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The Gap and The Sumer Creation Myth

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Davy, May 1, 2021.

  1. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Who provided that light of the first day?????

    There was no sun yet made to bear light. No sun until day four.

    That is why we need to better understand the prehistoric world. For Lucifer was a light bearing angel who used to herald in the morning. Yet? We don't have that happening in this creation.

    God wants us to discover and understand treasures that He has hidden in the Word. Believers who demand that everything be kept over simplified will never set foot on the Promised land in this lifetime.



    For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for
    those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, that
    their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach
    all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of
    God's mystery, which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures
    of wisdom and knowledge."
    Col 2:1-3​

    Hidden treasures of wisdom and knowledge in Christ?


    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
    and the Word was God."
    Jn 1:1​


    Winners and losers... not everyone who won, wins. Not all who are saved will be saved from themselves if their pride is their stronghold. Fight the good fight. He who shrinks back He will not be pleased with. But.., don't choose some false doctrinal way to make yourself feel like you are fighting the good fight while defending, when you are only digging yourself deeper into a ditch.

    God will have His way. Those whom He knows have a heart after His own will find themselves being "owned" righteously.

    It applies to me as well. For I might be deceived. For that is how the deceived perceive those who see through the deception they deny having.

    God will sort it out. Righteously.
     
  2. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    If Map Quest used King James English? We would have a lot of lost drivers on the roads.
     
  3. JulieB67

    JulieB67 Active Member

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    So you don't believe that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago? And why are animal fossils that you would expect to see in Africa found in the US?? Animals like rhinos, camels, etc. Sometimes we have to apply common sense here as well. Something that I would believe God expects us to do. Yes, we have our Bible, but nature itself declares the glory of God. There's a reason that certain places look like they once connected when you look at maps or globes. God said all the hills moved lightly and I believe him.

    Jeremiah 4:24 "I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

    He shook the earth to the point where all the hills moved. That's why some things look like they used to fit together. And once you realize that they did once fit together, you realize that it was paradise at one time. So much so that you know why these animals of different climates are found here in the US, etc.

    You keep talking about straining the scripture but I don't believe one has to. It all makes sense. Especially when one has the tools to take things back to the original languages for a deeper study. Yes, the Word has been preserved, but we also have tools because many many words get lost in translation...and not only for this topic.

    God specifically says he did not create the earth in tohuw. That's the word no matter what we might think the English translation tells us. Tohuw means to lie waste, a desolation, a worthless thing, empty place, without form, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness. So he basically says he did not create it in a state of desolation.

    And since we know he did not create it that way, we can know for certain that it "became" tohuw. I don't think that's hard to believe at all.
    You're basically saying God created a desolute wasteland, a worthless thing (something he says he didn't do) and then started from there. And to me, that takes a lot more imagination than what I see in scriptures when taken as a whole and applied to the very real world we live in. There's a reason the word tohuw was used -it was used to show the complete desolation/wasteland that the earth had become. No offense and I know you'll not agree and that's fine. But just wanted to say I don't believe that we have to strain scriptures to believe that the earth is quite old and that there was an age before this one.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  4. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Dinosaurs did not have to exist for millions of years. Millions of years is what evolutionists are forced to assume because of the trap they have imposed upon themselves concerning how evolution allegedly works.

    Most likely, God could have created different dispensations for prehistoric life within maybe 90 thousand years. Maybe, even 50 thousand. It does not matter. For it did not take God millions of years to produce our present world we live in. It only took Him six days.....

    There are a number of eras (periods) for the prehistoric creations. Each one may have only been created by God to last a thousand years. Wipe out the old and replace with a new... replaced within six days each.

    Evolutionists must force the data to line up with their theory which would probably require trillions of years if it were ever possible for matter to form into living entities... Its "fake news." Satan is the ruler of this world. He has been gaslighting mankind from the Garden to this day.
     
  5. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    A cowardly soldier will makes excuses to get out of battle. In contrast to the coward, a scared soldier knowing God's grace will be able to think objectively while being scared. That is working out our salvation in fear and trembling.

    Without God's grace working in us all would be mentally cowards in the face of the spiritual warfare we are in. For we in ourselves could not have the power to face God's enemies. Grace and truth is required by God to make His enemies into His Footstool by means of working through us. False doctrine destroys God's desire for us.

