The Gap and The Sumer Creation Myth

[GenemZ]

That's too much speculation for me. FACT: the eth ha aadam created in Genesis 1 (meaning the man Adam), is the eth ha aadam of the Genesis 2:7 verse. The 'aadam' by itself in Genesis 1 points to 'mankind' in general.

That suggests God also created the races of mankind on His 6th day, but did not place them in His Garden. Only the man Adam (eth ha aadam) did God place in His Garden. Those outside His Garden represent those like in the "land of Nod" where Cain went to.

In Genesis 2 God "rested" from bara.... There was no more creating something out from nothing [bara] in Genesis 2. It says so. No more creating [bara]. Something was created by God in Genesis 1:27. Something was breathed into the nostrils of the lifeless body. That was the soul of Adam which was created in Genesis 1:27.

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so
on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the
seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the
work of creating [bara] that he had done (in Genesis 1). Genesis 2:1-3​

In Genesis 2 the body was provided for the souls (male and female) that were already created in God's image. That body was not "created out from nothing." For God had rested from all such creating He had done in Genesis 1. We need to differentiate.

In Christ ......

 

[BeyondET]

In Genesis 2 God "rested" from bara.... There was no more creating something out from nothing [bara] in Genesis 2. It says so. No more creating [bara]. Something was created by God in Genesis 1:27. Something was breathed into the nostrils of the lifeless body. That was the soul of Adam which was created in Genesis 1:27.

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so
on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the
seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the
work of creating [bara] that he had done (in Genesis 1). Genesis 2:1-3​

In Genesis 2 the body was provided for the souls (male and female) that were already created in God's image. That body was not "created out from nothing." For God had rested from all such creating He had done in Genesis 1. We need to differentiate.

In Christ ......

Few things after divided waters and let there be a expanse the crossing red sea guess can viewed as symbolically to a past event

 

[GenemZ]

Few things after divided waters and let there be a expanse the crossing red sea guess can viewed as symbolically to a past event

Could you please add a little bit more to that? It does not yet seem to be a complete thought. Why did you say that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's kind of what modern science believes, i.e., that all life sprang from the protozoa organism in water. At least that's what my college biology text taught. They are pointing to men's theory of evolution with that idea, which is why I do not believe that.

Why would I care what Modern Science believes? I don't believe life sprang out of water. I believe the written record that the water was already there and God spoke the rest of things in the universe into existence. God created the water at a prior time not shown to us in Scripture. There is no need to distance ourselves from the truth of what the Bible says just because of what Modern Science believes. God created the waters and God spoke the rest of what we seen in Genesis 1 into existence. I don't think Modern Science agrees with that. So I am not sure why you would bring this point up because it is not in any way related.

At Genesis 1:1 I believe God spoke, like Apostle Peter said, and the universe with all its qualities suddenly came into existence. The KJV translation of Genesis 1:2 actually follows that idea of science's theories, because they translated tohuw va bohuw to mean a vacuum state of nothingness, when that is not the condition that verse is pointing to.

I don't think anyone is really a biblical Hebrew expert today because we did not grow up speaking or writing biblical Hebrew. It's a dead language and we can only make educated guesses at best. I believe what the Bible says in the KJB.

That interpretation of Genesis 1:1 as a summary is tradition. It is natural to want to see it that way before one has done in-depth Bible study in the whole Bible. So you cannot claim it is unique to that idea, simply because that one verse does not stand on its own. We have to keep reading in Genesis 1, and even in the whole Bible before realizing it's pointing to a previous original 'perfect' creation of the earth which because of Satan's rebellion, God brought a destruction upon the earth to end that time, and bring this 2nd world earth age.

Again, Genesis 1:1 is a summary of the details we read in Genesis 1, and this fits the pattern we see with the creation day 6 with the details of that day given to us in Genesis 2. It's a pattern. Believing in an imaginary Gap Theory breaks that pattern.

That is actually what the Jeremiah 4:23-28 verses are about.

It's talking about Jerusalem and Judah and the future. But if it was talking about some kind of Gap, relating to their situation, you would think it would have been a little more clearer by saying something like.... “And your land will be destroyed like it was at the judgment before the beginning”. But no words like this are even mentioned like that.

