False Preachers/Teachers

[2PhiloVoid]

Hello bella! Good to hear from you, I hope you're well. Your comment about contracts is perhaps the point I'm making. Christian Contemporary Music is too worldly. It's more worldly than the world.

In a situation where a worship leader 'deconstructs' in secret because they don't want to lose the income stream. The church now has a worship leader (an important Spiritual position) who is an Atheist, could be any other religion, could be in a SS relationship or relationships but is masquerading as a believer, putting on a facade, a disguise, a deception. The church has little discernment, as long as the 'music' is hip enough they'll be naive enough to gyrate along because it's the experience they're looking for, the musical manipulation techniques that people confuse for 'anointing'. Character and truth are out the window.

The bible says that Satan himself can masquerade as an angel of light and the wolf in sheep's clothing that Jesus warned about has that sheep's clothing as a disguise. Popularity is a warning sign, not a recommendation. Jesus said that his teaching and his followers would not be popular, they would be persecuted!

IMHO Christian Contemporary Music is one of the main avenues that is being used to deceive and undermine the church in today's world.

God Bless You

I've addressed this issue in another thread. Needless to say, while I agree with you on some points, I do enjoy a small amount of CCM, and as with anyone who is seen to associate with Christianity, whether they are a musical group or a celebrity personality, I'm not going to simply broadbrush people with one or two tightly bound fundamentalistic criteria in the name of our Christian Discernment projects we all like to sally forth with.

I'm keeping my Stryper albums .......................... So there! Nyahhhhh!!!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Another false teaching was that of Ludwig Feuerbach. Feuerbach only professed to be a "friend of religion" but he wrote books such as the Essence of Christianity, which gave rise to "christian atheism". Basically he denied God's transcendence, and much of christian doctrine, but kept "christian love". 19th century forms of christianity still linger in some mainline churches. Rationalism can still be present in even congregations that think of themselves as evangelical. I think people can also end up reacting to it and going after the more dramatic and supernaturalistic forms of christianity, or else getting into New Age teachings.

Rejection of the authentic christian supernatural, leads to rationalistic christianity, and then eventually with some writers leads into occult mixtures, eg. the writings of Carl Jung or some of his disciples such as Morton Kelsey who promoted a synthesis of Jungian spirituality and Christian theology, far removed from the more orthodox reflections on Jung in the writings of Father Victor White.

Being that Ludwig Feuerbach wasn't a Christian, then it's also a no brainer for us to cite him as being problematic for the Christian faith.

And in addition to all else we can cite from his written works, it's a known fact that he was one of the influences upon the thinking of Karl Marx ---- y'know, Marx had as one of his famous socialistic quips, "Religion is the opium of the masses," and other such claptrap. That's where he drew his inspiration of disbelief.

 

[bèlla]

I've addressed this issue in another thread. Needless to say, while I agree with you on some points, I do enjoy a small amount of CCM, and as with anyone who is seen to associate with Christianity, whether they are a musical group or a celebrity personality, I'm not going to simply broadbrush people with one or two tightly bound fundamentalistic criteria in the name of our Christian Discernment projects we all like to sally forth with.

I'm keeping my Stryper albums .......................... So there! Nyahhhhh!!!

I think everyone must make their own decisions on what they like or what’s acceptable in spite of the absolutism some promote. Nor am I against CCM. We’re adults after all. ;-)

~bella

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think everyone must make their own decisions on what they like or what’s acceptable in spite of the absolutism some promote. Nor am I against CCM. We’re adults after all. ;-)

~bella

Well..................................... some of us consider ourselves adults. I'm still a kid at heart, mind you!

 

[Fervent]

Yes, Paul Washer teaches things contrary to Scripture which makes him a false teacher/ preacher. Thanks for sharing!
He's not as deep into the hole of false ones, but given he's teaching some things contrary to Scripture, he's headed that way.
We have to keep in mind that these people teach/preach a mixture of truth with error. that can be captivating for some who don't notice the error sprinkled through out.
Good point on them being another's servant.
It's been awhile since I've paid attention to Washer. What are some things from Washer you find to be contrary to Scripture?

Off the top of my head I can't pinpoint anything specific, but more a matter of his general obsession with wrath that misses the heart of God. The God he portrays is far removed from the gentle Father that mourns the wicked.

 

[timothyu]

Where we err is allowing their popularity to influence our opinion without doing our homework.

Like the people who instantly went mad when their names were called on price is Right

 

[Pepperdoodle]

Another false teaching was that of Ludwig Feuerbach. Feuerbach only professed to be a "friend of religion" but he wrote books such as the Essence of Christianity, which gave rise to "christian atheism". Basically he denied God's transcendence, and much of christian doctrine, but kept "christian love". 19th century forms of christianity still linger in some mainline churches. Rationalism can still be present in even congregations that think of themselves as evangelical. I think people can also end up reacting to it and going after the more dramatic and supernaturalistic forms of christianity, or else getting into New Age teachings.

Rejection of the authentic christian supernatural, leads to rationalistic christianity, and then eventually with some writers leads into occult mixtures, eg. the writings of Carl Jung or some of his disciples such as Morton Kelsey who promoted a synthesis of Jungian spirituality and Christian theology, far removed from the more orthodox reflections on Jung in the writings of Father Victor White.

Thank you for adding another name to the list.
I hadn't heard of Ludwig. It sounds like he's a false teacher also.

 

[Pepperdoodle]

Off the top of my head I can't pinpoint anything specific, but more a matter of his general obsession with wrath that misses the heart of God. The God he portrays is far removed from the gentle Father that mourns the wicked.

