THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

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Shrewd Manager

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I truly hope for the best for all, that’s how he taught us to pray, give us, forgive us, not give me and forgive me.

who am I to say what will happen in the end

in that, who is anyone?

So is it fair to say you hope for universal salvation but don't repose your faith in it?

What do you make of this prophecy?

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. (Is 11:6)
 
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FineLinen

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Eliz. Barrett Browning

quote-earth-s-crammed-with-heaven-and-every-common-bush-afire-with-god-but-only-he-who-sees-elizabeth-barrett-browning-3-88-46.jpg
 
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JacksBratt

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Eliz. Barrett Browning

quote-earth-s-crammed-with-heaven-and-every-common-bush-afire-with-god-but-only-he-who-sees-elizabeth-barrett-browning-3-88-46.jpg
So..... Who is Elizabeth Barret Browning, that I should read something she said, that has nothing to do with your view... and then.. .take that unrelated quote over the written word of God.
 
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JacksBratt

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A single quote can be made of anyone, any document and any text... to say anything you want.. when you want it to...

Your quotes... don't hold any water...

Check these:


Ecclesiastes 10:19 King James Version (KJV)


19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.


Some stupid quotes by famous people only prove that "who cares" what other people say, if they are ignorant of what they speak...

“What use could this company make of an electrical toy?"

William Orton, president, Western Union Telegraph Company
WHEN HE SAID IT: In 1876, after being offered the chance to buy the patent for the telephone.

“Not to mince words, Mr. Epstein, but we don’t like your boys’ sound. Groups are out; four-piece groups with guitars particularly are finished.”
Dick Rowe, executive in charge of evaluating new talent for the London office of Decca Records about the Beatles.

WHEN HE SAID IT: Early 1962

“640K ought to be enough [memory] for anybody.”

Bill Gates, Chairman of Microsoft, allegedly

 
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FineLinen

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So..... Who is Elizabeth Barret Browning, that I should read something she said, that has nothing to do with your view... and then.. .take that unrelated quote over the written word of God.

With the vast knowledge you posses regarding not preaching the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ it comes as an overwhelming shock you know not the Browning (s) lol.

Anne Bronte

One of the three famous Bronte sisters, Anne is remembered for being the most pious. Before she died from tuberculosis at the tender age of 29, Anne admitted to a faith in universalism, as the following poem and letter testify.

A Word to The 'Elect'

You may rejoice to think yourselves secure;
You may be grateful for the gift divine -
That grace unsought, which made your black hearts pure,
And fits your earth-born souls in Heaven to shine.

But, is it sweet to look around, and view
Thousands excluded from that happiness
Which they deserved, at least, as much as you, -
Their faults not greater, nor their virtues less?

And, wherefore should you love your God the more,
Because to you alone his smiles are given;
Because he chose to pass the many o'er,
And only bring the favoured few to Heaven?

And, wherefore should your hearts more grateful prove,
Because for ALL the Saviour did not die?
Is yours the God of justice and of love?
And are your bosoms warm with charity?

Say, does your heart expand to all mankind?
And, would you ever to your neighbor do -
The weak, the strong, the enlightened, and the blind -
As you would have your neighbor do to you?

And, when you, looking on your fellow-men,
Behold them doomed to endless misery,
How can you talk of joy and rapture then? -
May God withhold such cruel joy from me!

That none deserve eternal bliss I know;
Unmerited the grace in mercy given:
But, none shall sink to everlasting woe,
That have not well deserved the wrath of Heaven.

And, oh! there lives within my heart
A hope, long nursed by me;
(And, should its cheering ray depart,
How dark my soul would be!)

That as in Adam all have died,
In Christ shall all men live;
And ever round his throne abide,
Eternal praise to give.

That even the wicked shall at last
Be fitted for the skies;
And, when their dreadful doom is past,
To life and light arise.

I ask not, how remote the day,
Nor what the sinners' woe,
Before their dross is purged away;
Enough for me, to know

That when the cup of wrath is drained,
The metal purified,
They'll cling to what they once disdained,
And live by Him that died.

--Anne Bronte (1843)
 
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FineLinen

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Look at the scriptures provided dear Fine and drink of the living waters of eternal life.

Dear Lover: There is a wonderful Scripture you have missed from Hezekiah.

Do not take yourself too seriously. Nobody else does.
 