​

Not really, because in the Hebrew the word aadam appears in one place in Genesis 1 with the Hebrew article and particle, and in another part of that chapter without, as just aadam by itself. That was not translated by the KJV translators, so one reading the KJV (or other translations) won't know that. That is pointing to God having created all the races of mankind and... the man Adam He formed in His Garden, both on the 6th day. And in Genesis 2:7 it's about the man Adam (eth ha aadam), and not mankind in general.

I don't think God expects us to know an ancient language in order to understand His Word. If He does, please make your case with Scripture. I believe God is perfectly capable of translating languages just fine. We see this at Pentecost.

You should stop with the false assumption that these things are not in the Biblical text. Bullinger explains these things in the text here:

The Synonymous Words Used for Man. - Appendix to the Companion Bible

This reads like some kind of technical journal that really just sounds like his opinion or translation. I prefer it when folks talk to me in a normal language.

Once again, you throw out attempts to affirm your view without actually backing it up. One can try and affirm something, in wanting it to be true, like a statement as 'if'... it were fact. But that's not proof.

I have given sufficient points in post #123.

There is a Gap of unknown time between God's first creation of the universe at verse 1, and His destruction of that time with the earth laying in a waste state at verse 2.

No there isn't.

The proof is in the His description of what He did to the old earth per Jeremiah 4:23-28,

No. Nothing about a Gap is clearly mentioned in Jeremiah 4:23-28. I would need words like, “And so before Adam existed, the world was judged,...” But it doesn't say anything like that. You are making leaps of assumptions off of a passage that sounds like a future prophetic event.

and also by Peter in 2 Peter 3,

2 Peter 3:5-7 is talking briefly about the beginning of the 6 day creation and then the global flood.
2 Peter 2:5-6 talks about the global flood and how it and Sodom are examples to all those who shall live ungodly afterwards.

Nah, the meaning of 'tohuw' there is specific, because God gave a contrast to its meaning in that Isaiah 45:18 verse. Obviously you missed it in favor of the view of men's traditions.

Isa 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain (tohuw), He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
KJV

No. I think you want to just see a Gap Theory where there is none clearly mentioned. Again, Isaiah 45:18 does not say, “I created a world before Adam.” It says that God created the Earth not to be in vain like the moon, or saturn, but He formed it to be inhabited with people. Again, you are seeing things in the text and making wild assumptions off a few words that could easily be referring to something else. Nothing is clearly stated in Isaiah 45:18 about a Gap World. Nothing. Zip. Nadda. It's just not there. I need more than just some assumptions off a few words.

What's the opposite of the earth having been formed to be inhabited, i.e., to be lived upon? The opposite state is the earth in an uninhabitable condition, a state of ruin. That is the state of 'vanity'

You are making way too big of a leap of assumption off of the word “vanity” when it could easily be referring to how God did not create the Earth to be uninhabited like other planets. God did not create the Earth to be a wasteland in vain with no human life on it. That's how I read it. There is nothing here about a world clearly being destroyed prior. We need more than taking a word here and there and twisting it to make an entire story out of it.

that Apostle Paul referred to in Romans 8 that God placed His creation in, bondage to corruption Paul said...

Rom 8:20-21
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
KJV

The word "creature" means 'the creation'. The Greek for "vanity" is pointing to the same idea as

Again, the context talks about the “creature,” (verse 21) and then it continues to still talk about the creature using the word “creation.”
It refers to the creation (creature mentioned before in the other verse) as... “they” in verse 23.

“And not only they, but ourselves also,...” (Romans 8:23).

So creation is referred to as “they” which means it is talking about the animals still. The animals now. Nothing about any kind of previous world being destroyed here. That's just the imaginations of Gap Theorists working over time.

Sorry, no offense, brother. But I think we should really let this go.
I don't think we are going to agree on this one.
I see the Gap Theory as adding to God's Word.
It's clearly not spoken about openly in the English (KJB).
Words can easily be read in another way in not in the way that you want them to be read. That's the problem with the Gap Theory ~ IMO.

 

[GenemZ]

Why would I care what Modern Science believes?

Because sometimes modern science snaps doctrinally apathetic Christians in their collective butt to make them rethink what they got wrong the first time. What they have been glorying in was in error.

God sends those secular scientists around to wake up sleeping Christians who should be plowing the fields again for a better yield.

