The Fall feasts.

[NannaNae]

It would look funny, all of theses little sheds, rammed together, you gotta admit that? It is ok to make a little joke now and then...

Will people fight for a good spot?

seriously though, there will be a space shortage, you must admit that.

And what if one is near the sad person, who had to be there, but did not want to be, that could be a bummer.

you don't know what you are talking about froggy!

 

[Frogster]

oh.

 

[Alithis]

the new will all have the same season.. and one time zone Jerusalem time.....

haha true.. i know.

 

[Alithis]

Frog has said he believes it is christ living through us....for some reason he cant see that christ will perform in him what is in the law...but if the foundation laid is christ then I am his brother regardless...the judgment seat of christ will prove our works....this is a continuous act not a future event
So if our difference of understanding begins to cause ill feelings then I would rather cease and commit it to God...but if our dialogue can be continued as brothers then I will continue.

our brother both views and expresses thing from an acute angel of reference..

 

[Alithis]

sooooooo....the feasts, were abolished, and that is that. Since God abolished them, as he did, who is man to resurrect the feasts? If God wanted us to keep them, the text would show, but what it does show, is not to keep em.

yes .they were abolished as a part of gaining righteousness through their observance ..
yet if some desire ,motivated by love,to enjoy them ,who is anyone to begrudge them that liberty in the grace of God to do so?

 

[rick357]

He became as a gentile, not a pharisee, not living under Judaism, don;t forget, soon he will say he died to the law in Gal 2:20...context my bro, context, the whole book is contextually streamlined!...

the context was, they, the church were trying to be Jewish, so Paul is saying he became as a gentile, why are you all trying to be Jewish?.

By the way, why were the Jewish Christians in Antioch, living as gentiles?

Get an Amplified...

12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].

*[[2Ti 3:14-17]] RNKJV*
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Yahushua the Messiah.

All scripture is given by inspiration of יהוה, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of יהוה may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

*[[Gal 4:30-31]] RNKJV*

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

At the time Paul told these things to Timothy OT was the scripture....also Timothy's mother was a jew what he had learned from his youth was OT....Paul concludes all scripture as being for righteousness, reproof, doctrine,and correction.

 

[Frogster]

*[[2Ti 3:14-17]] RNKJV*
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Yahushua the Messiah.

All scripture is given by inspiration of יהוה, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of יהוה may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

*[[Gal 4:30-31]] RNKJV*

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

At the time Paul told these things to Timothy OT was the scripture....also Timothy's mother was a jew what he had learned from his youth was OT....Paul concludes all scripture as being for righteousness, reproof, doctrine,and correction.

I know it was OT scripture, as he used the bondwoman one to get the law teachers out, and the 2 tim verse was OT, but not about law, if you read the verse before it says what it was about, faith, (red above) not law, so both of your references you posted are not supporting your argument. Yes, Sure Paul used the OT, look at Romans 4, big time, it was about the imputation of righteousness, without law, without circumcision, sooooo..


Hab 2:4, the watchword of the reformation, "the just shall live by faith", that is an OT reference used 3 rimes in the NT, Rom 1:17, Gal 3:11, Heb 10:38, but it was about faith, not feast promotion!

 

[murjahel]

*[[2Ti 3:14-17]] RNKJV*
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Yahushua the Messiah.

All scripture is given by inspiration of יהוה, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of יהוה may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

*[[Gal 4:30-31]] RNKJV*

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

At the time Paul told these things to Timothy OT was the scripture....also Timothy's mother was a jew what he had learned from his youth was OT....Paul concludes all scripture as being for righteousness, reproof, doctrine,and correction.

Yes, it is 'all Scripture' that is given, and it still applies.

The law taught us something and still teaches us... What once was to be obeyed and was too difficult for any to do and succeed, is now natural for the born again, redeemed, empowered saint. We may fail the law, in weakness, but now the Lamb of sacrifice for sins, is already provided.

Also, the feasts taught us shadow truths, and now in the new covenant, the old covenant is still valuable, the feasts are observed for their fulfillment message, not as a means of salvation.

To miss seeing the great truths of the O.T., and to deny their message indicates to me that one has missed the truths of the new covenant too.

The Old Testament was given to the Jewish people for they were chosen to be the missionaries to the rest of the world. They failed in that, and now the 'church' of Gentiles and Jews, are given that same message.

It is not the Old Testament message that is faulty, but the Jews wanted to keep it all for themselves. We still have many shadow truths in the O.T., that we need to preach to this fulfillment time of the shadows.

