The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

[GenemZ]

Those are good questions.
As you know, God requires us to forgive others if we want to be forgiven.
(Matthew 6:15 and Luke 6:37)

Forgive sins. Yes. We as men are in no position to forgive evil.


Turn and speak to the air..... And, say.

"Satan, I forgive you!" "Satan, I love you."

If you have the power to make that stick? You just forgave evil. We have not been given that power.

 

[FineLinen]

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

I will tell you again.

Perfect God math!

The same polus made sinners = the polus made righteous.

With "all the more" added to the Saviour of all mankind.

 

[GenemZ]

Perfect God math!

The same polus made sinners = the polus made righteous.

With "all the more" added to the Saviour of all mankind.

The Lord would flunk your math test.... for sure. (I'll play your game for now)

But? What about division? Can you pass that test?

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to everlasting punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Mat 25:40-46​

Hurry up. My train is due in the next few minutes.

In the mean while.

A little Greek tense amplification is due...

25:41 "Then He will say to those on His left (condemnation of the goats/ unbelievers), 'Depart from Me, you accursed (cursed in the past with
the result that you remain cursed forever), into the everlasting fire
that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!"

​

....Nothing beats some understanding of good solid Greek tenses to trip up some gaslighting.

If you really want to learn and study about Greek tenses in the Bible?
R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

Had enough. Train is boarding.

 

[FineLinen]

But? What about division? Can you pass that test?

The math of the Father of all fathers is incredible! He can feed 5000 men + women and children with a few fish & bread and still have 12 baskets full at the completion (that nothing be lost).

Welcome to Divine substaction!

However...

He cares for bread and fish remnants more than the broken sinners for whom He is the Mercy-Seat?

 

[Saint Steven]

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

I will tell you again. No one will be judged for their sins. No unbeliever going to the Lake of Fire will be having their sins mentioned. Why? Jesus bore the penalty for their sins, and what had been judged and paid for can not be judged twice. The law of double jeopardy!

When it comes to unbelievers being sinners? All have received their justification (concerning sin). All.

Its not sin that sends the unbeliever too the Lake of Fire. Evil does that.

Jesus could not pay for man's evil, only his sins. For Jesus to pay for evil he would have had to reject himself.

How is it that "evil" is not sin?

 

[FineLinen]

The math of Theos =

The math of the Father of all fathers is incredible! He can feed 5000 men + women and children with a few fish & bread and still have 12 baskets full at the completion (that nothing be lost).

Welcome to Divine substaction!

However...

He cares for bread and fish remnants more than the broken sinners for whom He is the Mercy-Seat?

The Divine equation =

Adam1 = the many "made sinners".

Last Adam = the identical many "made righteous."

Many = many,

All = all

Polus = polus.

 

[Der Alte]

...

The math of Theos =

The math of the Father of all fathers is incredible! He can feed 5000 men + women and children with a few fish & bread and still have 12 baskets full at the completion (that nothing be lost).
Welcome to Divine substaction!
However...
He cares for bread and fish remnants more than the broken sinners for whom He is the Mercy-Seat?
The Divine equation =
Adam1 = the many "made sinners".
Last Adam = the identical many "made righteous."
Many = many,
All = all
Polus = polus.

Is this the best argument that UR-ites can come up with. Jesus didn't gather up the left over bread and fish because he was concerned about bread and fish. Jesus was beaten, crucified, dead and buried because He "So loved the world, i.e. people, that He gave His life that whosoever believed in Him would not perish but have EVERLASTING life." Jesus commanded that the leftovers be gathered so the people would have food enough for their journey home.

 

[Der Alte]

***

<Genez>>>The Lord would flunk your math test.... for sure. (I'll play your game for now)
But? What about division? Can you pass that test?

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to everlasting punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Mat 25:40-46​

Hurry up. My train is due in the next few minutes.
In the mean while.
A little Greek tense amplification is due...

25:41 "Then He will say to those on His left (condemnation of the goats/ unbelievers), 'Depart from Me, you accursed (cursed in the past with
the result that you remain cursed forever), into the everlasting fire
that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!"​

....Nothing beats some understanding of good solid Greek tenses to trip up some gaslighting.
If you really want to learn and study about Greek tenses in the Bible?
R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home
Had enough. Train is boarding. <<<Genez>

***

Hope you don't mind may I add some additional scriptural support for your post.
The UR-ites cherry pick biased translations which appear to support their agenda.
…..Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios,”“kolasis?” etc.
…..In the EOB, footnote pg. 180

Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).​

= = = = = = = = = =

The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.​

= = = = = = = = = =

KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

Paul, the same writer, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, in the same writing, below. Thus conclusively showing that "aionios" means eternal, everlasting.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity. ​

= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. Whoever has doubts/questions about the EOB version I suggest they read the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.