The scientists may be wrong in their hypothesis concerning what data they discover. But, what they found also proves to themselves that Christianity is nonsense, because what certain Christians accept with a religious fervor has been wrong. Too many Christians are being a false witness in that case. Religious snobbery is no defense that glorifies the Lord.

Modern science can be a good thing because God intends it for our growth and maturity. Not allowing us to become like hunkered down hillbillys fighting off rival clans. Modern science having its errors in hypothesis is designed to force us out of the comfort boxes we erected for ourselves making us lazy and not growing... wasting time not being bothered with reality that we could not naturally cope with. God's grace and knowledge is needed to make us not only cope. But, to overcome!

Only those who overcome will reign with Him. Overcoming requires transformational thinking beyond who we naturally were. Christians failing to overcome evil is caused by a spirit of religiosity that hardens them like thick baked mud. Dogmatic, traditional, commonly accepted error is all that modern science is offered in rebuttal, making them feel totally justified in rejecting Jesus Christ... Not a good witness.

A good witness does not mean they would repent and believe.. A good witness would leave them feeling not justified in their rejection. Jesus did not win everyone to Himself. Did He? He left those rejecting Him to be without excuse.

Religious myths turned into an imposition on reality will leave those rejecting Him feeling totally justified. The "unmoved" Christians involved will not have glorified Christ with their stubbornest and closed mindedness which they proudly see as being "conviction."

The Word of God does not lie. Men do. All the time.

 

[GenemZ]

Sorry, no offense, brother. But I think we should really let this go.
I don't think we are going to agree on this one.
I see the Gap Theory as adding to God's Word.
It's clearly not spoken about openly in the English (KJB).
Words can easily be read in another way in not in the way that you want them to be read. That's the problem with the Gap Theory ~ IMO.

That is a weak argument based upon lazy thinking. The Hebrew contains riches that English translations can not render without much commentary being offered. That requires STUDY and CONCENTRATION. Certain Christians want to pop their doctrine into a toaster and have "instant breakfast."

Here is what you fail to see as reality....

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and
more in knowledge and depth of insight." Phlpns 1:9​

The KJV? When it comes to understanding what God's Word 'saith?' To our modern minds, what it conveys 'stinketh' and can not be grasped properly. But you deny there is any such thing.

Its become a hiding place for those hating to expose themselves to their own shameful ignorance that God wants to weed out and replant with beautiful living fruit bearing. Instead, some choose protect their egos by demanding we all walk in a field filled with things that can be manipulated to mean what one wishes them to.

Have a nice Day.

 

[Davy]

Why would I care what Modern Science believes? I don't believe life sprang out of water. I believe the written record that the water was already there and God spoke the rest of things in the universe into existence. God created the water at a prior time not shown to us in Scripture. There is no need to distance ourselves from the truth of what the Bible says just because of what Modern Science believes. God created the waters and God spoke the rest of what we seen in Genesis 1 into existence. I don't think Modern Science agrees with that. So I am not sure why you would bring this point up because it is not in any way related.

If the waters were already created, then it means the earth was already created then too. The "face of the deep" is pointing to subterranean waters, and verses 6 through 9 are showing those waters upon an existing earth. In verse 9 a portion of those waters of verse 2 are being moved around upon an existing earth, and it causes the land underneath to appear (again I might say). None of those kind of events point to water standing in a vacuum of space, which instead is what you are suggesting with your belief, which also is what modern science suggests with all life beginning out of water.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If the waters were already created, then it means the earth was already created then too. The "face of the deep" is pointing to subterranean waters, and verses 6 through 9 are showing those waters upon an existing earth. In verse 9 a portion of those waters of verse 2 are being moved around upon an existing earth, and it causes the land underneath to appear (again I might say). None of those kind of events point to water standing in a vacuum of space, which instead is what you are suggesting with your belief, which also is what modern science suggests with all life beginning out of water.

I see, the phrase, “the Earth was without form and void” as possibly either:

(a) Nothing there yet but waters and the face of the deep.
(b) Astroid like rocks deep beneath the waters (that is gravity free) taking up a giant section of the universe. In other words, it could possible be like a giant wall of water taking up one side of the universe with floating rocks on the other side of that wall of water.​

Again, these are only possibilities and I don't really know for sure.
I am not going to teach them as biblical fact as Gap Theorists teach their theory as fact. For we look through a glass darkly.

I am just not going to see a Gap World because there is no clear description of one in the Bible.

