The Global Flood

Self Improvement

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JohnR7 said:
The Bible answers this, it took that long for the water to go down.



Birds can not fly forever, they would have to land on something sooner or later.

There were a lot of animals in Eden, mostly domesticated animals. God wanted to save them to repopulate the world.



Science tell us that they were created by the glaciers. As they ice pushed land before them.
He was asking why those things would be if there were no global flood.
 
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AV1611VET

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BeamMeUpScotty said:
I would love to know how NoahCo ever took care of even the smallest fraction of them.
First and foremost, Noah was only to obey; and God took care of the details --- His way. Thus it was GodCo, not NoahCo.

Second: the Ark had 3 stories --- (Genesis 6:16).

Third: the animals wouldn't have been eating nearly that amount of food under the extreme hostile conditions of the Flood.

In addition, the story of Daniel in the Lion's Den shows lions passively sitting there while Daniel was among them.

In addition, the story of Elijah and the widow in 1 Kings 17:8-16 easily explains the food "dilemma" - (see especially vss 14 and 16).

Fourth: I don't think nearly as many animals boarded as you calculate.
 
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JohnR7

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BeamMeUpScotty said:
You said your wife is from the Philippines, where a majority of the people are Christian. Yet why is there such widespread poverty and deprivation? These people are trusting in God to provide for them, but they are still poor and hungry.
Like I said many times, she believe that we have to do our part. It was a sacrifice for her to get her education. But once she graduated from college she was able to go to Hong Kong and get a job to help others in her family get a college education. In fact up to half of her money still goes back to the Philippines to help her family.

We have a lot of opportunities here in this country. They do not have near as many opportunities there as we have here. Still, if they take advantage of the opportunities they have, then they will be fine.

There is more to it then just this, but this is a part of it.
 
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BeamMeUpScotty

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AV1611VET said:
First and foremost, Noah was only to obey; and God took care of the details --- His way. Thus it was Godco, not NoahCo.

Second: the Ark had 3 stories --- (Genesis 6:16).

Third: the animals wouldn't have been eating nearly that amount of food under the extreme hostile conditions of the Flood.

In addition, the story of Daniel in the Lion's Den shows lions passively sitting there while Daniel was among them.

In addition, the story of Elijah and the widow in 1 Kings 17:8-16 easily explains the food "dilemma" - (see especially vss 14 and 16).

Fourth: I don't think nearly as many animals boarded as you calculate.

First, again, if you allow for miracles, why would you seek naturalistic explanations. If God performed the miracles, which he would of had to, why do YECs seek to explain the story without God through naturalistic explanations?

Second, I know the ark had 3 floors. I purposefully left them out to give more room.

Third, I do agree that the ark would have been under extremely hostile conditions, so much so that it could have never survived (without miracles). Where do you get the idea that they wouldn't have been eating as much food? How much food would they have been eating? How do you know? Please provide some numbers and sources.

Fourth, how many animals would have been on board? How do you know? How do you explain their distribution afterward? How do you explain the extremely rapid speciation that would have had to taken place after the flood? How do you know this?
 
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BeamMeUpScotty

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JohnR7 said:
Like I said many times, she believe that we have to do our part. It was a sacrifice for her to get her education. But once she graduated from college she was able to go to Hong Kong and get a job to help others in her family get a college education. In fact up to half of her money still goes back to the Philippines to help her family.

We have a lot of opportunities here in this country. They do not have near as many opportunities there as we have here. Still, if they take advantage of the opportunities they have, then they will be fine.

There is more to it then just this, but this is a part of it.

Your wife was a lucky one. It still doesn't explain why there is so much poverty and deprivation if God will provide for those who trust in him. Are you saying they don't trust in God?

The fact of the matter is they don't really have opportunities to take advantage of, plus many other factors which help perpetuate the poverty.
 
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AV1611VET

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Self Improvement said:
Where is your evidence that birds were aboard the Ark...
Genesis 6:20 --- he also sent out a raven and a dove.

...Noah was on it for over a year...
cp. Genesis 7:11 with 8:14

...the Ark was "so big"...
Genesis 6:15

...and there would have to be a containment wall for a local flood...
Only if the Flood was local would a containment wall be needed. It wasn't a local flood.