 

[Major1]

That's not what the scripture in question means.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Now then Steve...……….please post the Scriptures which say,
"Those in the Lake of Fire who bowed their knee and confessed that Jesus is Lord have BENN REMOVED FROM THE LOF and have been given a mansion in heaven"

 

[GenemZ]

He cares for bread and fish remnants more than the broken sinners for whom He is the Mercy-Seat?

Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful." James 2:12-13a


You play games. You cherry pick words to make your point.

Then God picks you off with the Truth.

 

[Major1]

The Lord would flunk your math test.... for sure. (I'll play your game for now)

But? What about division? Can you pass that test?

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to everlasting punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Mat 25:40-46​

Hurry up. My train is due in the next few minutes.

In the mean while.

A little Greek tense amplification is due...

25:41 "Then He will say to those on His left (condemnation of the goats/ unbelievers), 'Depart from Me, you accursed (cursed in the past with
the result that you remain cursed forever), into the everlasting fire
that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!"

​

....Nothing beats some understanding of good solid Greek tenses to trip up some gaslighting.

If you really want to learn and study about Greek tenses in the Bible?
R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

Had enough. Train is boarding.

I think that it would be prudent to remind you that our friend Finelinnen has already said very clearly...……..

Actually there really is no need for debate as your BEST friend has already said and I agreed with him that...……….
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

 

[GenemZ]

Now then Steve...……….please post the Scriptures which say,
"Those in the Lake of Fire who bowed their knee and confessed that Jesus is Lord have BENN REMOVED FROM THE LOF and have been given a mansion in heaven"

Its amazing.... The Hitler youth were willing to die for Hitler even after Hitler was losing.

Some love evil. They will defend evil.

Al Capone had his lawyers.

Some use the Bible to gaslight believers who truly love God's Word. They fail to find the true light.


Psychologists use the term “gaslighting” to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality,
memory or perceptions. And it's always a serious problem, according to psychologists.

That is what false teachers do!

 

[Major1]

Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful." James 2:12-13a


You play games. You cherry pick words to make your point.

Then God picks you off with the Truth.

You are so very correct. I can not help but wonder if there is a Seminary or University that teaches how to do what these people are so good at doing?

 

[Major1]

Its amazing.... The Hitler youth were willing to die for Hitler even after Hitler was losing.

Some love evil. They will defend evil.

Al Capone had his lawyers.

Some use the Bible to gaslight believers who truly love God's Word. They fail to find the true light.


Psychologists use the term “gaslighting” to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality,
memory or perceptions. And it's always a serious problem, according to psychologists.

That is what false teachers do!

Correctly said!

Another term might be "brain washing".

Have you tried to witness to a seasoned JW?

Then on top of all these debate, after all these words, it has already been stated by Finelinnen that...…...

"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

I am at a loss for words to understand after such an admission that he is still debating something which he has already admitted DOES NOT EXIST.

 

[FineLinen]

Then on top of all these debate, after all these words, it has already been stated by Finelinnen that...…...

"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

Big Guy: Again for the third time you know that is NOT what was posted in " and with !!!!

"But the fearful and unbelieving shall have their part in the Lake that burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death." -Rev. 21:8

It will be necessary to consider the entire context of this verse, if we desire to understand its message. It opens with the vision of the great white throne, (Rev. 20:14), and we find that after the judgment of that great day, so far from death and hell continuing, they are "cast into the lake of fire" - very unlike the fundamentalist popular view.

Then comes a declaration that God is to dwell with men - not with the saints - but with men, and that as a consequence, they shall be His people, and God shall be with them and be their God.

It is distinctly said, there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor any more pain. Is this not a denial of an endless hell rather than an affirmation of it - most assuredly, an emphatic denial of such a doctrine?

Then comes a voice from the throne with a glorious promise,

"Behold I make all things new," not some things.

Note:

This promise is remarkably emphasized, it opens with the word "Behold," to draw attention to it:

It closes with the command to write it, "for these words are true and faithful."

Was there no reason for this?

Is there not thus attention drawn to this as the central point of the whole vision, i.e., all things made new ?