Read 1 Kings 13:11-29 about the man of God who disobeyed God's Word and followed the word of another. This is kind of how I see the Gap Theory. While there is no command of obedience given by believing the Gap Theory, it sets forth words that changes our mindset of how we read the Bible. It will mean we can start to create all kinds of theories in the Bible based off one word here and there and claim them as biblical fact (Which can lead to potentially obeying God's Word incorrectly in other things like God's commands). For a false hermeneutics can be destructive in my view.

The Gap Theory seems highly likely even as a possibility to me because God said that the creation was very good in Genesis 1:31. These does not make sense to call the creation to be very good if it was already stained with sin and death previously. Sin was said to come into this world via by Adam according to Romans 5:12. I don't believe an unbiased reader in good conscience can read Romans 8:19-22 as being in reference to the Gap Theory because it is clearly in reference to the animals of our current six day creation and not a previous one. Jesus refers to words used in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 as being in reference to “the beginning.” So again, this seems highly unlikely that there is another “beginning” or an “extended beginning” that existed in some prior world that was destroyed.

 

[GenemZ]

I am just not going to see a Gap World because there is no clear description of one in the Bible.

Yes there is! It has been God's modus operandi, and will be again!

For... This world we live in? It will be GONE over night. And, replaced by new World. Just like the prehistoric world disappeared. No one was thinking about it until centuries later science began making discoveries with fossils being put back together.

“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more." Isa 65:17-19​

A new world in which this world will not be known.
Our present world will have become a hidden prehistoric world.

You know this? You just have not made the correlation yet.

The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord."​

Imagine scientists in that future dispensation digging up the bones of our previous lions and wolves? When scientists see the teeth? Speculation could abound if the Lord was not on His Throne.

God creates worlds for teaching men and angels who are living within them. And, destroys worlds after the graduation is over.

For God to destroy a created world after it served His purpose is not a new thing. And, He will continue to do so with the second New Heavens and New Earth spoken of in Revelation - after the Millennium has served its purpose...

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear
with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and
everything done in it will be laid bare.​

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought
you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to
the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the
destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven
and a new earth, the home of righteousness." 2 Pet 3:10-13​

First creation (prehistoric) was destroyed by water. The last and final destruction will be by fire (nuclear fusion = the elements will melt).

For God its all routine. For you? Its still confusing you.

The creation we live in is a classroom for us from God!

grace and peace ........

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes there is! It has been God's modus operandi, and will be again!

For... This world we live in? It will be GONE over night. And, replaced by new World. Just like the prehistoric world disappeared. No one was thinking about it until centuries later science began making discoveries with fossils being put back together.

“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more." Isa 65:17-19​

A new world in which this world will not be known.
Our present world will have become a hidden prehistoric world.

You know this? You just have not made the correlation yet.

The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord."​

Imagine scientists in that future dispensation digging up the bones of our previous lions and wolves? When scientists see the teeth? Speculation could abound if the Lord was not on His Throne.

God creates worlds for teaching men and angels who are living within them. And, destroys worlds after the graduation is over.

For God to destroy a created world after it served His purpose is not a new thing. And, He will continue to do so with the second New Heavens and New Earth spoken of in Revelation - after the Millennium has served its purpose...

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear
with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and
everything done in it will be laid bare.​

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought
you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to
the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the
destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven
and a new earth, the home of righteousness." 2 Pet 3:10-13​

First creation (prehistoric) was destroyed by water. The last and final destruction will be by fire (nuclear fusion = the elements will melt).

For God its all routine. For you? Its still confusing you.

The creation we live in is a classroom for us from God!

grace and peace ........

I am not in disagreement that this Earth will end (or be purified with fire), and it will give way to the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I also believe that there will be a New Heavens, and a New Earth after the Millennium, as well. But I just don't see a previous Earth existing before the six day creation mentioned in Scripture. It's just not there. Only a phrase or a word here and there is interpreted with lots of imagination to make the Gap World Theory so. The Bible does not clearly teach in the King James Bible a Gap Theory. So I am not going to believe it. Nowhere does God's Word require me to learn a more ancient language in order to understand His Word.