...or that there was a global flood in the first place?
If you're asking me, my answer is: God said it - that settles it.

Also, if there is a flood in New Orleans, does there need to be a containment wall to keep it from spreading to the entire world? No, there would not be enough water to flood the entire world in a local flood.
New Orleans was inundated in a very, very short period of time, thus a containment wall wouldn't be necessary.

My wife and I were in Supertyphoon Pamela that struck Guam in May of 1976. The eye of that storm went right over the island. It's now 30 years later, and I remember it like it was yesterday. We'll never forget it.
 
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AV1611VET

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JohnR7 said:
There were a lot of animals in Eden, mostly domesticated animals. God wanted to save them to repopulate the world.
Eden???

I sincerely believe (but can't prove) that Noah lived in what is now North America, but it's based on the flimsiest of interpretation: that God has a sense of humor.

Science tell us that they were created by the glaciers. As they ice pushed land before them.
The glaciers wouldn't have come until after the Flood, when, in the absence of a water canopy to create a global tropical climate, the ice froze from the polar regions down to the Terminal Moraine - then receded to their present location. This is what "scientists" call the "Ice Age".
 
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AV1611VET

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JohnR7 said:
Like I said many times, she believe that we have to do our part. It was a sacrifice for her to get her education. But once she graduated from college she was able to go to Hong Kong and get a job to help others in her family get a college education. In fact up to half of her money still goes back to the Philippines to help her family.
John, I salute your wife. She must be a real trooper!
 
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AV1611VET

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You don't know me very well, do you? LOL

BeamMeUpScotty said:
First, again, if you allow for miracles, why would you seek naturalistic explanations.
For the third time, you must have me confused with someone else. I never said the Flood was purely naturalistic.

If God performed the miracles, which he would of had to, why do YECs seek to explain the story without God through naturalistic explanations?
I don't know --- I'm not a YEC.

Second, I know the ark had 3 floors. I purposefully left them out to give more room.
This is why God runs the universe, and not us.

Third, I do agree that the ark would have been under extremely hostile conditions, so much so that it could have never survived (without miracles). Where do you get the idea that they wouldn't have been eating as much food? How much food would they have been eating? How do you know? Please provide some numbers and sources.
No thanks --- I only relay what's in the Bible (with a little science attached for good measure).

Fourth, how many animals would have been on board? How do you know?
I don't know --- I wasn't there. I'm not so sure Noah himself knew. He was probably too busy with other things, and didn't care to count. (I certainly wouldn't have.)

How do you explain their distribution afterward?
I would guess they would radiate outward from a central location. Not really sure, of course --- I wasn't there.

How do you explain the extremely rapid speciation that would have had to taken place after the flood? How do you know this?
I don't --- I leave that to the "experts".

I vaguely remember a long time ago seeing a documentary called "The Hellstrom Chronicles" (I think was the name), where they said that if every insect disappeared off the face of the earth but a male and female, they would repopulate the earth in just a very short period of time.

I would say too, that food would be abundant everywhere in the thousands of years afterward, especially for the herbivores.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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JohnR7 said:
No one goes to bed hungry that is trusting in God to provide for them.
What world do you live in? It sounds like a good one, too bad it doesn't exist.

But this is off-topic here. Since you don't believe in a global flood the heat problems in the OP, and the problems with biogeography, paleontology and so on do not apply to you. I think there are some significant problems with a local flood of the magnitude and particularly duration that you describe but those are also off-topic for this thread. Both you and AV161VET seem to be sure that you have the correct literal interpretation of the Bible but those interpretations are very different. I think that is a topic for GA but it is not as off-topic here as some of the other things being discussed which really do belong in Apologetics.

F.B.
 
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Beastt

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JohnR7 said:
No one goes to bed hungry that is trusting in God to provide for them.
In the demonstrable world, John, it is the lifestyle adopted by the majority in the predominantly Christian countries which render it nearly impossible for people in many other areas to receive enough food. When you choose to utilize a full acre to produce the food you require and your wife makes the same choices, about thirty-eight people are forced to search for scraps. An acre should be able to fully provide for the dietary needs of 20-people. That would be the case if the growing power of that land weren't squandered on the diet-style to which you have become accustom and to which Genesis 9 claims God allows.
 
