The Fall feasts.

[ARBITER01]

Followers of the way were a part of judaism untill after the Pauls death though as Paul fought for the gentiles had no requirment to become proselytes.

No, you are saying one thing while scripture says another,..

1Co 9:20 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, not being myself under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1Co 9:21 to them that are without law, as without law, not being without law to God, but under law to Christ, that I might gain them that are without law.

Paul himself here, specifically says that he is under the new covenant, the law of Christ, not the law of moses.

 

[rick357]

No, you are saying one thing while scripture says another,..

Paul himself here, specifically says that he is under the new covenant, the law of Christ, not the law of moses.

I do not disagree with that...but the law of christ is a fulfillment of Moses law(as it was Gods law..not his own)....we can not seperate the manifested word from the word spoken and written by Moses...
If Jesus lives through you he does not disagree with himself.

 

[ARBITER01]

I do not disagree with that...but the law of christ is a fulfillment of Moses law(as it was Gods law..not his own)....we can not seperate the manifested word from the word spoken and written by Moses...
If Jesus lives through you he does not disagree with himself.

It is a "New" covenant, not a re-newed one. Jesus was specific about this.

 

[Frogster]

Frog you do realize you are teaching Marconianism right...which the church only decades removed from Pauls earthly ministry declared a heratic and his teachings as doctrin of demons....yet you hold to those teachings even if required to twist what is plainly written
That Paul kept judaism...drew his teachings from the law and prophets....considered himself a Pharisee even after he was converted...and kept feast days....though yes he taught it was not required.

No need to validate your Marconianism remark.:o


No, Acts 23:6, means he was of the resurrection DOCTRINE, THAT BELIEF, even Jesus was.That fits the context, he was saying I am of the resurrection, which was the theme if upper Acts, that he repeats later also.

23:6 Now when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. It is with respect to the hope and the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial.”


If Paul was still a pharisee, why fight them when they came to Antioch, to promote Judaism?





Acts 15:But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.


Why did he call it his FORMER life in Judaism in gal 1?


Why did he call his being a pharisee, and Judaistic credentials..poop?


Phil 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;



3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,


Here,. get yourself an Amplified, this is what the literal translations mean anyway...

Right from Paul, right after the Jewish calendar remark in 4:10-11, waste of time.l..




12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].


Sooooo,.you got some splainin to do!

How do feasts fit into all of this?

 

[Frogster]

Frog you do realize you are teaching Marconianism right...which the church only decades removed from Pauls earthly ministry declared a heratic and his teachings as doctrin of demons....yet you hold to those teachings even if required to twist what is plainly written
That Paul kept judaism...drew his teachings from the law and prophets....considered himself a Pharisee even after he was converted...and kept feast days....though yes he taught it was not required.

How could Paul be a practicing pharisee, and be the apostle to the gentiles, eating their food, fellowshipping with them etc?

Why were even the Jewish Christians in Antioch, living as Gentiles?

I got text to prove what I say..

Forget the feasts, read that verse, Gal 4:12.

 

[Frogster]

That would be incorrect my friend, here's why,..


He was not a part of Judaism anymore after his conversion, yet he still tried his hardest to win those under the law to the good news of Jesus.

Exactly.

 

[rick357]

It is a "New" covenant, not a re-newed one. Jesus was specific about this.

I agree here also...the ministration has changed

*[[2Co 3:6-11]] RNKJV*
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

What God calls righteousness has not changed
In the old we were the source of power but the law taught us we were slaves of sin and therefore death held us in bondage.
*[[Rom 8:1-4]] RNKJV*
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in the Messiah Yahushua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Messiah Yahushua hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, יהוה sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In the new we are not performing the law in any way...but we trust in Christ to live through us...and when he does then...
*[[Rom 1:16-18]] RNKJV*
For I am not ashamed of the glad tidings of the Messiah: for it is the power of יהוה unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of יהוה revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

For the wrath of יהוה is revealed from heaven against all wickedness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

The letter of the law had the glory of God hidden by the veil which covered it....so it was only seen as something to do.
Apon the death of Jesus that veil was torn and the truth and grace was revealed...God living in us one with us
The old man fashioned after Adam was crucified in Christ...the new man lives by the spirit as he puts all faith and reliance on Jesus to live through him

 

[Frogster]

Followers of the way were a part of judaism untill after the Pauls death though as Paul fought for the gentiles had no requirment to become proselytes.

How much Judaism could they be practicing Paul persecuted them. Besides, there were those under law in the temple that were believers, so what? 70 AD proved em all wrong, at best you show transitional times, stress, change, etc, things took time.