 

[GenemZ]

I am not in disagreement that this Earth will end (or be purified with fire), and it will give way to the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I also believe that there will be a New Heavens, and a New Earth after the Millennium, as well. But I just don't see a previous Earth existing before the six day creation mentioned in Scripture. It's just not there. Only a phrase or a word here and there is interpreted with lots of imagination to make the Gap World Theory so. The Bible does not clearly teach in the King James Bible a Gap Theory. So I am not going to believe it. Nowhere does God's Word require me to learn a more ancient language in order to understand His Word.

You do not know the Hebrew... or REFUSE to know the Hebrew. And, the fact that Jeremiah used Genesis 1:2 to threaten the horribly degenerate Jews with?

What can I tell you? I can't make you think. The Holy Spirit made me and others have our eyes opened. Why not you? I don't know. Can't help you. Nor do I wish to waste time. For there is a point of no return.. God only knows why you can not see it. Toho wabohu means an utter destruction and chaotic mess. Jeremiah used Genesis 1:2 in in God's anger flowing through him.

Apparently? You are being denied.... That usually means? He is being denied by you in some way. That's between you and Him.

Just because you can not see something, does not mean its not true.

And, if I can not prove it to you? It does not cease being truth....

You have been shown by a link that ancient scholars in their study concluded that according to the Hebrew, that this planet is not the only way its ever been. Jews used to have an understanding that there had been "other worlds" according to the Hebrew. But, was not until science unburied and assembled the fossils did anyone have a way to know what the Hebrew was pointing to all along.

But? You can't see it. That settles it?

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in
my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work
out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philpns 2:12

​

grace and peace .......

 

[GenemZ]

I am not in disagreement that this Earth will end (or be purified with fire), and it will give way to the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I also believe that there will be a New Heavens, and a New Earth after the Millennium, as well. But I just don't see a previous Earth existing before the six day creation mentioned in Scripture. It's just not there. Only a phrase or a word here and there is interpreted with lots of imagination to make the Gap World Theory so. The Bible does not clearly teach in the King James Bible a Gap Theory. So I am not going to believe it. Nowhere does God's Word require me to learn a more ancient language in order to understand His Word.

Try here again. Take your time:

A LONG-HELD VIEW.

 

[JulieB67]

I believe the waters existed prior to God creating everything we read about in Genesis 1.
Why there was water existing prior is only speculation at best.

The waters specifically key into these verses in 2nd Peter,

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

This is not talking about Noah's flood. Not one Christian is willingly ignorant about Noah's flood. This is talking about the world that "was". We also know people survived Noah's flood. Jeremiah talks about no one surviving that time. The world was a perfect paradise and the sons of God shouted for joy at that time. (Job) After Satan's downfall/God's anger ...the mountains themselves even moved. Everyone talks about the big bang, well God gave the earth his big bang so to speak. I know you don't want to agree with science, but the bible does not contradict that the earth is old, it declares it. Examples being verses such as 2nd Peter and so on, connecting all the dots when you take it as a whole.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The waters specifically key into these verses in 1st Peter,

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

This is not talking about Noah's flood. Not one Christian is willingly ignorant about Noah's flood. This is talking about the world that "was". We also know people survived Noah's flood. Jeremiah talks about no one surviving that time. The world was a perfect paradise and the sons of God shouted for joy at that time. (Job) After Satan's downfall/God's anger ...the mountains themselves even moved. Everyone talks about the big bang, well God gave the earth his big bang so to speak. I know you don't want to agree with science, but the bible does not contradict that the earth is old, it declares it. Examples being verses such as 2nd Peter and so on, connecting all the dots when you take it as a whole.

2 Peter 3:5-6 is talking about the six day creation and the global flood.

2 Peter 2:5 says in context:

“And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;” (2 Peter 2:5).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Try here again. Take your time:

A LONG-HELD VIEW.

Again, it talks in terms of pointing a person to the original languages and making one word or a phrase out to be this whole imaginary thing about a Gap Theory. Sorry. Unless you can point to me in the King James Bible of how this theory clearly exists in plain words in the English, I am not really interested. God does not change. If He preserved this message in the Hebrew, He would have preserved this message today in the English. God is not a respecter of persons.

 

[Davy]

I see, the phrase, “the Earth was without form and void” as possibly either:

(a) Nothing there yet but waters and the face of the deep.
(b) Astroid like rocks deep beneath the waters (that is gravity free) taking up a giant section of the universe. In other words, it could possible be like a giant wall of water taking up one side of the universe with floating rocks on the other side of that wall of water.​

The fact that the Genesis 1:2 verse shows those existing waters already, reveals to me that verse 1 is not just a summary statement.

