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The fatal flaw of Universalism

FineLinen

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ChristianUniversalism.com represents a community of believers who have come to see that everything we had ever dared hope about God is indeed what the Scriptures reveal! We have also come to realize that the Evangelical Church itself has been teaching this in various ways, moving and converging together into one comprehensive view of the God of the universe…

In fact, the Evangelical Church is presently providing the theological foundation for Christian universalism in at least ten areas. All is being taught at the same time …but not yet all in the same place!

The Church is currently proclaiming and teaching us:

1. That God is all-loving and that Christ’s blood was shed for every person who ever lived. That God’s heart is a heart of love and that He desires all men to be saved. (Arminianism)

2. That God is all-powerful and sovereign over His creation and no desire of His can be thwarted. That Christ’s atonement was effectual for everyone for whom He died. (Calvinism/Reformed faith)

3. That the purpose of being chosen or elected by God is not for ourselves but to be a blessing to the world as taught in Gen 12:3. (The missional movement)

4. The belief that every person is made in the image of God which leads us to see that, “we do justice when we give all human beings their due as creations of God” (Tim Keller). He continues, “The Biblical gospel of Jesus necessarily and powerfully leads to a passion for justice in the world…If God’s character includes a zeal for justice that leads Him to have the tenderest love and closest involvement with the socially weak, then what should God’s people be like?” From Generous Justice: How God’s Grace Makes Us Just (the social justice movement)

5. That “restorative justice” ought to replace punitive justice in our prisons leading us to see the nature and goal of true Biblical justice as returning what is wrong to its “right-useness.” While punitive justice (called secondary or rectifying justice) may need to be applied the ultimate end we are told is for repentance, restoration and reconciliation which is God’s primary justice. (the restorative justice movement)

6. The return to the Resurrection as the “lynchpin” of our faith focusing on its centrality and implications for personal holiness, community, evangelism and cultural change. We are being shown how the Resurrection was the preeminent theme of the Early Church and means of power for personal and cultural transformation. (see “The Cross Is Not Enough” by Clifford and Johnson)

7. The Church is being more honest than ever about their desire for Christian Universalism to be true. While they affirm what they believe Scripture to say about an eternal hell they are not holding back from saying that it troubles them greatly and that they “wish it were not true.” God says “Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.” Our collective desire is a huge indicator that God has indeed written it on our hearts!

8. The theme of total restoration is found in more and more worship songs. We are regularly singing about “all things new” and “You make beautiful things out of dust” (Gungor). Mercy Me sings, “All of creation sing with me now…every knee will bow, every tongue will praise the Father, praise the Son and the Spirit in One.” Hillsong’s last album is just brimming with songs of ultimate restoration and, “all of the universe at Your feet.” See many more examples here: God's Love Wins

9. The balance of a Systematic Theology approach with the Story of God as a method for looking at the Bible as a whole. We are being led to see that the Bible is not a bunch of rules with stories throughout but rather One Grand Story with principles sprinkled throughout. This approach reveals more clearly the history and path of God as a missionary God continually pursuing His creation. (Biblical Storying method, see echothestory.com)

10. The Church’s emphasis on a more cosmic redemption involving the entire created order and the belief that Christ’s death was to restore the universe eradicating all evil, sin and decay. This naturally begs the question of where do you place “a world of damned people” (billions) who traditionally we have been taught will be consigned to eternal death in a location in God’s universe called hell? Well, we just don’t talk about it. Listen to a sample of the overriding restoration language of Christianity Today editor, Mark Galli,

“To be holy means to be set apart for divine purposes. God wants nothing less than all creation, which is now subject to decay, futility, and corruption, to become sanctified, alive, and completely dedicated to His purposes.” Jesus Mean and Wild (pg. 44)

Tim Keller is continually weighing in on this theme frequently quoting the line from The Lord of the Rings, “everything sad is going to come untrue.” Hear this quote from The Reason for God:

“How then, will the story of human history end? At the end of the final book of the Bible, we see the very opposite of what other religions predict. We do not see the illusion of the world melt away nor do we see spiritual souls escaping the physical world into heaven. Rather, we see heaven descending into our world to unite with it and purify it of all its brokenness and imperfection. It will be a “new heavens and a new earth.” The prophet Isaiah depicts this as a new Garden of Eden, in which there is again absolute harmony of humanity with nature and the end of all injury, disease, and death.”

