The Four Stages of Mankind's Redemption:

[keras]

It’s the same folks who I cited. Matt 24:31 is the gathering of the elect from the many nations in which they currently live. Those are the sheep in Matt 25:34-40. The unbelievers who will survive the Trib will also be from many nations. They are the goats in Matt 25:41-46.

No one is judged twice. The only persons judged after Matt 25, in order, are the AC and the false profit (Rev 19:20); Satan (Rev 20:10); then the last group not yet judged will be those who died in sin (Rev 20:11-15).

This is a confused, mixed up and completely wrong mess up of what the Bible says.
Adding your own ideas to the Prophesies, is seriously wrong and does have consequences.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

This is a confused, mixed up and completely wrong mess up of what the Bible says.
Adding your own ideas to the Prophesies, is seriously wrong and does have consequences.

You lack proof. Empty claims amount to nothing. Show your proof WITH your claim.

Where do the elect go who are gathered in Matt 24:31? Their next step is judgment in Matt 25:31-40. Where else do they go, Keras? Prove it!

Where do the unbelievers go who survive the Trib? Their next step is judgment in Matt 25:41-46. Where else do they go. Show your proof!

 

[keras]

Show your proof!

I have yet to see your proof of a 'rapture to heaven.
That foolish and impossible belief has led millions astray, to their discredit and eternal loss.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I have yet to see your proof of a 'rapture to heaven.
That foolish and impossible belief has led millions astray, to their discredit and eternal loss.

Apostle John was shown supernatural scenes on all of Rev, shown to him by one angel while John was on Patmos.

Specifically, John never left Patmos while writing Rev 4:1-2. Therefore that passage is the pre-Trib rapture of the Church straight to Heaven.

 

[keras]

Apostle John was shown supernatural scenes on all of Rev, shown to him by one angel while John was on Patmos.

Specifically, John never left Patmos while writing Rev 4:1-2. Therefore that passage is the pre-Trib rapture of the Church straight to Heaven.

Please write out Revelation 4:1-2 and underline where it says the Church will be raptured to heaven.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You lack proof. Empty claims amount to nothing. Show your proof WITH your claim.

Where do the elect go who are gathered in Matt 24:31? Their next step is judgment in Matt 25:31-40. Where else do they go, Keras? Prove it!

Where do the unbelievers go who survive the Trib? Their next step is judgment in Matt 25:41-46. Where else do they go. Show your proof!

Do you believe people with mortal bodies (represented as "sheep" in Matthew 25:31-46) will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared since the creation of the world when Jesus comes with His angels, per Matthew 25:31-46?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Please write out Revelation 4:1-2 and underline where it says the Church will be raptured to heaven.

Pre-tribs believing that John himself somehow represents the entire church in Revelation 4:1-2 is one of their more farfetched interpretations of scripture.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Please write out Revelation 4:1-2 and underline where it says the Church will be raptured to heaven.

Rev 4:1-2 are about John writing Rev 4 while watching and hearing the supernatural scene that teaches Rev 4.

Rev 4:1-2 (ESV): After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.

“I looked, and behold,” is about looking at and seeing the supernatural scene being shown to John by the one angel sent to show John all of Rev.

That proves John never left Patmos when seeing and hearing the supernatural scene that he wrote about in Rev 4.

Therefore, Rev 4:1 is unfulfilled. It will fulfill Jesus’ promise in Rev 3:10 to keep all believers from the Trib. That promise will be fulfilled through 1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Th 4:17 and Rev 4:1.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Do you believe people with mortal bodies (represented as "sheep" in Matthew 25:31-46) will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared since the creation of the world when Jesus comes with His angels, per Matthew 25:31-46?

You are lumping groups together that don’t belong together.

The folks in Matt 25:31-40 go into the Millennial Kingdom.

The unbelievers in Matt 25:41-46 are judged and sent to Hell (verse 46).

 

[keras]

That proves John never left Patmos when seeing and hearing the supernatural scene that he wrote about in Rev 4.

God said to John: Come up here.....
John said to God - No thanks, I like the sunny island of Patmos. Yeah right!!!!!

JB, you really must stop rewriting scripture to fit your fanciful beliefs. The Bible tells of the fate of false teachers; Jeremiah 23:30-32
1 Timothy 6:3-6 Anyone who teaches other than the sound precepts of Christ ..... is a pompous ignoramus with a morbid enthusiasm for speculations and different word meanings.
These things give rise to jealousy, quarrelling, slander, evil surmises and endless wrangling, Which is typical of those whose minds are corrupted and who have lost their grip on Truth. ........

 

[Douggg]

God said to John: Come up here.....
John said to God - No thanks, I like the sunny island of Patmos. Yeah right!!!!!

Revelation 4:1-2 is a preview of the future rapture event.

 

[keras]

Revelation 4:1-2 is a preview of the future rapture event.

So you disagree with Jeffery?
I laugh when the rapture proponents can't agree!