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Beastt

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AV1611VET said:
Second: the Ark had 3 stories --- (Genesis 6:16).
And only one window. Are you familiar with the ammonia levels present in animal excrement?

AV1611VET said:
Third: the animals wouldn't have been eating nearly that amount of food under the extreme hostile conditions of the Flood.
Under extreme stress metabolization increases resulting in the utilization of more calories, not less. You have it backward.

AV1611VET said:
In addition, the story of Daniel in the Lion's Den shows lions passively sitting there while Daniel was among them.
Would you like to talk about carnivore physiology, AV1611VET?

The Bible says "A" and the Bible says "B". Therefore, "B" proves "A"?
Circular reasoning. You can't use the Bible as support for the Bible.

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AV1611VET said:
Fourth: I don't think nearly as many animals boarded as you calculate.
I agree with your wording. Thinking, ("assuming" in this case) verses actual calculations.
 
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Beastt

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JohnR7 said:
Nullify nothing.
We have seen God's miracle of supply
Feed the rich, let the poor starve, (apparently).
.
JohnR7 said:
So if it is a miracle we see a lot of today,
Yes, the rich are dying from over-eating and the poor are dying from malnutrition.

JohnR7 said:
why would God not perform the miracle of supply back in the days of Noah?
Because by the time he's finished with;
The Miracle of keeping the Ark afloat,
The Miracle of keeping the animals from dying from all the disease which would result from such close, poorly ventilated quarters,
The Miracle required to get animals from diverse ecological environments to the Ark without killing them as well as keeping desert dwelling animals and arctic creatures in appropriate accomodations,
The Miracle required to keep the 40-days and nights of constant rain from completely and catastrophically altering the Earth's climate,
The Miracle required to have enough water to flood the planet,
The Miracle necessary to keep the living quarters from filling with excrement in a matter of a day or so,
The Miracle required to accomodate aquatic creatures which could never survive a true global flood and at least half a dozen other miracles,​
any logical God would realize that since he just zapped up all life on Earth to begin with, it would make far more sense to just zap away all the life on Earth and start again from scratch.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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livingword26 said:
You are limited to knowledge that your little brain can decipher.
The knowledge accumulated by many thousands of scientists in the areas of geology, geophysics, atmospheric physics, biogeography, biodiversity, archeology and other areas of science has conclusively falsified the Genesis Flood as a worldwide event. We have discussed some of the falsifications before and there are many others.

Nature, science, and physical understandings change as the wind blows.
Science improves as more data and knowledge are aquired but that doesn't mean that falsified hypotheses will be resurrected. The global flood has been totally dead as a scientific hypothesis for about 150 years. There is as much chance that Phlogiston theory will be brought back as there is that the Genesis flood as global flood will ever be accepted again as a serious scientific hypothesis (i.e. no chance).
How arrogant of a man to think he can understand the workings of the world, when he really cannot grasp that he, in all his glory, is made of the same three particles as a grain of sand.
As is everything else and I have realized that for about 50 years now so what makes you think man cannot really grasp it?

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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AV1611VET said:
No --- that's your burden.
In other words you can't do it but don't feel bad neither can any of the so-called flood geologists of places like AiG and ICR.


Those animals died due to the universal effect of sin. Something scientists conveniently don't talk about.
Scientists don't talk about it because it is a myth.

Assuming, of course, you meant the dinosaurs. A lot of them probably died out in what scientists like to call the "Ice Age".
As has been pointed out the dinosaurs died out at the end of the Cretaceous long before any of the many ice ages of the last few million years.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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AV1611VET said:
No --- yes --- yes; 2 outta 3 ain't bad, eh?

Stop playing semantics. You do not believe in an old earth or universe. You believe in a 6,000 year old universe and earth, but that it has the appearance of great ages. That is the Omphalos argument and it doesn't wash.
 
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