 

[Frogster]

Yes, it is 'all Scripture' that is given, and it still applies.

The law taught us something and still teaches us... What once was to be obeyed and was too difficult for any to do and succeed, is now natural for the born again, redeemed, empowered saint. We may fail the law, in weakness, but now the Lamb of sacrifice for sins, is already provided.

Also, the feasts taught us shadow truths, and now in the new covenant, the old covenant is still valuable, the feasts are observed for their fulfillment message, not as a means of salvation.

To miss seeing the great truths of the O.T., and to deny their message indicates to me that one has missed the truths of the new covenant too.

The Old Testament was given to the Jewish people for they were chosen to be the missionaries to the rest of the world. They failed in that, and now the 'church' of Gentiles and Jews, are given that same message.

It is not the Old Testament message that is faulty, but the Jews wanted to keep it all for themselves. We still have many shadow truths in the O.T., that we need to preach to this fulfillment time of the shadows.

But in the all scripture verse, it was about faith in Christ, if you read the verse before you will see it, "the writings', Paul was not about feast promotion or law promotion, you ignore salvation history.

2 Tim 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.





Paul also told that same Tim, in 1 Tim 1, to keep the law teachers out of his church, and in Eph, where Tim was an elder, he said the law was abolished, and he told Tim food abstinance was a doctrine of demons.

There we go, more for Tim.

 

[rick357]

I know it was OT scripture, as he used the bondwoman one to get the law teachers out, and the 2 tim verse was OT, but not about law, if you read the verse before it says what it was about, faith, (red above) not law, so both of your references you posted are not supporting your argument. Yes, Sure Paul used the OT, look at Romans 4, big time, it was about the imputation of righteousness, without law, without circumcision, sooooo..

Hab 2:4, the watchword of the reformation, "the just shall live by faith", that is an OT reference used 3 rimes in the NT, Rom 1:17, Gal 3:11, Heb 10:38, but it was about faith, not feast promotion!

Again context....Galatians is written to those who seek to be justified by the law....as we both know that is not possible....it is Jesus death and our placement in that death which justifies us.
But righteosness comes from his resurrection and that same spirit that raised him living in us ... When that sporit lives through us he does those things found in the law.

When you read
*[[Joh 1:17]] RNKJV* For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Yahushua the Messiah.
You see replacement....but that is not there....Moses told us what was right...but the gift to live it and the truth of what was said is through Jesus the anointed of God.

 

[Frogster]

Yes, it is 'all Scripture' that is given, and it still applies.

The law taught us something and still teaches us... What once was to be obeyed and was too difficult for any to do and succeed, is now natural for the born again, redeemed, empowered saint. We may fail the law, in weakness, but now the Lamb of sacrifice for sins, is already provided.

Also, the feasts taught us shadow truths, and now in the new covenant, the old covenant is still valuable, the feasts are observed for their fulfillment message, not as a means of salvation.

To miss seeing the great truths of the O.T., and to deny their message indicates to me that one has missed the truths of the new covenant too.

The Old Testament was given to the Jewish people for they were chosen to be the missionaries to the rest of the world. They failed in that, and now the 'church' of Gentiles and Jews, are given that same message.

It is not the Old Testament message that is faulty, but the Jews wanted to keep it all for themselves. We still have many shadow truths in the O.T., that we need to preach to this fulfillment time of the shadows.

Most know that there are truths, analogies, images, types, symbols etc, in the OT.

But you ignore the simple truth, Paul fought this stuff off the church, because mainly, he feared the bondage, the dynamic principle behind this teaching. Yes, there are prohecies in the OT too, yup...


But why did Paul write emphatically what he did, against those who were promoting Judaism, to grow by?

 

[Frogster]

Again context....Galatians is written to those who seek to be justified by the law....as we both know that is not possible....it is Jesus death and our placement in that death which justifies us.
But righteosness comes from his resurrection and that same spirit that raised him living in us ... When that sporit lives through us he does those things found in the law.

When you read
*[[Joh 1:17]] RNKJV* For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Yahushua the Messiah.
You see replacement....but that is not there....Moses told us what was right...but the gift to live it and the truth of what was said is through Jesus the anointed of God.

But it contains spiritual words, like loosing freedom, and being in bondage, as I have said countless times.