They can't agree because such a thing as going to live in heaven, is a fable made by those who have lost their grip on reality.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You are lumping groups together that don’t belong together.

The folks in Matt 25:31-40 go into the Millennial Kingdom.

The unbelievers in Matt 25:41-46 are judged and sent to Hell (verse 46).

My question was not in relation to unbelievers. Please answer the question. Do you believe people with mortal bodies (represented as "sheep" in Matthew 25:31-46) will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared since the creation of the world when Jesus comes with His angels, per Matthew 25:31-46?

When I say "per Matthew 25:31-46", I just mean where what I'm asking about is referenced within that passage in relation to believers. And that is in verse 34, which references believers inheriting the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, and verse 46, which indicates that they inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God at that time. So, my question is simply whether they inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God with mortal or immortal bodies at that time?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

My question was not in relation to unbelievers. Please answer the question. Do you believe people with mortal bodies (represented as "sheep" in Matthew 25:31-46) will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared since the creation of the world when Jesus comes with His angels, per Matthew 25:31-46?

When I say "per Matthew 25:31-46", I just mean where what I'm asking about is referenced within that passage in relation to believers. And that is in verse 34, which references believers inheriting the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, and verse 46, which indicates that they inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God at that time. So, my question is simply whether they inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God with mortal or immortal bodies at that time?

My question was not in relation to unbelievers. Please answer the question. Do you believe people with mortal bodies (represented as "sheep" in Matthew 25:31-46) will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared since the creation of the world when Jesus comes with His angels, per Matthew 25:31-46?

When I say "per Matthew 25:31-46", I just mean where what I'm asking about is referenced within that passage in relation to believers. And that is in verse 34, which references believers inheriting the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, and verse 46, which indicates that they inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God at that time. So, my question is simply whether they inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God with mortal or immortal bodies at that time?

There are sheep (Matt 25:31-40) and goats (Matt 25:42-46).

The sheep go into the MK. No one can say whether they have immortal bodies because that answer is not in the Bible.

The goats are harshly judged and sent to Hell.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There are sheep (Matt 25:31-40) and goats (Matt 25:42-46).

The sheep go into the MK. No one can say whether they have immortal bodies because that answer is not in the Bible.

That answer is in the Bible because they inherit the kingdom of God and mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.

The goats are harshly judged and sent to Hell.

No, they are sent to the lake of fire which is the "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41). Even hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14).

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

That answer is in the Bible because they inherit the kingdom of God and mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.


No, they are sent to the lake of fire which is the "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41). Even hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14).

1 Cor 15:52 serves just one other verse: 1 Th 4:16. Please compare those two verses. They both are part and parcel to the pre-Trib rapture (1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Th 4:17 and Rev 4:1). All those verses will be fulfilled upon the pre-Trib rapture.

The judgements in Matt 25:31-40, 41-46 occur after Armageddon, about seven years after the pre-Trib rapture.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

1 Cor 15:52 serves just one other verse: 1 Th 4:16. Please compare those two verses. They both are part and parcel to the pre-Trib rapture (1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Th 4:17 and Rev 4:1). All those verses will be fulfilled upon the pre-Trib rapture.

I believe that 1 Cor 15:52 relates to the same event as 1 Thess 4:16, but nowhere in those verses, or in the passages that they are part of, does it say anything about a pre-trib rapture.

The judgements in Matt 25:31-40, 41-46 occur after Armageddon, about seven years after the pre-Trib rapture.

You didn't address my point. You have mortal flesh and blood people inheriting the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:34,46 which contradicts the fact that mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 15:50-54). Also, Matthew 25:34,46 has the sheep (the righteous) inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God, showing that they are immortal since they have eternal life at that point.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Revelation 4:1-2 is a preview of the future rapture event.

Doug, Rev 4:1 explains two things.

It first explains what is shouted in 1 Th 4:16.

Rev 4:1 also proves the rapture is directly to Heaven. Therefore, the “air” cited in 1 Th 4:17 has to be the air of Heaven.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I believe that 1 Cor 15:52 relates to the same event as 1 Thess 4:16, but nowhere in those verses, or in the passages that they are part of, does it say anything about a pre-trib rapture.


You didn't address my point. You have mortal flesh and blood people inheriting the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:34,46 which contradicts the fact that mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 15:50-54).

The answer to your question is not in the Bible. My answer is therefore, “I don’t know.”

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The answer to your question is not in the Bible. My answer is therefore, “I don’t know.”

I didn't ask a question, I made a point regarding how Paul taught that mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and therefore Matthew 25:31-46 does not allow for any mortals to populate the earth after Jesus returns since all believers will inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God at that point with all unbelievers being cast into the eternal fire. So, are you saying you don't know if you agree with my point or not?

Another point I would like to make is that since we all know that Matthew 25:31-46 occurs after the tribulation of those days, and that Matthew 25:31-46 describes the time when we will inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God with immortal bodies, then that shows that 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 will be fulfilled at the same time as Matthew 25:31-46, which will be after the tribulation, not before.