And as for the Hebrew of tohu va bohu ("without form, and void"), it does not really mean a scientific nothingness state, which is just a theoretical religious tradition assumed long ago by the early Church, and still by man today. And what the majority believes is never wrong, right?

Again, these are only possibilities and I don't really know for sure.
I am not going to teach them as biblical fact as Gap Theorists teach their theory as fact. For we look through a glass darkly.

I am just not going to see a Gap World because there is no clear description of one in the Bible.

You keep saying that it would appear in order to appease your inner doubt. If you are determined to not see a thing in God's Word, even when there is Scripture witness about it, then your mind will still reject those Scripture proofs.

Read 1 Kings 13:11-29 about the man of God who disobeyed God's Word and followed the word of another. This is kind of how I see the Gap Theory. While there is no command of obedience given by believing the Gap Theory, it sets forth words that changes our mindset of how we read the Bible. It will mean we can start to create all kinds of theories in the Bible based off one word here and there and claim them as biblical fact (Which can lead to potentially obeying God's Word incorrectly in other things like God's commands). For a false hermeneutics can be destructive in my view.

Oh, I'm well aware of that event of God sending His prophet, and telling him not to stop at his return, and that instead listened to the retired prophet. That's not this situation though. I'm not telling you to believe it if you don't see it written. What I and others here have presented in this thread are Scripture pointers to it, not a command to believe it if you don't want to. So you see, there is a difference with you choosing to not believe it, compared to whether there is written Scripture pointers to it. Your denial doesn't delete the existence of those Scripture pointers (except maybe in your own mind by your own choice, which Pre-trib Rapture theory folks practice that against The Scriptures all the time).

The Gap Theory seems highly likely even as a possibility to me because God said that the creation was very good in Genesis 1:31.

One should remember what Apostle Paul said in Romans 8 that God placed the creation in a state of vanity, in bondage to corruption, and that the creation today seeks a release from that bondage along with the manifestation of the sons of God. Does that serve as a contradiction to God saying His creation is good? No, because God's Word has conditions in it. For example, if this creation of today is so good, then why did He say He is going to destroy it in the future, and instead bring a new heavens, and a new earth? If today's earth is already good and perfect, then why the need for the future world to come? And like Apostles Paul and Peter said, this present world earth age is to be destroyed by God's consuming fire this next time, not waters of a flood. Fact is this present time of His creation is indeed good, but it isn't perfect, while His future new heavens and a new earth will be. Let's talk about why that is a little...

In the new heavens and a new earth, God is not going to allow any wickedness. All evil, including Satan and the abode of hell will be destroyed. Psalms 37 even speaks of the wicked consuming away, and being no more. In Isaiah 65:18 for the new heavens and a new earth time, God said He will then create Jerusalem a rejoicing and her people a joy. Per Revelation 21 we are told the former things (of this present world) will have passed away. In that future time God is going to give us a new mind so we won't recall this present world. The more we look at Scripture about that future world to come, the more we will see the difference between this one and that future one, and then realize that this present world is in bondage to corruption, like Paul said.

This present world seeks perfection, but it will always fall short. Everything man tries to do is in wanting to reach perfection, but he always falls short of it. It's because everything in this world is attached to deterioration (to death and sin). Of course the sun still shines, God makes crops and plants to still grow, life flourishes in many ways by His Hand, and that is the good part. But the corruption of this world is still very apparent, especially with man's works. In contrast, with the world to come, everything will be perfect as one can figure, no more death, no more sin, no more pain, just like He said in Revelation 21.

These does not make sense to call the creation to be very good if it was already stained with sin and death previously. Sin was said to come into this world via by Adam according to Romans 5:12. I don't believe an unbiased reader in good conscience can read Romans 8:19-22 as being in reference to the Gap Theory because it is clearly in reference to the animals of our current six day creation and not a previous one. Jesus refers to words used in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 as being in reference to “the beginning.” So again, this seems highly unlikely that there is another “beginning” or an “extended beginning” that existed in some prior world that was destroyed.

