The god who (once again) wasn't there: Virginia Tech

[loudatheist101]

Sounds like defense of an abusive father to me.

Sure Mr. Johnson broke Timmy's arm but he was trying to teach him!

Or to make it seem more realistic to God, Mr. Johnson starved which eventually killed Tommy, because he was just trying to teach Tommy like any loving father would.

 

[MikeMcK]

God burns those who do not love Him for one little lifetime, in hell for eternity.

Also, He tells us to murder homosexuals.

I'd be curious to see where you found that. My guess is that you'll pull up some Old Covenant verse, knowing full well that the Old Covenant is no longer in effect, but I'd still like to see it.

 

[loudatheist101]

I'd be curious to see where you found that. My guess is that you'll pull up some Old Covenant verse, knowing full well that the Old Covenant is no longer in effect, but I'd still like to see it.

Read Leviticus 20:13.

 

[MikeMcK]

Read Leviticus 20:13.

So, do you have an example of God ordering anyone to kill anyone that wasn't given specifically to Old Covenant Jews?

 

[mophed20]

the difference from the old covenant and the new covenant is that in the old, God's wrath was that He punished those who disobeyed Him, mainly just the Israelites, in order to shape them. and in the new covenant, God's wrath was that He gave us all to our own sinful desires, with all the implications and consequences included (for free!). see the difference? and i think that the new covenant is scarier. but that's just me...

 

[Morcova]

So, do you have an example of God ordering anyone to kill anyone that wasn't given specifically to Old Covenant Jews?

Funny, jesus said he didn't come to do away with the law but to fulfill it... so yes you are still held to the "old covenant" laws.

 

[m9lc]

the Old Covenant is no longer in effect

[BIBLE]Isaiah 40:8[/BIBLE]
[BIBLE]Psalm 19:7[/BIBLE]

I know full well how Christians rationalize the apalling behaviors of God displayed in the OT. I also know what the Bible says. And it says that the law of God is perfect, and stands forever. That is, it doesn't change.

 

[MikeMcK]

Funny, jesus said he didn't come to do away with the law but to fulfill it... so yes you are still held to the "old covenant" laws.

Actually, we're not talking about the law. We're talking about the Covenants.

The Bible is very clear that Christ fulfilled the 0ld Covenant and ushered in the New Covenant.

 

[MikeMcK]

[bible]Isaiah 40:8[/bible]
[bible]Psalm 19:7[/bible]

Excellent verses, both. However, they have nothing to do with the Covenants.

I also know what the Bible says. And it says that the law of God is perfect, and stands forever. That is, it doesn't change.

And if we were talking about the Law, you might have a point, but we're not. We're talking about the Covenants.

 

[mophed20]

M9lc and Morcova are at odds with each other... if you both knew the implications of what you said, you may not have said them...

ok, let me tell you how it is guys. if you look at the old testament as a bunch of do's and don'ts, you are missing it...that's not what it's about (though it is good to follow the law). it was about pointing to the messiah. the law was perfect! but you are supposed to look at the old testament as it has to do with the Messiah. this is not new, the pharisees argued this too, they were too bent on the law to see the Messiah standing right in front of them! Christ fulfilled the Law. that's what it was there for, to give glory to the Father. not to condemn us. it points to Jesus. because He followed the Law, to the "t." some might say "well, He healed on the Sabbath!" well the point of the Sabbath was not to come before loving your neighbor. and, He is the God of the Sabbath.

 

[mophed20]

Sounds like defense of an abusive father to me.

Sure Mr. Johnson broke Timmy's arm but he was trying to teach him!

i love how you assume the logic of a human and the logic of God are the same (or even similar). is not God the God above logic? did He not create our minds?!

 

[Morcova]

M9lc and Morcova are at odds with each other... if you both knew the implications of what you said, you may not have said them...

ok, let me tell you how it is guys. if you look at the old testament as a bunch of do's and don'ts, you are missing it...that's not what it's about (though it is good to follow the law). it was about pointing to the messiah. the law was perfect! but you are supposed to look at the old testament as it has to do with the Messiah. this is not new, the pharisees argued this too, they were too bent on the law to see the Messiah standing right in front of them! Christ fulfilled the Law. that's what it was there for, to give glory to the Father. not to condemn us. it points to Jesus. because He followed the Law, to the "t." some might say "well, He healed on the Sabbath!" well the point of the Sabbath was not to come before loving your neighbor. and, He is the God of the Sabbath.

Funny the jews say otherwise.

 

[Morcova]

i love how you assume the logic of a human and the logic of God are the same (or even similar). is not God the God above logic? did He not create our minds?!

I love how you wish to ignore all points you dislike by claiming it doesn't apply to god.

Sorry but your god was quite clear when it came to how we mere mortals were supposed to think of him... a father.

 

[mophed20]

regarding what do the Jews say otherwise?

yes, a Father, thus who are we to question His authority, and His logic (even though that is a limiting word to describe His wisdom).

well so far, all the opinions that you've brought to me are interpretation of the Scriptures from a purely atheistic logic-based standpoint, and that was not how the Scriptures were written nor how they should be read. Christ is to be central, because that's what it all points to. if you want to try and explain God with worldly logic, be my guest, you probably won't like it. which i assume you have already done that. but the scripture was not written with the intellectual rubric of a mind from the 21st century who has foregone the enlightenment, renaissance, dark ages, middle ages and who speaks English. it's silly that we think the scriptures were formed to explain the meaning of life and eternity to someone in the 21st century. mystery was fine in the beginning of the Church, and the mystical was okay. but now we have all these pretrib, post trib, evolution, mid trib, immaculate conception, vicary of Christ, and we feel that everything needs a scientific explanation in order to even be given the time of day.

Disclosure- i am not saying go ahead and be ignorant, i am merely saying that we have this ethos that somehow is centered on 21st century post-modern thought. ok that being said...blessings!

 

[Theogonia]

Here's another way of looking at why God created us and this world.

Humans cannot fly, so they build planes so they can. Likewise, God cannot be physical, so he created us and the world so he could be manifested physically.

 

[Theogonia]

There is only one logic. Christians always try and explain away the illogical by saying "it's God's logic".

I think some of the OT laws were culture related and that is why they no longer apply.

 

[E.C.]

There is only one logic. Christians always try and explain away the illogical by saying "it's God's logic".

I find that its usually the Protestants who like to explain things.

Why can't we just accept that God knows what He's doing?

 

[elman]

Here's another way of looking at why God created us and this world.

Humans cannot fly, so they build planes so they can. Likewise, God cannot be physical, so he created us and the world so he could be manifested physically.

Not reasonable. God would be able to be physical if He wished. Why would He want to be?

 

[elman]

Here's another way of looking at why God created us and this world.

Humans cannot fly, so they build planes so they can. Likewise, God cannot be physical, so he created us and the world so he could be manifested physically.

There is only one logic. Christians always try and explain away the illogical by saying "it's God's logic".

I think some of the OT laws were culture related and that is why they no longer apply.

I don't think some of them were ever from God.

 

[Theogonia]

Not reasonable. God would be able to be physical if He wished. Why would He want to be?

Spirit and flesh are two completely different substances. God can only be physical through his creation.

Why would he want to be? Maybe he was manifested in every other possible way and physically was the final step for completeness.