of faith, and if you can't accept that, well perhaps you are where you will be fulfilled for your 50+ more years.

don't get me wrong, i believe that there is more fulfillment in Christ, but some people just can't see how that's possible because there's not enough scientific and logical evidence.

if the Law of Conservation was true, then there would be no God, just like the guy above me said.

 

[Phil4987]

It states that energy and certain matter cannot be created or destroyed, I'm not exactly 100% certain of this, but I sort of believe maybe the Universe was always here, I need to yet clarify this belief with sources first. That is a theory I have right now.

I don't think you can be sure.

Oh I forgot. To say that God is complete would be implying that he has an end, and therefore is not infinite. So a better way to view this world is that we are the latest manifestation of God, but not the last.


But here's an interesting thought, does not existence imply the passing of time? If that is true how could have God existed before there was such a thing as time?

It depends on how you drfine infinity. It is a very borad mathematical term. But, you're using manmade, man defined semantical concepts, and notions to make conclusions about reality.

 

[mophed20]

Oh I forgot. To say that God is complete would be implying that he has an end, and therefore is not infinite. So a better way to view this world is that we are the latest manifestation of God, but not the last.



The messianic function of God existed before time because it was and is a part of God. This is not however, Christ.

But here's an interesting thought, does not existence imply the passing of time? If that is true how could have God existed before there was such a thing as time?



Why not? Why is it so hard to imagine that we sustain God?

regarding your first part: i put " "'s around complete because i thought the same thing.

the second, that is a matter of Jewish/Christian doctrine, and that is not the point of this discussion. existence is really a poor explanation of God as well, for that very reason. i keep telling you guys all this stuff about how language is a human creation, science is a human creation, logic is a human creation, and is the product of the mind that was given to us by God. do you get it? God does not exist! God is! God was! God will always be unto the ages of ages! (instead of our lame word "unto" insert the greek word "heos," it's a little more correct. if you are looking for the meaning, it's here: http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=2193) make sense?

and the last part: how would a God who is infinite, all powerful, all knowing, and the creator of all, want or even need to be sustained. doesn't He have everything He needs (which is everything+infinity+fill in the blank with an inexpressible word that our finite brains are unable to understand).

 

[dialee16]

Humans brought this upon themselves. God would have LOVED to stop this shooting, but we humans have to learn suffering on earth. Becuase humans will suffer on earth, we will not dream of trying to overthrow god in heaven like satan did, becuase by then we will have learned true suffering and what happens when you try to overthrow god for personal gain.

 

[loudatheist101]

Humans brought this upon themselves. God would have LOVED to stop this shooting, but we humans have to learn suffering on earth. Becuase humans will suffer on earth, we will not dream of trying to overthrow god in heaven like satan did, becuase by then we will have learned true suffering and what happens when you try to overthrow god for personal gain.

Ok, hypothetically speaking, God is all powerful, we would never over power Him, neither should Satan. He is all knowing, He would know when it would happen. He seems really selfish. It's like a father locking his 14 kids in the cellar for them to learn to suffer so they do not overthrow him.

 

[dialee16]

Ok nobody ever said angels knew how powerful God actually was proir to when the revolution in heaven began. Perhaps only after the rebelion did everyone relize how powerful god really is.

Heaven isn't a physical place at all, it's a spiritual place, and if someone had decided they wanted to overthrow god, God wouldn't just obliterate them. Satin didn't do anything wrong proir to the rebelion, so god prevoisly had no reason to destroy him.

The rebelion wan't a war like a war on earth. God and his angels simply outweighed Satin and his forces and they were cast away from heaven.

 

[loudatheist101]

Ok nobody ever said angels knew how powerful God actually was proir to when the revolution in heaven began. Perhaps only after the rebelion did everyone relize how powerful god really is.

Heaven isn't a physical place at all, it's a spiritual place, and if someone had decided they wanted to overthrow god, God wouldn't just obliterate them. Satin didn't do anything wrong proir to the rebelion, so god prevoisly had no reason to destroy him.

The rebelion wan't a war like a war on earth. God and his angels simply outweighed Satin and his forces and they were cast away from heaven.

Wasn't Satan an angel?