They were not exactly Jewish practicing to please Paul, right?



Acts 9:2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.


No feast keeping for Paul after conversion.

 

[Alithis]

A fellowship thread was started to discuss how some of us here may celebrate Rosh Hashanah. As we could all guess it was almost immediately derailed with the ironic accusation that the pagan winter solstice festival is freedom and the Biblical celebration of God coming to dwell with us in one of our temporary shelters, (like our bodies are), is wrong.

So I want to create a discussion thread for that purpose.

Here you go. Feel free to advocate your drunken, naked celebrations of the birth of the our star here. While that statement is a bit tongue in cheek, that IS what christmas really is. So raise a glass, whip out your credit card, go into debt and don't forget to mention Jesus somewhere in the process to make it a Christian celebration.

for one to feel a connection to the OT feasts does not show that they do not experience the love of Jesus it just shows that they show their love for Him differently. To argue something like that shows a total lack of understanding.

If you don't feel like taking part in the feasts don't no one is making you. Don't degrade the ones that feel a connection to GOD for doing show.

------------
how sad so many have taken a simple topic
of remembering both...the time God arrived as flesh and set up his dwelling among mankind
And a prophetic picture of the celebration of the harvest and the marriage supper of the lamb of God..

-and ungraciously turned it into an anti law debate.

makes me laugh..to oppose a celebratory festival which has nothing to do with works unto salvation but everything to do with Joying in the Lord...when at the very marriage supper of the lamb ..it is the very ,eternal, fulfillment of this festival we will be in the midst of.

 

[Frogster]

Followers of the way were a part of judaism untill after the Pauls death though as Paul fought for the gentiles had no requirment to become proselytes.

Is this not obvious by the fact that all the apostles kept temple worship in Jerusalem....do you think the jews would have allowed this if they considered them not jews...
Do you think Paul was lying when he claimed innocence against the charges brought against him of teaching that people should abandon Moses.

First,there were apostles barnabas, titus, timothy, etc, that travelled with Paul that were not in the jerusalem chuch, that is a fact. They did not practice Judaism or feasts.


Paul was innocent of the charges, they said so, he did not bring the greek into the temple.


No, Paul did not go around teaching apostasy, that is what FORSAKE moses means in Acts 21. You may want to understand the context, and what was going on there,. I have a long post about it, lemeee know if you want to read it, then you will understand the whole temple event better.

 

[Frogster]

The topic is OT Feasts. When people have kept to the topic, I believe that questions have been answered. This thread has taken off into all kinds of other directions, however the topic has been addressed from a Christian standpoint and we are to live the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

This congregation is Christian.

u go girl! 100%!

 

[Alithis]

Paul did not go around teaching apostasy... neither has any one on this thread

Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία (apostasia), "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy (or who apostatizes) is known as an apostate.
---------
how sad so many have taken a simple topic
of remembering both...the time God arrived as flesh and set up his dwelling among mankind
And a prophetic picture of the celebration of the harvest and the marriage supper of the lamb of God..

-and ungraciously turned it into an anti law debate.

makes me laugh..to oppose a celebratory festival which has nothing to do with works unto salvation but everything to do with Joying in the Lord...when at the very marriage supper of the lamb ..it is the very ,eternal, fulfillment of this festival we will be in the midst of.

 

[lismore]

LOL They do have a bit of an odor. I wonder if there will be an odor when we hear that trumpet (shofar) sound talked about in 1 Thess 4:16? What a day that will be.

Yes

But perhaps The Lord has solved the shofar odour issue somehow

 

[Alithis]

the "fall" feasts .. creates a seasonal dilemma ...speaking in humor..

where i am... its Spring

 

[rick357]

How could Paul be a practicing pharisee, and be the apostle to the gentiles, eating their food, fellowshipping with them etc?

Why were even the Jewish Christians in Antioch, living as Gentiles?

I got text to prove what I say..

Forget the feasts, read that verse, Gal 4:12.

What puprpose does the law serve in your understanding
Also I wish to make it clear this is not against you...what I write....I dont want you to stop trusting grace....if this becomes a matter of you against me I would stop....if you feel this way...
On to Paul in the verse you quote he could have said it is my belief in the resurection....why lie as you have him doing...yes be yes no be no....does the apostle who tells us liars do not inherate the kingdom of heaven now do evil that could may come.