Tim Keller, The Reason for God (pg 232)

So there you have it, either you must conclude that every church represents a different God within a different religion or you can let yourself see the big picture: That God is, in His fullness, all of the above. Which aspects would you leave out? All together they form the worldview of “Christian Universalism” or “Ultimate Restoration.”

“We don’t have it all together but together we have it all.”
 
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Der Alte

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Didn't the 'clues' get you there?
Nope!
"Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. "But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. "So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows. (Mt 10:29-31)
Even a birdbrain like me can get that Jesus is here reassuring the disciples that God won't destroy their body and souls in hell.
And you think this parable means God will not destroy their body and soul in hell although Jesus had said fear Him who can destroy body and soul in heaven?
You are correct, plenty do. We've been over them.
Nope!
Lazarus was factual but the rich man was a plot device imho.
I wonder how Jesus' immediate audience understood Jesus, especially when Jesus specifically named Abraham
I did and they do. I really don't see the issue in converting 'old covenant' laws to 'new covenant' grace teaching. Not taking in the stranger is just an incidence of failing to love one's neighbour. It's another no-birdbrainer.
Do you think previously pagan gentile converts would have understood all that?
He's encased in Luke 16 for eternity. Like the Shrewd Manager.
Too vague.
That should be a lesson to the Pharisees Jesus was trying to get through to. Sadly they were locked into some legalistic mindset and couldn't see the forest for the trees. Hopeless cases, know what I mean?
Maybe because it did not mean what you want it to make it mean.
The Pharisees were packing their bags for heaven, Jesus flipped them.
I see nothing in Luke following chap. 16 . which indicates they understood that. And Jesus never explained Luke 16:19-32 as a parable.
Mark 9:47-50:
"If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’ "For everyone will be salted with fire. "Salt is good; but if the salt becomes unsalty, with what will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another."
I believe that "all will be salted with fire" refers only to those, in the previous verse, who get tossed into hell where the fire is not quenched and their worm does not die as stated by the scholar I quoted.
In context, in, in, IN context. Again, Jesus shows us the fire will salt and salt is good. If A (the fire) causes B (the salting) and B (the salt) is good, then A (the fire) is good. Capisce?
As above, the fire is for good. So if the worms are of the fire, then they are also for the good. We're doing 'reason'.
See my previous response.
The fire and the darkness are different.
The Jews believed that although there is fire hell is dark.
So what did you experience then?
Not the time for that. Matthew 7:6
 
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FineLinen

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From eternity past God intended that the most vivid and profound demonstration of his glory would come in the form of His work of salvation on the cross of Christ.

- God then made man to punish him.

- He made him perfect and thus unlikely to ever need punishing, or, for that matter, a Savior.

- By a happy coincidence, and against all the odds, this perfect man sinned, thus allowing God to fulfill His purposes for both the man and Christ.

- When he sinned, God, who is suddenly confronted with the prospect of being able to fulfill all of His original plans, becomes furious.

What you have just read is not a joke. I wish that it were.

Rather, I have simply enumerated the points that comprise the Calvinist theological system, or, as I call it:

the Happy Coincidence model of sin and salvation.

It reflects what can only be described as an Alice-in-Wonderland reality, in -which the only sense is nonsense, and logic is the enemy. -Stephen Campana-

giphy.gif
 
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FineLinen

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Jesus said, “I am the Bread of Life. The person who aligns with me hungers no more and thirsts no more, ever. I have told you this explicitly because even though you have seen me in action, you don’t really believe me. Every person the Father gives me eventually comes running to me. And once that person is with me, I hold on and don’t let go. I came down from heaven not to follow my own whim but to accomplish the will of the One who sent me.

