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hedrick

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You can't have the whole world wandering around like John the Baptist. According to Luke 8, Jesus was supported by, among other people, the wife of a high administrator. It's a safe bet he hadn't become a hippy, but he was able and willing to give significant support to Jesus. When talking about JBapt, note Luke 3, in which he doesn't tell even tax collectors to abandon their job. They're just not supposed to cheat people.

As far as I can tell, sell everything and go around the countryside is for people working as part of Jesus' team, and those people are supported by others. Without more conventional people supporting him I think Jesus' ministry would have had trouble.

The world would not be a better place if I tried to do that kind of job.

I would actually be amenable to being part of a group that lived in common, like Acts 2:44. I just don't know any around this area.
 
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hedrick

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There are two characteristics of mainline theology that are relevant to the last few postings:

1) We tend to start with Jesus' overall message. This contrasts with conservative exegesis. Inerrancy seems to result in the most striking or unusual passage being controlling. We tend to go the opposite way.

2) We don't think God is into "got'cha" judgement, where if you make the wrong choice on ambiguous evidence, you end up being tortured forever. Most mainliners are either inclusivists or universalists.

If we follow every rule that *might* result in condemnation, we're going to turn into legalists. But that's an approach that both Jesus and Paul were clearly opposed to.
 
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You can't have the whole world wandering around like John the Baptist. According to Luke 8, Jesus was supported by, among other people, the wife of a high administrator. It's a safe bet he hadn't become a hippy, but he was able and willing to give significant support to Jesus. When talking about JBapt, note Luke 3, in which he doesn't tell even tax collectors to abandon their job. They're just not supposed to cheat people.

As far as I can tell, sell everything and go around the countryside is for people working as part of Jesus' team, and those people are supported by others. Without more conventional people supporting him I think Jesus' ministry would have had trouble.

The world would not be a better place if I tried to do that kind of job.

I would actually be amenable to being part of a group that lived in common, like Acts 2:44. I just don't know any around this area.

Matthew 6:25-34
New International Version (NIV)

Do Not Worry

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.
29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?
31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


Why would you worry about what you're going to wear or where your next meal is coming from if you're wealthy?

I didn't know that Jesus was supported in the way you reference, but I'd reckon that the wife was just the means through which God supported Jesus. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and the ram? Remember the donkey that was fetched for Jesus? The Lord will provide... if you let him.

At least, that's my take. You point out that it's not sustainable for everyone to do this, and I agree. But recall that "wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

And let's not forget Matthew 18 where Jesus says,

7What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. 8So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


So I think, for instance, your TV would qualify as your "eye" here. I'm inclined to think that your TV will cause you to sin far more than it will glorify God, so why not sell it to feed the poor? At the same time you're plucking out your eye which has caused you to sin.

We're a long ways off from discussion on the Flood, but I think in some sense we never left the core idea of the thread: exegesis, interpretation, and etc.
 
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hedrick

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On Mat 18:

The passage doesn't actually refer to wealth. It refers to whatever is a stumbling block. There's no reason to think it's always one thing. Poverty can become just as much as danger as wealth.

Don't believe it? In the early church people did try to take this stuff literally. We had saints who lives on top of a pillar, bathing was considered overly luxurious, etc. Among Christians these guys became like superstar athletes today. Simeon Stylites - Wikipedia. I've never been convinced that the resulting lives were actually what Jesus had in mind. One can be ostentatious in poverty just as much as in wealth.

Of course this is violating another of Jesus' teachings, which is that when you fast you should make sure that no one knows it, and when you give alms, don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing. He really wasn't into visible piety.

I tend to think the best way to comply with Jesus' message overall is to avoid extremes in either direction, to live modestly and be generous.
 
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On Mat 18:

The passage doesn't actually refer to wealth. It refers to whatever is a stumbling block. There's no reason to think it's always one thing. Poverty can become just as much as danger as wealth.

Don't believe it? In the early church people did try to take this stuff literally. We had saints who lives on top of a pillar, bathing was considered overly luxurious, etc. Among Christians these guys became like superstar athletes today. Simeon Stylites - Wikipedia. I've never been convinced that the resulting lives were actually what Jesus had in mind. One can be ostentatious in poverty just as much as in wealth.

Of course this is violating another of Jesus' teachings, which is that when you fast you should make sure that no one knows it, and when you give alms, don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing. He really wasn't into visible piety.

I tend to think the best way to comply with Jesus' message overall is to avoid extremes in either direction, to live modestly and be generous.

I realize that Matthew 18 doesn't address wealth. I was just trying to tie one message to another. I think they're all supposed to tie together.

But I agree that some Christians try to take pride in their humility, and that such a practice is as old as Christianity itself.
 
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