 

[Alithis]

What puprpose does the law serve in your understanding
Also I wish to make it clear this is not against you...what I write....I dont want you to stop trusting grace....if this becomes a matter of you against me I would stop....if you feel this way...
On to Paul in the verse you quote he could have said it is my belief in the resurection....why lie as you have him doing...yes be yes no be no....does the apostle who tells us liars do not inherate the kingdom of heaven now do evil that could may come.

 

[Frogster]

What happens is, people get annoyed that the frog knows about Acts, so they will say, Paul was a pharisee even after conversion!

ahhhh..but then when we see the context, we see he was of that docrinal belief, in that sense he was a pharisee, on that belief system, fine, as the Lord was too. Was Jesus a pharisee?

Then I show the other verses to prove it.


A doctor might say, I am a doctor! Though retired, he is just saying he knows about something, he has an opinion on something, he can't unlearn that, but he actually is no longer a practicing doctor, who may still believe certain things, or may not believe certain things as he used too..

Hence, Paul was still of the same belief as the pharisees, and the resurrection, anyone can see chapter 23 was of that issue...so when he stood up, he basically all he was saying, was that he was of the resurrection.



Here we see a paste tense, he LIVED, that was the past, and the context bears it out, that was when he was a killer. Notice again, "god raises the dead" the pharisee belief system mentioned again, as also in 24, and 25.

5 since they have known about me for a long time, if they are willing to testify, that I lived as a Pharisee according to the strictest sect of our religion. 6 And now I am [c]standing trial for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers; 7 the promise to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly serve God night and day. And for this hope, O King, I am being accused by Jews. 8 Why is it considered incredible among you people if God does raise the dead?

9 “So then, I thought to myself that I had to do many things hostile to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 And this is [d]just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, but also when they were being put to death I cast my vote against them. 11 And as I punished them often in all the synagogues, I tried to force them to blaspheme; and being furiously enraged at them, I kept pursuing them even to foreign cities.

That all shows his past, as a pharisee, the killer, but yes, he still believed in the resurrection, but Paul was not a pharisee any more.



So lets be careful in Acts, one must really know the context of that book in particular, before grabbing Acts 23;6, and running with it..uh..uh..won't work.

alrighty now..

 

[rick357]

Frog has said he believes it is christ living through us....for some reason he cant see that christ will perform in him what is in the law...but if the foundation laid is christ then I am his brother regaurdless...the judgment seat of christ will prove our works....this is a countinuas act not a future event
So if our differance of understanding begins to cause ill feelings then I would rather cease and commit it to God...but if our dialogue can be continued as brothers then I will continue.

 

[rick357]

What happens is, people get annoyed that the frog knows about Acts, so they will say, Paul was a pharisee even after conversion!

ahhhh..but then when we see the context, we see he was of that docrinal belief, in that sense he was a pharisee, on that belief system, fine, as the Lord was too. Was Jesus a pharisee?

Then I show the other verses to prove it.

A doctor might say, I am a doctor! Though retired, he is just saying he knows about something, he has an opinion on something, he can't unlearn that, but he actually is no longer a doctor.

Hence, Paul was still of the same belief as the pharisees, and the resurrection, anyone can see chapter 23 was of that issue...so when he stood up, he basically all he was saying, was that he was of the resurrection.

Here we see a paste tense, he LIVED, that was the past, and the context bears it out, that was when he was a killer. Notice again, "god raises the dead" the pharisee belief system mentioned again, as also in 24, and 25.

5 since they have known about me for a long time, if they are willing to testify, that I lived as a Pharisee according to the strictest sect of our religion. 6 And now I am [c]standing trial for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers; 7 the promise to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly serve God night and day. And for this hope, O King, I am being accused by Jews. 8 Why is it considered incredible among you people if God does raise the dead?

9 “So then, I thought to myself that I had to do many things hostile to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 And this is [d]just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, but also when they were being put to death I cast my vote against them. 11 And as I punished them often in all the synagogues, I tried to force them to blaspheme; and being furiously enraged at them, I kept pursuing them even to foreign cities.

That all shows his past, as a pharisee, the killer, but yes, he still believed in the resurrection, but Paul was not a pharisee any more.

So lets be careful in Acts, one must really know the context of that book in particular, before grabbing Acts 23;6, and running with it..uh..uh..won't work.

alrighty now..

*[[Act 23:6]] RNKJV* But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Lived is not a past tense....If some would testifie they would say I've lived as a disciple od christ...
Not a past tense a description of how he has lived.
I am is presant tense.

 

[jiminpa]

I am not jewish so I am not "messianic" though I am a disciple of the Jews messiah....

You are not Messianic if you don't associate yourself with the Messianics. You can't be a Messianic Jew if you are not Jewish.