“This, in a nutshell, is that will: that everything handed over to me by the Father be completed—not a single detail missed—and at the wrap-up of time I have everything and everyone put together, upright and whole. This is what my Father wants: that anyone who sees the Son and trusts who he is and what he does and then aligns with him will enter real life, eternal life. My part is to put them on their feet alive and whole at the completion of time.” -The Message-
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
“This, in a nutshell, is that will: that everything handed over to me by the Father be completed—not a single detail missed—and at the wrap-up of time I have everything and everyone put together, upright and whole. This is what my Father wants: that anyone who sees the Son and trusts who he is and what he does and then aligns with him will enter real life, eternal life. My part is to put them on their feet alive and whole at the completion of time.” -The Message
Unfortunately those who believe this will, to their detriment, find out the Bible does not say this. Jesus said and meant "these shall go away into eternal punishment."
Nine verses where Jesus defines "aionios" as eternal.

John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse aionios life is contrasted with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse aionios is contrasted with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.
John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse “aionios meat” is contrasted with “meat that perishes” .” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."
According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent "The double negative “ ου μη/ou mé” signifies in nowise, by no means." Unless Jesus is saying whoever obeys Him will die, i.e. see death, unto the age, by definition aion means eternity.
A verse which shows that κόλασις/kolasis does not mean "correction."

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. [κόλασις/kolasis] He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
He that fears has kolasis torment and is not made perfect. No correction.
 
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FineLinen

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"For by Him everybody and everything were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—everybody and everything have been created through Him and for Him. He is before everybody and everything, and in Him everybody and everything is held together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everybody and everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile everybody and everything to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, everybody and everything on earth or in heaven."
 
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FineLinen

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We are all, I suspect, familiar with the famous expression from Julian of Norwich, now an axiom in our language. “In the end all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.” To which Oscar Wilde is reported to have added:

“And if it isn’t well, then it’s still not the end.”

Few words better express what we celebrate in the Resurrection of Jesus. Belief in the Resurrection, belief that God raised Jesus from the dead, constitutes the very ground of our Christian faith. Everything else we believe in as Christians is grounded on that truth and, as St Paul says, if that isn’t true, if Jesus wasn’t raised from the dead, we are the most deluded of all people.

But if God did raise Jesus, and we believe that he did, then not only can the rest of Jesus’s message be trusted, but we can also then live with the ultimate consolation that the end of our story has already been written and it is a happy, ecstatic ending. We will, in the end, live happily ever after. Life is indeed a fairy tale.

How does the Resurrection of Jesus guarantee that? Here’s how Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, that wonderful scientist and mystic from the previous generation, answered that. Once, having just made a presentation within which he outlined a vision of how the cosmos and all of life will come together in one final harmony inside the Cosmic Christ at the end of time, he was challenged by a sceptic to this effect: “That’s a lot of wishful thinking and optimism. But suppose we blow up the world with a nuclear bomb, what happens to your wishful thinking then?”

Teilhard’s answer distinguishes genuine Christian hope both from wishful thinking and natural optimism, even as it affirms what the Resurrection of Jesus guarantees. He responded in words to this effect: “If we blow up the world with a nuclear bomb, well, that would be a two million-year setback. But what I’m proposing will happen, not because I wish it so or have empirical evidence to warrant it. It will happen because Christ promised it, and in the Resurrection God showed that He has the power to deliver on that promise.”

What we believe in as Christians is not based on wishful thinking or natural optimism; it’s based on the word and promises of Jesus and the trustworthiness of that word and those promises is guaranteed by the Resurrection of Jesus. When we believe this, we can live without undue anxiety about anything, confident that the end of our story is already written and that it’s a happy ending.

If we believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, if we believe in the Resurrection, then, in essence, we believe that the world is already saved. We don’t have to save the world; we only have to live in face of the fact that we believe it has already been saved. And if we live with that belief we can risk everything, risk our very lives, knowing that our ending of our story has already been written and that it’s a happy one, no matter how dire things might look at present.

We see a wonderful example of this kind of belief in Archbishop Desmond Tutu, one of the key figures in opposing and eventually ending apartheid in South Africa. Amid the struggle to bring down apartheid, facing every kind of threat, he remained steadfast and even joyful in the face of threats and overwhelming odds. What anchored him in his steadiness and joy? Belief in the Resurrection of Jesus.

Occasionally on a Sunday morning when he was preaching, soldiers would come into the church and line up along the aisles with their weapons in hand, hoping to intimidate him. Tutu, for his part, would smile at them and say: “I am glad you’ve come to join the winning side! We’ve already won!”