I like the way you said "the gentle Father that mourns the wicked".
I think that is part of the foundation of those of us who fight against dis/mis information and lies about things in spiritual and political areas. It mourns us to see and hear it all, so we speak out against it. None of us are perfect at doing so, but speak we should!!

 

[lismore]

I've addressed this issue in another thread. Needless to say, while I agree with you on some points, I do enjoy a small amount of CCM, and as with anyone who is seen to associate with Christianity, whether they are a musical group or a celebrity personality, I'm not going to simply broadbrush people with one or two tightly bound fundamentalistic criteria in the name of our Christian Discernment projects we all like to sally forth with.

Hello! Thank you for your reply. There was a movement in this country some years ago, scripture in song, putting bible verses to music. There were several advantages, it was a good way to memorize scripture, you didn't have to test the lyrics because being the word of God they were absolutely flawless. And the word of God being a free gift from God no-one could sell the lyrics. God Bless

 

[timothyu]

There was a movement in this country some years ago, scripture in song, putting bible verses to music.

The verses might not have been questionable, but the motives of many bands back in the day when the industry started was.

 

[lismore]

The verses might not have been questionable, but the motives of many bands back in the day when the industry started was.

It wasn't really bands as such, it was so simple that any church could do it. A bible verse and a well known copyright free tune and you've got a great, biblically sound chorus to sing. God Bless

 

[Soyeong]

Why must everyone follow what another does? If torah observance seems right to you then do it. But you can’t lay your preference on others.

~bella

Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). Being a follower of Christ is about being a follower of what Christ taught, not about doing whatever you prefer or whatever seems right to you. When we desire not to do something that God has commanded in the Torah or vice versa, then we have a choice about whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of what seems right to us by doing what is right in our own eyes or trusting in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying the Torah in all of our ways and He will make our way straight (Proverbs 3:1-7).

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus kept the entire Torah. Is circumcision still required to enter into to the New Covenant? Are we still expected to observe the dietary laws and sabbath days?

Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3) and refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45). The only way that we should cease to follow God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy would be if God were to cease to be holy.

 

[dms1972]

Thank you for adding another name to the list.
I hadn't heard of Ludwig. It sounds like he's a false teacher also.

Well, in that his books certainly had an influence amongst Christians in the 19th century that still lingers in some churches today, but he wasn't a preacher or a church leader.

J.A.T. Robinson was a clergyman whose in his writing also challenged traditional doctrines of God. I read one of his books earlier in life. Despite some of his views he was actually fairly conservative. Some of this sort of theology is more a reaction to other theology.

"J.A.T. Robinson was the first to throw out publicly the unused knick-knacks of a transcendental theology which had no obvious, or only very dubious, existential and social significance. According to the evident law by which one extreme always follows another in the history of theology, a proclamation of the world without God followed the proclamation of God without the world. Robinson's book initiated in church and theology a process that rapidly accelerated. The individual stages in this process are stations on the way by which theology is now pushing to a barely shrouded atheism". Klaus Bockmuehl - The Unreal God of Modern Theology

CS Lewis wrote a response to Robinson in his essay : Must our Image of God go?

On a positive note however Robinson supported early datings for the New Testament writings.


Another theologian I studied some of the writings of was Rudolph Bultmann. Bultmann perhaps hews closer to orthodox New Testament theology in his some of his books (eg. Theology of the New Testament). But in his other works however he carries on his program of demythologization.

Bultmann certainly tried to avoid the atheism of Feuerbach and the humanism of Herman Braun, and sought to construct an existential understanding of Christianity that he thought modern people could accept. However in his program of demythologization, he has removed the supernatural from the New Testament, and translated it into existential terms.

His view that modern people cannot believe in angels and miracles while believing in anti-biotics, or using electric lights, or the radio, is an assertion that need to be questioned. What does he mean? Why should there be an either / or here? I grant that a thorough-going modernist / rationalist / skeptic would dismiss angels and miracles, but is it true the other way, that someone holding a biblical world view (not the three-storey world view) cannot benefit from modern medical advances, or make use computers? Of course not. Why would an Incarnational worldview preclude use of these things?

So really unless there is some requirement to read Bultmann, i don't really recommend him. His view of faith tends towards a sort of solipsism.

CS Lewis tackled this sort of theology in another essay: Fernseed and Elephants.

Klaus Bockmeuhl also has written a helpful book on it called: The Unreal God of Modern Theology.

 

[dms1972]

Being that Ludwig Feuerbach wasn't a Christian, then it's also a no brainer for us to cite him as being problematic for the Christian faith.

And in addition to all else we can cite from his written works, it's a known fact that he was one of the influences upon the thinking of Karl Marx ---- y'know, Marx had as one of his famous socialistic quips, "Religion is the opium of the masses," and other such claptrap. That's where he drew his inspiration of disbelief.

Sure, I but I am looking at how certain earlier intrusions into christian thought can lead on to embracing other false teaching. I am persuaded, that when people after a time cannot live with christian rationalism, they progress towards semi-occultic, or outright occultic teachings, if they don't get a Christ-centred theology and spirituality.

 

[dms1972]

I've addressed this issue in another thread. Needless to say, while I agree with you on some points, I do enjoy a small amount of CCM, and as with anyone who is seen to associate with Christianity, whether they are a musical group or a celebrity personality, I'm not going to simply broadbrush people with one or two tightly bound fundamentalistic criteria in the name of our Christian Discernment projects we all like to sally forth with.

I'm keeping my Stryper albums .......................... So there! Nyahhhhh!!!

Don't have a Yellow and Black Attack.

I liked Stryper's Always There For You

They did manage to crossover in the 1980s (which I guess can be quite tough). I don't think Petra had the same success in mainstream rock (except perhaps for their Beat the System album?). Undercover's Balance of Power might be my favorite christian rock album from the 1980s.