    Cowardly souls will choose to find ways to disqualify themselves for service, and may even resort to playing stupid even if necessary. They wanted not to grow up and to stay home with mommy and hide in their rooms of false understandings .... playing make believe games, in a world that God seeks and recruits both men and women to be on the front lines for truth and justice. All to be won by means of sound doctrine as their foundation.

    For only the Truth (not popular opinion) will make us free.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  6. JulieB67

    JulieB67 Active Member

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    I don't believe in evolution. The point I'm trying to make is that the dinosaurs were here long before this present age ever was.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    It has nothing to do with cowardice. It has to do with not wanting to go over the same points again that I have already gone over that refute the Gap Theory. I have already made my case. There is not much more to say on that point.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    God called forth the baby dinosaurs on board the Ark and they eventually died out to the post flood conditions. Any other dinosaurs not on the Ark were killed. The global flood had carried the fossils of all kinds of animals all over the world. There is no need for a millions of years story fed to us by secular scientists.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    As for Jeremiah 4:24: This is a future prophetic event after Christ's return, and not a past event.
     
  10. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    Not everything in scripture is meant to be obvious. Sometimes you have to dig for treasure. The riches that are hid in Christ are hid for a reason.

    Matt.13:13-15
    This is why I speak to them in parables:
    “Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
    14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
    "You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
    you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
    15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears,
    and they have closed their eyes.
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts
    and turn, and I would heal them."

    There is nothing less glorifying to Christ than believers who come to scripture with their eyes and ears closed. Yet it becomes necessary they continue as Paul declares:

    1Cor.11:19
    No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.


    It is easy to declare "I only use scripture" but there is a world of difference between those who use it to try and prove others wrong and those who seek to know the truth. The Bereans were called "of more noble character" not simply because they searched the scriptures but because they sought to see if what Paul said was true.

    Acts 17:11
    Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


    We each must ask ourselves "how do I approach the scriptures?" Especially in light of comments we have never heard before or hearing things contrary to what we may have been taught originally.

    grace and peace.
     
  11. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    According to the book of Job though, maybe not.

    Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made(`asah) with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
    16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
    17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
    18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
    19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
    20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
    21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
    22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
    23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
    24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

    Maybe this is describing a dinosaur like creature or maybe it isn't. But if it is, verse 15 makes it clear that creatures like this weren't made millions of years before man, but were made together with man during the 6 days of creation----Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee.

    Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    25 And God made(`asah) the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


    Why could dinosaurs not be something God made in Genesis 1:25?


    If there was first a creation then a recreation, and that per the latter it involved 6 days then God resting on the 7th day, how many days did the initial creation involve, and when did God rest after creating everything the first time around? Are we to believe He rested twice? Are we to believe He never rested after the initial creation thousands or millions of years earlier, but only rested after the recreation thousands or millions of years later?
     
  12. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    If your tactic is to try and intimidate others in order for them to see it your way and abandon their position for yours, I don't think it's working. Some of us are not easily intimidated.
     
  13. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    Just because God rested on the seventh day doesn't mean He stopped working. He rested from all that He made (asah) not from things He created (bara). He only created (bara) two souls on day 6, Adam and Eve. How do you think the rest of us got here?

    Even if God did rest after the initial creation, what is it to you? Who are you to demand knowing all of the Lord's comings and goings?

    There is much that can be said about the Lord's seventh day rest but this is not the thread.
     
  14. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    I present what I have come to understand from experts God has given His church who study in the original languages.

    If you find that intimidating? I do not know what to tell you. I know that for me it was not intimidating, but liberating for my soul.

    There is a principle to be found in the following ...


    "Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you;
    rebuke the wise and they will love you."
    Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still;
    teach the righteous and they will add to their
    learning.
    Prov 9:8b-9

    Since God tells us that our ways are not his ways. And, His thoughts are not our thoughts? (Isaiah 55:8-9) If one is always readily accepting what the Word teaches, never needing correction? Something is not right. Those who learn to be made to be wise by grace, know this. And, will appreciate it when they are shown that what they assumed was correct - without a doubt - get shocked into learning they were dead wrong. I have felt helpless and stupid at times (humiliated). But was soon grateful to be shown what God has to say on a matter. His ways are not our ways. Many assume that God thinks just like they do, and bond with others who agree like they do.

    Truth exposed angers the pride of some, and humbles the souls of those who will put the Lord ahead of their own sense of worth in being able to think for themselves.

    We should think for ourselves. But, before we can as mature Christians? First God wants to give us what is needed to think with! Its needed, since His thoughts are now how we see things.