In saying this, he wasn’t talking about the battle over apartheid which, at that point, was still far from won. He was talking about the Resurrection of Jesus, the definitive triumph of goodness over evil, which assures that, in the end, goodness will eventually triumph over evil, love over division, justice over injustice, and life over death.

Knowing that, we can live life in confidence and hope. It will end well, not because we wish it so or because things are looking that way for us. It will end well because Jesus promised it would and in the Resurrection God backs up that promise.

Hence there’s nothing to fear, nothing – not defeat, not threat, not loss, not sickness, not even death. The Resurrection of Jesus assures us that in the end all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well; and if it isn’t well … well, then it’s still not the end.

https://catholicherald.co.uk/magazin...shall-be-well/
 
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Saint Steven

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A merciful and loving God cannot be just to send part of His creation to a place such as this while some others enjoy the presence of God forever.
From the OP - post #1

Charlie, I thought you believed in the wide gate that leads to destruction. If so, how can you claim "part" will be sent to hell while "some others" enjoy the presence of God forever?

Doesn't the wide gate mean that the vast majority will go to destruction while the "few that find" the narrow gate will be saved from destruction? (in your view)

And who do you claim made these arrangements? Our loving and merciful Father? Intentionally made a set of gates that would destroy the vast majority of his own creation? What a monstrous accusation. If that is your view. --- Please tell me I misunderstand you. Thanks.
 
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Charlie24

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From the OP - post #1

Charlie, I thought you believed in the wide gate that leads to destruction. If so, how can you claim "part" will be sent to hell while "some others" enjoy the presence of God forever?

Doesn't the wide gate mean that the vast majority will go to destruction while the "few that find" the narrow gate will be saved from destruction? (in your view)

And who do you claim made these arrangements? Our loving and merciful Father? Intentionally made a set of gates that would destroy the vast majority of his own creation? What a monstrous accusation. If that is your view. --- Please tell me I misunderstand you. Thanks.

If UR is true, God is a liar!

Heb. 3:11
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

But if you change the Word of God as did Darby and Young, then God is not a liar.
 
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Saint Steven

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If UR is true, God is a liar!

Heb. 3:11
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

But if you change the Word of God as did Darby and Young, then God is not a liar.
Wow, Charlie. What a thing to say. Especially on such flimsy and false biblical evidence.

Context; remember that? The verse you quoted is speaking about the Israelites who wandered for 40 years dying off so that they would not enter the Promised Land. (rest)
It has NOTHING to do with the final judgement. Yet you call God a liar? Wow.

And AGAIN, an English translation of the Bible is not in and of itself the Word of God.
The English translations of the Bible do not even agree.

Would you like to take another try at answering my post?

Was it God's plan to create humankind with the intention of imprisoning the vast majority (countless billions) in a forever burning hell with no hope of escape? Can you in good conscience claim our loving and merciful heavenly Father would do such a thing? I hope not.

Saint Steven said:
From the OP - post #1

Charlie, I thought you believed in the wide gate that leads to destruction. If so, how can you claim "part" will be sent to hell while "some others" enjoy the presence of God forever?

Doesn't the wide gate mean that the vast majority will go to destruction while the "few that find" the narrow gate will be saved from destruction? (in your view)

And who do you claim made these arrangements? Our loving and merciful Father? Intentionally made a set of gates that would destroy the vast majority of his own creation? What a monstrous accusation. If that is your view. --- Please tell me I misunderstand you. Thanks.
 
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Charlie24

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Wow, Charlie. What a thing to say. Especially on such flimsy and false biblical evidence.

Context; remember that? The verse you quoted is speaking about the Israelites who wandered for 40 years dying off so that they would not enter the Promised Land. (rest)
It has NOTHING to do with the final judgement. Yet you call God a liar? Wow.

And AGAIN, an English translations of the Bible is not in and of itself the Word of God.
The English translation of the Bible do not even agree.

Would you like to take another try at answering my post?

Was it God's plan to create humankind with the intention of imprisoning the vast majority (countless billions) in a forever burning hell with no hope of escape? Can you in good conscience claim our loving and merciful heavenly Father would do such a thing? I hope not.