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JacksBratt

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With the vast knowledge you posses regarding not preaching the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ it comes as an overwhelming shock you know not the Browning (s) lol.

Are you ready to speak with Gerry B. yet?
NOPE.. Why speak to someone that believes like you do... More of the same.. I don't talk to Tom Cruise or John Travolta in regards to Scientology... why bother talking to Gerry B?
 
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FineLinen

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“It may be questioned whether we understand the terms ‘forever,’ ‘forever and ever,’ and ‘everlasting,’ aright, for these terms are used in divers places as things that have an end and are understood in a limited and qualified sense.

These terms are too weak a foundation to build an assertion of everlasting hell upon, as concludes and shuts up God forever in wrath, never to come forth in the exercise of mercy.

Whether or not there is an ending is not revealed by the use of these terms.

O my God, Thou art love and canst no more cease to be so than to be Thyself. Take Thy own methods with us, and submit us to them. Well may we do so in an assurance that the beginning, the way, and the end of them all is love. I must believe then that Thy grace will super-abound wherever sin hath most abounded.” -Jeremiah White-
 
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Lazarus Short

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NOPE.. Why speak to someone that believes like you do... More of the same.. I don't talk to Tom Cruise or John Travolta in regards to Scientology... why bother talking to Gerry B?

Why bother talking with Fine Linen? Are you really searching for Truth? Or do you just want "more of the same"? BTW, Scientology was founded by a third-rate science fiction writer (I know - I read one of his novels...) on a bet. UR was not.

We both worship and look forward to meeting our Lord Jesus/Yashua the Christ, the Finder of the lost sheep, lost coin - the One who picked up the crumbs of the feeding of the multitude. I once was the lost sheep, lost coin, one of many crumbs off the table. Now I get to sit at said table with Christ at the head. One way or another, I will see you there...
 
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ClementofA

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O my God, Thou art love and canst no more cease to be so than to be Thyself. Take Thy own methods with us, and submit us to them. Well may we do so in an assurance that the beginning, the way, and the end of them all is love. I must believe then that Thy grace will super-abound wherever sin hath most abounded.” -Jeremiah White-

Well said!
 
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FineLinen

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Well said!

ClementofA: where have you been? I have missed you a bunch. You have arrived home to planet earth in the nick of time. (lol)

Every created thing (pan ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off. Saying (legonta). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have legonta (grammatical gender agreeing with panta) present active participle of legw, to say. And to the Lamb (kai twi arniwi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne. Note separate articles here in the doxology as in Romans 4:11 and the addition of to krato (active power) in place of iscu (reserve of strength) in Romans 5:12 . -Robertson Word Pictures-
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, thank you for your expanding on the scriptural axioms I put forward and agreeing with most. So it seems we differ on the point as to the scope of Jesus' mission. You say it was only to save his own (the elect?), I say it was to save the 'radical all', everything that was created through him and fell in Adam.
Well I think there are many of those points that we do not agree on and some we may but the difference between us is that what I believe is supported by the scriptures shared with you from post # 408 linked.
I don't want to engage in a 'proof text' battle over this. Suffice it to say, if you prefer a tighter mission ('Just the PoWs Rambo!'), then that would enable you to assert Jesus mission was a success even if 'the many' were ultimately expendable ('We couldn't help him, sorry').
It is a pity as I thought that now introductions were over we could start talking the scriptures. After all this is the test for all truth and error as we are told to test the Spirits if their teachings are from God or not in 1 JOHN 4:1-6. What you say here dear Shrewd is simply a red flag to me if you believe those scriptures as only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings of men that lead us away from God and his Word *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 5:29
Sure, look, that's entirely up to you. Um, don't know what to say, bit of an anticlimax really, sorry to hear it fell below the poverty line. Is that it Lord, just those guys? Well, I guess Buddha and Uhura Mazda and some of these other dinky deities can pick up the castaways, scrounge through God's garbage bin. What do you say, deregulate the industry due to the supply glut?
Sorry I do not know what your talking about here. If I posted scripture to your questions dear Shrewd and you do not know how to respond perhaps it is time to reconsider what you believe.
Thanks, but I'll stick with the absolutes here, God made it all very good through Christ, and by Christ He'll restore it all to primo condition. Some clay takes more work than others, as we'll no doubt all be finding out.
Ok I will stick with what the scriptures teach and thankyou for sharing your view.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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So is it fair to say you hope for universal salvation but don't repose your faith in it?