They were running well, in 5:7, spiritually, until the law people came who wanted to add feasts for growth, read 3:3, perfecting through the flesh, trying to mature by Judaism, so lets not ignore the spiritual ramifications, and dynamics, and why Paul feared this stuff creeping in hid churches.

 

[jiminpa]

Yet there are gentiles in the MJ movement. Which by the way, why isn't it called Messianic Christianity?

Anyway, I am enjoying the feast thread, glad you started it, thanks, frog.

It is not generally called Messianic Christianity, because too many Jews have been trained to consider Christianity a persecutor, and the name would become divisive.

 

[rick357]

Most know that there are truths, analogies, images, types, symbols etc, in the OT.

But you ignore the simple truth, Paul fought this stuff off the church, because mainly, he feared the bondage, the dynamic principle behind this teaching. Yes, there are prohecies in the OT too, yup...

But why did Paul write emphatically what he did, against those who were promoting Judaism, to grow by?

*[[Exo 33:11-14]] RNKJV*
And יהוה spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

And Moses said unto יהוה, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found favour in my sight.

Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find favour in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.

And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

If you missed it...this is where Paul draws law of the spirit of life....but notice this was spoken directly by God

*[[Joh 1:14]] RNKJV* And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

We beheld his glory....like the glory that shown from Moses face when God spoke the law to him....which was hidden behind a vale untill it was manifested....though it is still hidden to some.

*[[Joh 14:6-11]] RNKJV* Yahushua saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Rabbi, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Yahushua saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Has the Father changed his word....did he in times past bear false witness....can one thing he said be wrong....no.... His Word is immutable....the jews didnt make up his word but you act like because they did not fully understand it Gods word is done away with....your fight is not against Jews or law keepers....you are wrestling with God....but if a supplanter holds on and wont stop he resieves a blessing when his own streangth becomes crippled.

 

[rick357]

But it contains spiritual words, like loosing freedom, and being in bondage, as I have said countless times.

They were running well, in 5:7, spiritually, until the law people came who wanted to add feasts for growth, read 3:3, perfecting through the flesh, trying to mature by Judaism, so lets not ignore the spiritual ramifications, and dynamics, and why Paul feared this stuff creeping in hid churches.

Does it say add feast for growth....and that has not been said here....learn what we are taught about our lord by the teaching of the feast....our actions dont impress him but a heart that desires to know him is loved

 

[rick357]

But it contains spiritual words, like loosing freedom, and being in bondage, as I have said countless times.

They were running well, in 5:7, spiritually, until the law people came who wanted to add feasts for growth, read 3:3, perfecting through the flesh, trying to mature by Judaism, so lets not ignore the spiritual ramifications, and dynamics, and why Paul feared this stuff creeping in hid churches.

If you try to be justified by keeping law you trust in you to perform so the spirit of christ prophets you nothing....and you are still a slave of sin in your own power...so bondage comes...loose freedom....the law shows you your bondage to sin and drives you to your only answer Jesus and his spirit living through you...the law is not the problem you are....but by your answer I suspect you know these things but they dont benifit your position

 

[murjahel]

2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

In verse 15 we see the words 'holy scriptures' which is the translation of
ιερα γραμματα (hieros grammata) meaning 'holy words spoken of God' and refers more to the nature of 'each word'.

In verse 16, we find a more common word used for the Bible, it is 'graphe' γραφη and refers to the books that are made up of the 'holy words'.

John 5:47 uses the word 'grammata' referring to the writings of Moses:
"But if ye believe not his writings (grammata), how shall ye believe My words?"

So both words in II Timothy refer to the Written Word of God, but one refers to the fact that each word, each letter even is inspired by God, and the other refers to the fact that the completed books are by His inspiration. There is no doubt to the fact that Paul is referring to Old Testament, as well as to New Testament writings, for Paul speaks of the writings that Timothy had heard taught by his mother, which could not have been the New Testament, for it was not written while Timothy was still a child.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

It is not generally called Messianic Christianity, because too many Jews have been trained to consider Christianity a persecutor, and the name would become divisive.

And what facts do you have to substantiate that opinion? Or are you making this up as you go?
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[Shimshon]

And what facts do you have to substantiate that opinion? Or are you making this up as you go?

No, he's giving a very accurate description of how Messianic Jews feel about being 'converted' to (Marcionic) Christianity.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

No, he's giving a very accurate description of how Messianic Jews feel about being 'converted' to (Marcionic) Christianity.

That wasn't the question.

The question was: Why is it called Messanic Judaism?
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/