Saint Steven said:
From the OP - post #1

Charlie, I thought you believed in the wide gate that leads to destruction. If so, how can you claim "part" will be sent to hell while "some others" enjoy the presence of God forever?

Doesn't the wide gate mean that the vast majority will go to destruction while the "few that find" the narrow gate will be saved from destruction? (in your view)

And who do you claim made these arrangements? Our loving and merciful Father? Intentionally made a set of gates that would destroy the vast majority of his own creation? What a monstrous accusation. If that is your view. --- Please tell me I misunderstand you. Thanks.

Steven, anywhere you read in scripture "the Promised Land" it is a direct shadow of the heavenly Promised Land. The physical always represents the spiritual.
 
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FineLinen

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“I see Jesus in every human being. I say to myself, this is hungry Jesus, I must feed him. This is sick Jesus. This one has leprosy or gangrene; I must wash him and tend to him. I serve because I love Jesus.” -Mother Teresa-
 
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Saint Steven

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Steven, anywhere you read in scripture "the Promised Land" it is a direct shadow of the heavenly Promised Land. The physical always represents the spiritual.
"Always" is a BIG word.

You had the whole Bible to pick your defense from. Yet you chose that verse?
An OT quote in the NT, that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the final judgement.

And you still haven't answered my post.
 
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Charlie24

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"Always" is a BIG word.

You had the whole Bible to pick your defense from. Yet you chose that verse?
An OT quote in the NT, that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the final judgement.

And you still haven't answered my post.

Have a blessed day, Steven!

I'm praying for you Brother!
 
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Saint Steven

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Have a blessed day, Steven!

I'm praying for you Brother!
I love you, Charlie.
Please give serious thought to my original inquiry posted below.
Did God really have a premeditated plan to send countless billions to hell?
What purpose does this serve?

Saint Steven said:
From the OP - post #1

Charlie, I thought you believed in the wide gate that leads to destruction. If so, how can you claim "part" will be sent to hell while "some others" enjoy the presence of God forever?

Doesn't the wide gate mean that the vast majority will go to destruction while the "few that find" the narrow gate will be saved from destruction? (in your view)

And who do you claim made these arrangements? Our loving and merciful Father? Intentionally made a set of gates that would destroy the vast majority of his own creation? What a monstrous accusation. If that is your view. --- Please tell me I misunderstand you. Thanks.
 
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Charlie24

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I love you, Charlie.
Please give serious thought to my original inquiry posted below.
Did God really have a premeditated plan to send countless billions to hell?
What purpose does this serve?

Saint Steven said:
From the OP - post #1

Charlie, I thought you believed in the wide gate that leads to destruction. If so, how can you claim "part" will be sent to hell while "some others" enjoy the presence of God forever?

Doesn't the wide gate mean that the vast majority will go to destruction while the "few that find" the narrow gate will be saved from destruction? (in your view)

And who do you claim made these arrangements? Our loving and merciful Father? Intentionally made a set of gates that would destroy the vast majority of his own creation? What a monstrous accusation. If that is your view. --- Please tell me I misunderstand you. Thanks.

Ezekiel 18:23-25
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
 
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Saint Steven

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Ezekiel 18:23-25
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
What?
So now you are claiming salvation by works? Based on an OT passage?
You still haven't addressed my post.

Ezekiel 18:23-25 NIV
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
 
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Charlie24

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What?
So now you are claiming salvation by works? Based on an OT passage?
You still haven't addressed my post.

Ezekiel 18:23-25 NIV
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

Individual accountability!

For every person that dies in their sins, the terrible death of our Lord on the cross was in vain.
 
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Shrewd Manager

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Individual accountability!

For every person that dies in their sins, the terrible death of our Lord on the cross was in vain.

That's true Charlie, and the death of our Lord was NOT in vain. So what needs to happen? Restoration to life, in Christ, Charlie!
 
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Lazarus Short

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Individual accountability!

For every person that dies in their sins, the terrible death of our Lord on the cross was in vain.

Why do you portray our Savior as a failure? He said that if He were lifted up He would draw ALL men to Himself. Did He lie?
 
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