What do you make of this prophecy?

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. (Is 11:6)
In the beginning, the world was given the plants and the fruit to eat. Then something terrible happened. When death is destroyed, nothing will want to devour.

Reading further on, Isaiah 11:10-12 seems to relate to Romans 11:28-33 in “all Israel” being saved.

So to answer your question, Romans 11:32 seems relevant, but I remember hearing once that there is no sacrifice in Levitical law for intentional sin.

The reason given as to why there is no sacrifice for intentional sin is because unintentional sin needs to be seen before guilt is felt, and as soon as it is realised, atonement can be made, but when it’s intentional, the only forgiveness comes from repentance and grace.

Maybe that’s the problem I have with the way this is presented. It seems to replace hope and prayer with “knowing״ and “proving” and you can’t prove to God. You can hope.


And more to the point you can hope in mercy rather than place faith in purgatory.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Dear Lover: There is a wonderful Scripture you have missed from Hezekiah. Do not take yourself too seriously. Nobody else does.

Dear Fine, for me only God's Word is true and this is all I have shared with you. They are Gods Words and not my words and I believe we should take them all seriously as these words that are Gods' become our judge come judgement day according to him who's Words they are. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. Yet here you are dear friend pointing people away from God and his Word to the teachings of men and women.

It is given to the blind to have eyes to see and ears to hear and the lame to walk while those saying they see do not see. Those saying they hear do not hear and those saying they walk do not walk. This is because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. They that be whole do not need the physician but those that are sick seek him. Many do not know the meaning.

Who can know the mind of God? As the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways from your ways and so are my thoughts from your thoughts. But the Spirit of truth is given only to those that are poor. He is the teacher of all the poor in spirit, he knows them all by name because he reads the intent of the heart that is sick. Who can look into the mirror that God gives to see who they are? These are those the look into the mirror and see God. The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know them because in his mind they are foolishness. Now you say you see say some therefore their sins remains. Come let us reason together; Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: If any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Call upon me while I am near, tomorrow may be too late and why will you die when by my stripes you may be healed. With an everlasting love have I loved you and with loving kindness have I drawn you therefore why will you turn from me? It is hard to kick against the pricks.

Do you know these scriptures dear Fine? Is there something you have missed?
 
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ClementofA

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ClementofA: where have you been? I have missed you a bunch. You have arrived home to planet earth in the nick of time. (lol)

Every created thing (pan ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off. Saying (legonta). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have legonta (grammatical gender agreeing with panta) present active participle of legw, to say. And to the Lamb (kai twi arniwi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne. Note separate articles here in the doxology as in Romans 4:11 and the addition of to krato (active power) in place of iscu (reserve of strength) in Romans 5:12 . -Robertson Word Pictures-

Amen!

Working till C-19 hit. Nice to see you, pal.

Stay safe, live long & prosper!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But treating it as an infernal torture chamber of the most grotesque variety is just fine?'We're down the rabbit hole here ppl.'

I do not believe in eternal conscious torment and think it is a false teaching that originated from the Roman Catholic Church that teaches a cruel vengeful God. To me there is no difference to this teaching and what Universalism teaches which claims without scripture support that God tortures all those who do not believe him into repentance until they worship him. In my view this is only a simply variation of the same Catholic dogma that teaches a cruel unloving God but denies God's justice and judgement and makes a mockery of the Cross.
 
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ClementofA

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I do not believe in eternal conscious torment and think it is a false teaching that originated from the Roman Catholic Church that teaches a cruel vengeful God. To me there is no difference to this teaching and what Universalism teaches which claims without scripture support that God tortures all those who do not believe him into repentance until they worship him.

No difference?

Universalism teaches everyone will be saved.

ECT says that no one who suffers that will ever be saved.

Huge, huge, HUGE, difference!

Sorry, sir, but i don't see how you can say there is "no difference".
 
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FineLinen

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I do not believe in eternal conscious torment and think it is a false teaching that originated from the Roman Catholic Church that teaches a cruel vengeful God.

Dear Lover: We know you do not believe in ECT. What we would like to know is if you are in agreement with article 7 of your organization?
 
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Here come some of the ladies.