Per 1 John 3:8 the devil sinned from the beginning. When was that? If you understand in Ezekiel 28 God is giving an allegory about Satan's original status as the 'cherub that covereth', and how he was originally perfect in his ways, and then rebelled against God, coveting His throne, then that... was actually the original first sin against God. That also is why the power of death has been assigned to Satan (per Hebrews 2:14-15). Satan is the original author of sin and death. That is why... this present creation is in a state of vanity, bondage of corruption. It's because of what Satan did in the old world prior to Adam and Eve. Without understanding this, one will never understand why there is the need for the future new heavens and a new earth. Nor will one understand just why God placed this present earth in a state of vanity and bondage to corruption, and ordained His Son to be born in the flesh to die on the cross, not just for our Salvation only, but also to release His creation from bondage in the future starting at His return.

 

[Davy]

2 Peter 3:5-6 is talking about the six day creation and the global flood.

2 Peter 2:5 says in context:

“And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;” (2 Peter 2:5).

By your above example, you 'jumped' Bible Chapters, and thus Bible subjects.

The 2 Peter 3:5-7 subject is NOT... the subject of 2 Peter 2:5.

The following is different from the time of Noah...

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV


The phrase, "that by the world of God the heavens were of old" is about God's original perfect creation of Genesis 1:1. God spoke and it came to pass. That is the timeframe Peter was pointing to there, not the time of Noah.

And then the phrase, "and the earth standing out of the water and in the water", is about the destruction on that old earth God caused because of Satan's rebellion, a la Jeremiah 4:23-27. That was the state of the earth at Genesis 1:2 with the waters having flooded that old world. That was not Noah's day. That was a previous flood ending that old world before Adam and Eve. Once again, Peter links the ending of that particular old world with the world when God spoke and His creation first came into existence, which was not the time of Noah.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The fact that the Genesis 1:2 verse shows those existing waters already, reveals to me that verse 1 is not just a summary statement.

And as for the Hebrew of tohu va bohu ("without form, and void"), it does not really mean a scientific nothingness state, which is just a theoretical religious tradition assumed long ago by the early Church, and still by man today. And what the majority believes is never wrong, right?

When looking at words in the dictionary, I can read the Earth as being void as being defined as nothingness.

Void | Definition of Void by Webster's Online Dictionary

Without form suggests the same thing as void. While this phrase “without form and void” is used in a different context in Jeremiah 4:23-27 than in Genesis 1:2, but it does not mean that it still does not mean that the phrase still does not mean: “nothingness.” I can use the word “nothingness” in a literal way (with a literal context), and I can use the word “nothingness” in a more metaphorical way. This is how I see the phrase “without form and void” (i.e. nothingness) being used. It does not mean that the context used the second time must force a meaning upon a previous context.

You keep saying that it would appear in order to appease your inner doubt. If you are determined to not see a thing in God's Word, even when there is Scripture witness about it, then your mind will still reject those Scripture proofs.

Right, I can say the same.
But I just do not see any clear Scritpural proofs for a Gap Theory.
They just do not exist in my King James Bible in the English.

Oh, I'm well aware of that event of God sending His prophet, and telling him not to stop at his return, and that instead listened to the retired prophet. That's not this situation though. I'm not telling you to believe it if you don't see it written. What I and others here have presented in this thread are Scripture pointers to it, not a command to believe it if you don't want to. So you see, there is a difference with you choosing to not believe it, compared to whether there is written Scripture pointers to it. Your denial doesn't delete the existence of those Scripture pointers (except maybe in your own mind by your own choice, which Pre-trib Rapture theory folks practice that against The Scriptures all the time).

There is no Scripture verses for the Gap Theory. So there is nothing I am not accepting.
As for the Pre-Trib Rapture: Yes, there is Scriptural support for it.

You can check that out here (if you are interested):
Pre-Trib Only - My New End Times Chronology

But that is another topic altogether.

One should remember what Apostle Paul said in Romans 8 that God placed the creation in a state of vanity, in bondage to corruption, and that the creation today seeks a release from that bondage along with the manifestation of the sons of God. Does that serve as a contradiction to God saying His creation is good? No, because God's Word has conditions in it. For example, if this creation of today is so good, then why did He say He is going to destroy it in the future, and instead bring a new heavens, and a new earth? If today's earth is already good and perfect, then why the need for the future world to come?