    If anyone can not handle being made to feel dumb? They will never be able to grow in grace and Truth. Only the basics for them, and it stops there.

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

    We will at times find ourselves fearing because we will find ourselves in a state of not being able to know what is truth, after having been confident and sure that we knew that God feels the same way as we do on a matter. We need to become transformed into His likeness in our minds. Its not the other way around as many churches form in agreement to do.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  15. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

    I take it that gap theorists take none of this to involve the 6 days of creation, but to only involve Genesis 1:1 and the alleged gap? Would not that be correct, logically speaking, based on applying this verse like such, assuming a gap?


    For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens---In the beginning God created the heaven(Genesis 1:1)

    God himself that formed the earth and made it

    he created it---In the beginning God created the earth(Genesis 1:1)----not in vain----he formed it to be inhabited---for the luciferian world before the 6 days of recreation.

    Rather than this instead---


    For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens---In the beginning God created the heaven(Genesis 1:1)

    God himself that formed the earth and made it---during the 6 days of creation

    he created it---In the beginning God created the earth(Genesis 1:1)----not in vain----he formed it to be inhabited---during the 6 days of creation

    Any intellectually honest person should be able to at least admit, which doesn't mean one has to fully agree, that the latter makes far better sense of the texts involved than the former does. If gap theorists believe in an inhabited planet prior to creation day 1, how can they logically not apply this part to that period of time----he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited for the gap prior to creation day 1 since the gap would obviously come first(Isaiah 45:18)?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  16. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should have asked what we thought of the verse rather than trying to tell us what we think it means then admonishing us for not believing as you do.
     
  17. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    The real question that needs to be asked of the Isaiah passage:

    Is.45:18 ... he created (bara) it not in vain (tohuw) ...

    Gen.1:1 In the beginning God created (bara) the heavens and the earth.

    If God did not create the earth tohuw in the beginning why do we find it that way in verse 2?

    Once you understand that "in vain" (tohuw) does not mean without purpose but means chaotic, then you begin to see something happened, something very, very destructive.
     
  18. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    That does not matter. For, if God created the earth not in vain? In Genesis 1:2 we should not find it in that state if that was its original state.. as the new earth only. Isaiah is speaking of how the earth was originally created "in the beginning." At a time when angels were the ones having dominion over what we now call the prehistoric animal kingdom.

    To accept Genesis 1:2 as being how God created the earth? Would be like the Lord molding and forming (jatsar) the body for Adam looking like a Picasso painting.


    [​IMG]
     
  19. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    What exactly does vain mean to you in that verse, meaning Isaiah 45:18? That same Hebrew word is also used in the next verse and is also translated as vain. Why would it mean one thing in a previous verse and something entirely different in the next verse? Let's look at the next verse for a moment.


    Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.


    What do you take vain to mean in this verse? I would think the sense it is meaning here, is the same sense that should be applied to it in the previous verse.

    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

    One can't argue that a different Hebrew word for vain was used in verse 19. They are both tohuw.


    Verse 18 tells us why He didn't create it in vain. And that is because He formed it to be inhabited. I would think something is created first then formed after it's been created.

    Take Genesis 2:19, for instance.

    Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    In order for God to form something out of the ground, He first had to create something to form it from, in this case, He created the earth, and out of that creation He formed animals out of the ground on the earth He had created. IOW, He didn't just create everything out of thin air, some of it He literally formed it with His own hands, where the following passage also proves this.


    Psalms 95:5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.

    This says His hands formed the dry land.The question is, when did He do it? How many different times did He have to do it? If the earth was inhabited before creation day one, this means He would have had to have formed the dry land prior to the alleged gap, otherwise that would mean this alleged habitation on earth prior to creation day one would have no surface of the earth to dwell on if there was no dry land at the time. That sounds pretty silly to think that there could be those inhabiting the earth that has not yet had dry land formed on it. That makes zero sense.

    Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
    10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.


    This obviously isn't meaning during or prior to the alleged gap, that assuming there actually is a gap. These verses speak of the very same things Psalms 95:5 speaks of, seas and dry land. Shouldn't that mean Genesis 1:9-10 tells us when Psalms 95:5 is meaning? We are then back to what I initially asked, how many different times did He have to do it, form the dry land? More than one time, or only one time?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  20. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    I reckon I look like that sometimes when I wake up. ;)
     
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