 

[FineLinen]

Major: I will again state there is exactly one segment of our race that are not "hurt" by the 2nd death. They are overcomers!

Walk carefully in the truth, the individuals who most assuredly have their part are clearly enunciated.

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 21:8 - King James Version

 

[Der Alte]

...

Big Guy: Again for the third time you know that is NOT what was posted in " and with !!!!
"But the fearful and unbelieving shall have their part in the Lake that burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death." -Rev. 21:8
It will be necessary to consider the entire context of this verse, if we desire to understand its message. It opens with the vision of the great white throne, (Rev. 20:14), and we find that after the judgment of that great day, so far from death and hell continuing, they are "cast into the lake of fire" - very unlike the fundamentalist popular view.
Then comes a declaration that God is to dwell with men - not with the saints - but with men, and that as a consequence, they shall be His people, and God shall be with them and be their God.
It is distinctly said, there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor any more pain. Is this not a denial of an endless hell rather than an affirmation of it - most assuredly, an emphatic denial of such a doctrine?
Then comes a voice from the throne with a glorious promise,
"Behold I make all things new," not some things.
Note:
This promise is remarkably emphasized, it opens with the word "Behold," to draw attention to it:
It closes with the command to write it, "for these words are true and faithful."
Was there no reason for this?
Is there not thus attention drawn to this as the central point of the whole vision, i.e., all things made new ?

Boys and girls although this post claims to the show "the entire context of this verse," please observe this is a text book example of how UR-ites quote bits and pieces of of scripture out-of-context trying to support their false narrative.

Revelation 21:4-8
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Although God said “no more death,” vs. 4 and “I make all things new,” vs. 5, in vs. 8, eight groups of sinful people are cast into the lake of fire, which despite “no more death,” vs 4, is still “the second death.”
…..Note in vs. 7 God specifies conditions i.e. “He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
God does not say everyone shall inherit all things etc. The converse of that stated condition is, “He that does NOT overcome shall NOT inherit all things; and I will NOT be his God, and he shall NOT be my son.”
Salvation is not mentioned after this in Rev.

Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:15
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

Two more verses- The End

 

[GenemZ]

How is it that "evil" is not sin?

Sin originates from our flesh. Evil originated from a perfect being.

We are born sinners and many come to recognize sin as bad.

Evil on the other hand is thinking that justifies sinning. Evil justifies wrong doing.

Sin starts with an impulse that transforms into lust. Evil is that lust proving that what lust desires if good and to be approved of.

God forgives sin the moment we recognize our sin and admit it is sin. (1 John 1:9)

Evil resists what 1 John 1:9 requires. It rationalizes the need for confession away.

Sin is taken care of by confession.

To escape the consequences of evil, one must first accept truth and repent of the lie that evil wishes to propagate.

Evil originated with Satan. Lucifer desired to replace God with his own system. Satan had no sin nature at the time he conceived of evil. Lucifer created lies as his means to glorify and justify his desire for denying wrongdoing towards God.

Adam was tempted by evil from the outside which resulted in Adam becoming a sinner.
Satan had no outside evil to tempt him. Satan invented the lie while yet in a sinless state.

Sin requires confession. "Admitting wrongdoing."
Evil requires learning truth and then turning to repentance. "Transformation of how one thinks and changing."

You can confess sin, but you still remain a sinner able to sin again.
Repentance transforms one's thinking by accepting truth which results in a new expression of your person.

 

[GenemZ]

I think that it would be prudent to remind you that our friend Finelinnen has already said very clearly...……..

Actually there really is no need for debate as your BEST friend has already said and I agreed with him that...……….
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

Are you saying that he has been playing the devil's advocate?


Or, were you being facetious?

Sorry.. The Lake of Fire is closed due to the corona pandemic. Please do your own burning at home in your stove until told otherwise.

 

[GenemZ]

You are so very correct. I can not help but wonder if there is a Seminary or University that teaches how to do what these people are so good at doing?

When I lived up north I used to have contact with a professor who was teaching a course on exactly that. It was how to attack anyone according to their traditional core beliefs. Her daughter used to work where I helped manage, so I would have a some conversations when she was there. I asked her if I could learn a bit of what she teaches. She did not want to do so...

That was around 1992. Apparently, it has been part of a plan if it was accepted in academia. I might add. That professor's husband was murdered before I met her. I wonder now if he knew too much. If I remember correctly, he too was a professor.

There are people who adore Satan. It says that during the Tribulation many will adore and worship him.

Antifa types will be shouting "Hellelujah!"

...