Jord Simcha
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86 is also the numerical value of Elohim, one of God's titles in Hebrew.Wow. That is so funny. Where I come from 86'd is to be given the boot. Seems that it means that to you as well.
86 is also the numerical value of Elohim, one of God's titles in Hebrew.
Dear Fine: No thanks. Universalism is what it is:
1)
2 Timothy 2:14 NIV
[ Dealing With False Teachers ] Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
2) is in opposition to this truth:
1 Chronicles 28:9 YLT
…. for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever.
It occurred to me this morning that this was a test like with Abraham and Isaac.What would become of you if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day and then sat down and said to God, "Okay, I'm ready to listen to you now. Talk to me.", what would happen? Would he leave you alone, or speak to you audibly for the first time? Would that be worth it, or would you prefer to keep your library instead?
It occurred to me this morning that this was a test like with Abraham and Isaac.
Genesis 22:7-8
Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”
“Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.
“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”
8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.
Only those in Christ. And we say all will accept Christ, either in this world or the next. Every knee shall bow.
Not so. The sinners are defined by their sins at the GWTJ. See Rev 21:8:
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
The word 'death' is used in various ways in the Bible and Rev in particular. Can signify physically dead, or dead in Christ, or dead to Christ.
The aim of the second death is to kill death generally. Which means to give life. If death is killed, only life remains (by elimination!). So the lake of fire kills death and sin (that causes death).
That's why we see the nations who get zapped in Rev 20:9 or presumably chucked in the LoF as unbelievers in Rev 20:15 emerge repentant and worshipful in Rev 21:24-26, and get healing by the tree of life in Rev 22:2. It's because the judgment is they need a good cleaning up.
What a shame brother, you know the earthly truth, but you think God gives up on His creation? That's what the cross is all about - it's God guaranteeing us He'll go further to save than the devil can go to destroy. His love doesn't quit just because we do. What a petty deity that would be lol.
As all things came from God, so too shall all things return to Him.
Good. I was hoping someone would make that connection. - lolNow you're talking to yourself, Steve!
Let's pray that God confirms that prophecy to Charlie. This is an opportunity to grow.Now you're talking to yourself, Steve!
You could well be right. We draw nearer to God each time we take a leap of faith and give up things we're attached to (idols).
But hey, isn't the translation there better as "God will provide the lamb Himself..." See how that works?
I'll have to admit that I am still grappling with this whole free-will vs. predestination thing. It seems that both are as true as they are in conflict. But such is the nature of things. - lolMartin Luther
"God forbid that I should limit the time of acquiring faith to the present life. In the depth of the Divine mercy there may be opportunity to win it in the future."
(Martin Luther’s letter to Hans von Rechenberg, 1522.)
In the conclusion of (The bondage of the will) Martin Luther wrote
“Even according to the testimony of reason herself there can be no "Free-will"—in man,—in angel,—or in any creature!”
TrueCovenanter.com: The Bondage of the Will
You can twist Revelation 20 to fit your belief but the Bible states they are judged by their works.
‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.
“Even according to the testimony of reason herself there can be no "Free-will"—in man,—in angel,—or in any creature!”
That is such an interesting connection. Thanks.So the worm turns. It's just prophetic rhetoric, which is scary retributive sounding language, employed for a restorative purpose. It's an idiom that occurs throughout the Bible and in many cultures to the present day.
Well, it seems that those choices are important, pivotal in fact.The idea of free will is just an expression of human vanity. We can only choose whom we serve, and in the end we will choose Jesus lol.
What the Damnationists consider to be the lowest lifeform, the damned,
God in his mercy and love sees value in EVERY created being.
Well, it seems that those choices are important, pivotal in fact.
Explain why you see it as an expression of human vanity. Thanks.
I stand corrected. - LOLCorrection, second lowest lifeform...they consider universalists to be the first.
Sorry if I am being thick-headed. As I said, I am still grappling with this. Toss me a grappling hook and I may be able to get out of this hole. - lolThought I just did. It's vanity to think we can freely choose anything except whom to serve, either Jesus or Satan. Augustine puts it as City of God or City of Man. The thing is that ultimately serving man/ the devil only takes us back to Christ, whether in this world or the next. So in the final analysis, it's all predetermined. Clear as mud?
Perhaps this synopsis will help:I'll have to admit that I am still grappling with this whole free-will vs. predestination thing. It seems that both are as true as they are in conflict. But such is the nature of things. - lol
Perhaps this synopsis will help:
Calvinism: God is strong enough to save everyone + God does not want to save everyone = everyone is not saved.
Arminianism: God is not strong enough to save everyone + God does want to save everyone = everyone is not saved.
Universalism: God is strong enough to save everyone + God does want to save everyone = everyone is saved.
Quoted from David Burnfield's book Patristic Universalism which I highly recommend. Also may want to check out David Bentley Hart's That All Shall Be Saved. I haven't read this book but Hart is no slouch.
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