Sharon Baker

https://www.nomadpodcast.co.uk/nomad-60-sharon-baker-and-razing-hell/

Madeleine L'Engle

L'Engle was Episcopalian and believed in Christian universalism, which insisted that everyone will ultimately be saved by God. She meditated on religious issues in such books as And It Was Good: Reflections on Beginnings (1983). L'Engle also worked at St. John the Divine in New York City as a librarian and writer-in-residence for more than three decades.

TOP 25 QUOTES BY MADELEINE L'ENGLE (of 427) | A-Z Quotes

quote-we-do-not-draw-people-to-christ-by-loudly-discrediting-what-they-believe-by-telling-madeleine-l-engle-65-55-58.jpg


An interview with Ilaria Ramelli


Anne Bronte

One of the three famous Bronte sisters, Anne is remembered for being the most pious. Before she died from tuberculosis at the tender age of 29, Anne admitted to a faith in universalism, as the following poem and letter testify.

A Word to The 'Elect'

You may rejoice to think yourselves secure;
You may be grateful for the gift divine -
That grace unsought, which made your black hearts pure,
And fits your earth-born souls in Heaven to shine.

But, is it sweet to look around, and view
Thousands excluded from that happiness
Which they deserved, at least, as much as you, -
Their faults not greater, nor their virtues less?

And, wherefore should you love your God the more,
Because to you alone his smiles are given;
Because he chose to pass the many o'er,
And only bring the favoured few to Heaven?

And, wherefore should your hearts more grateful prove,
Because for ALL the Saviour did not die?
Is yours the God of justice and of love?
And are your bosoms warm with charity?

Say, does your heart expand to all mankind?
And, would you ever to your neighbor do -
The weak, the strong, the enlightened, and the blind -
As you would have your neighbor do to you?

And, when you, looking on your fellow-men,
Behold them doomed to endless misery,
How can you talk of joy and rapture then? -
May God withhold such cruel joy from me!

That none deserve eternal bliss I know;
Unmerited the grace in mercy given:
But, none shall sink to everlasting woe,
That have not well deserved the wrath of Heaven.

And, oh! there lives within my heart
A hope, long nursed by me;
(And, should its cheering ray depart,
How dark my soul would be!)

That as in Adam all have died,
In Christ shall all men live;
And ever round his throne abide,
Eternal praise to give.

That even the wicked shall at last
Be fitted for the skies;
And, when their dreadful doom is past,
To life and light arise.

I ask not, how remote the day,
Nor what the sinners' woe,
Before their dross is purged away;
Enough for me, to know

That when the cup of wrath is drained,
The metal purified,
They'll cling to what they once disdained,
And live by Him that died.

--Anne Bronte (1843)

Florence Nightingdale

Theology

Nightingale was a Christian universalist.

On 7 February 1837 – not long before her 17th birthday – something happened that would change her life: "God spoke to me", she wrote, "and called me to His service."

Hannah W. Smith

The Unselfishness of God and How I Discovered It (the missing chapters)

"Nothing can separate you from His love, absolutely nothing, neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature... We do not need to beg Him to bless us, He simply cannot help it. Therefore God is enough! God is enough for time, God is enough for eternity. God is enough!" -Hannah Whitall Smith-

Clara Barton (Founder Red Cross)

Although not formally a member of the Universalist Church of America in a 1905 letter to the widow of Carl Norman Thrasher, she identified herself with her parents' church as a "Universalist".

My dear friend and sister:

Your belief that I am a Universalist is as correct as your greater belief that you are one yourself, a belief in which all who are privileged to possess it rejoice. In my case, it was a great gift, like St. Paul, I "was born free", and saved the pain of reaching it through years of struggle and doubt.

My father was a leader in the building of the church in which Hosea Ballow preached his first dedication sermon. Your historic records will show that the old Huguenot town of Oxford, Mass. erected one of, if not the first Universalist Church in America. In this town I was born; in this church I was reared. In all its reconstructions and remodelings I have taken a part, and I look anxiously for a time in the near future when the busy world will let me once more become a living part of its people, praising God for the advance in the liberal faith of the religions of the world today, so largely due to the teachings of this belief.

Give, I pray you, dear sister, my warmest congratulations to the members of your society. My best wishes for the success of your annual meeting, and accept my thanks most sincerely for having written me.

Fraternally yours, (Signed) Clara Barton.

Clara Barton - Wikipedia
 
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