You misunderstood me. Before the Fall of Adam the creation was good (Genesis 1:31).
In Romans 8:19-23: It is referring to the creatures or animal kingdom in how they eagerly await the glorious manifestation of the sons of God (the saints being resurrected). Why? Because they will have a similiar deliverance, as well. The wolf and the lamb will dwell together.

And like Apostles Paul and Peter said, this present world earth age is to be destroyed by God's consuming fire this next time, not waters of a flood.

No disagreement with this point here.

Per 1 John 3:8 the devil sinned from the beginning. When was that? If you understand in Ezekiel 28 God is giving an allegory about Satan's original status as the 'cherub that covereth', and how he was originally perfect in his ways, and then rebelled against God, coveting His throne, then that... was actually the original first sin against God. That also is why the power of death has been assigned to Satan (per Hebrews 2:14-15).

No disagreement with this point here;
But I do not agree with it involving the Gap Theorist spin. Satan did fall, but it was in the beginning at some point after the creation of angels on Day 2 (See: Psalms 104) but before Genesis 3.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

By your above example, you 'jumped' Bible Chapters, and thus Bible subjects.

The 2 Peter 3:5-7 subject is NOT... the subject of 2 Peter 2:5.

The following is different from the time of Noah...

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV

There are technically no chapters in the original manuscripts (even though I do regard the chapters as being placed their by divine means). Anyways, my point here is that 2 Peter is all one letter. The theme of judgment is repeated from 2 Peter 2:5-6 to 2 Peter 3:5-7.

The phrase, "that by the world of God the heavens were of old" is about God's original perfect creation of Genesis 1:1. God spoke and it came to pass. That is the timeframe Peter was pointing to there, not the time of Noah.

I see Genesis 1 being one whole six day creation and I see Peter referring to this time in 2 Peter 3:5, and then he referred to the global flood in verse 6 (2 Peter 3:6).

And then the phrase, "and the earth standing out of the water and in the water", is about the destruction on that old earth God caused because of Satan's rebellion, a la Jeremiah 4:23-27.

I just read Jeremiah 4:23-27 from the Gap Theorist viewpoint.
However, there is a problem, though.
No clear description of such rebellion of Satan exists in Jeremiah 4:23-27.
Sure, I can be imaginative and read this idea into the text and it kind of fits, but the text does not say an actual rebellion of Satan took place in this passage.

That was the state of the earth at Genesis 1:2 with the waters having flooded that old world. That was not Noah's day. That was a previous flood ending that old world before Adam and Eve. Once again, Peter links the ending of that particular old world with the world when God spoke and His creation first came into existence, which was not the time of Noah.

If 2 Peter 2:5-6 was not in the context to 2 Peter 3:5-7, you may be on to something, but the context is the global flood involving Noah.

 

[DavidPT]

By your above example, you 'jumped' Bible Chapters, and thus Bible subjects.

The 2 Peter 3:5-7 subject is NOT... the subject of 2 Peter 2:5.

The following is different from the time of Noah...

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV


The phrase, "that by the world of God the heavens were of old" is about God's original perfect creation of Genesis 1:1. God spoke and it came to pass. That is the timeframe Peter was pointing to there, not the time of Noah.

And then the phrase, "and the earth standing out of the water and in the water", is about the destruction on that old earth God caused because of Satan's rebellion, a la Jeremiah 4:23-27. That was the state of the earth at Genesis 1:2 with the waters having flooded that old world. That was not Noah's day. That was a previous flood ending that old world before Adam and Eve. Once again, Peter links the ending of that particular old world with the world when God spoke and His creation first came into existence, which was not the time of Noah.

Scripture intereprets Scripture. In 2 Peter 3:5-7, one judgment on the ungodly involved a flood, verse 5 and 6. The next judgment on the ungodly involves fire, verse 7. Whether it's meaning literal fire or not, that's debatable.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly


And spared not the old world(2 Peter 2:5)----And the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished(2 Peter 3:5-6)----bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly(2 Peter 2:5)


Something to note here, earth and world in the above passages don't mean the same thing. Earth is meaning the planet. World is meaning a type of inhabitants, the ungodly in this case.


IOW---


2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world of the ungodly that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world of the ungodly, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly


How can 2 Peter 3:6 possibly not mean Noah's flood when 2 Peter 2:5 is meaning Noah's flood? None of the above has a thing to do with an alleged flood upon the earth prior to creation day 1.