• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

The Eye of Zeus

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Agonaces of Susa, Apr 21, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Deimos and Phobos are moons. Why do you think moons are mythological?

    Sorry pal, but even Jonathan Swift knew that Mars had two moons before 1877.

    "They have likewise discovered two lesser stars, or satellites, which revolve about Mars ...." -- Jonathan Swift, author, 1726
     
  2. CaliforniaSun

    CaliforniaSun Well-Known Member

    +41
    Atheist
    Private
    I'm Batman!
     
  3. Ar Cosc

    Ar Cosc I only exist on the internet

    +111
    Atheist
    Private
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    I know it's hard for you, but if you try really hard, I'm sure you'll be able to get your head around the fact that some people don't think that the characters in Greek mythology, and the celestial bodies named after them, are one and the same.

    You also didn't answer my question about features on Phobos being named after characters in Gulliver's Travels. Does this mean that Lilliput is a real place, filled with tiny people?

    You have raised quote mining to an art form. This quote is from Gulliver's Travels, a work of fiction. Swift made it up, and just happened to get the number right, possibly influenced by Kepler's hypothesis that since earth had one known moon, and Jupiter four, Mars must logically have two. They weren't called Phobos and Deimos in this book, and Swift gave specific information about the characteristics of these two fictional moons, which were completely different to the actual characteristics of Mars' satellites.



    I also notice you completely ignored this part of my post:

     
  4. Delphiki

    Delphiki Well-Known Member

    +140
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    They are planets. The same way Saturn and Mercury are also cars. Might as well say they foresaw the piston rings in a Saturn coupe. The planets were named after the gods -- not the other way around. Please tell me you're not that dense.
     
  5. CaliforniaSun

    CaliforniaSun Well-Known Member

    +41
    Atheist
    Private
    Hey Delphiki, regarding your sig;

    I heard a gentlemen on YouTube (I think), who stated that he called Harold's radio program, and offered to donate $10k to the ministry, with one caveat. If May 21 came and went without incidence, he wanted his money back plus ten percent. Harold politely declined. ^_^
     
  6. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Let me guess: you think you evolved from a bat?
     
  7. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    According to you, Phobos wasn't discovered until 1877. Therefore, according to you, that is quite impossible.

    LOL.

    Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars, are real and I can guarantee you Jonathan swift did not make them up. If you add them together there number equals two.

    "So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  8. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    I agree. Perhaps you should inform Ar Cosc and the other astrolatry deniers?

    So you think the planets were named after the cars?
     
  9. Snow Phoenix

    Snow Phoenix Member

    182
    +5
    Humanist
    Single
    Who would ever think that? :confused:
     
  10. Delphiki

    Delphiki Well-Known Member

    +140
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    What the heck is astrolatry?

    Um. No. You're surely not serious.

    Just in case:

    The planets were very much discovered before the cars were made and the gods of the same namesakes were concocted very much WAY before the planets were discovered. Mercury (the automaker) was named after the god. Saturn (the automaker) was probably named after the planet, considering the logo - but may have been named after the god -- I'm really not sure. Either way, the planets were definitely not named after the cars. I suppose you are admitting how dense you are?

    (edit: Just looked it up. Apparently "astrolatry" is a real word. No. I do not follow "astrolatry".)
     
  11. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET IN GOD WE TRUST Supporter

    +42,065
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    [Devil's advocate]

    Hey, bro, I too have heard this before; and I've heard that the explanation lies in the fact that -- back then -- scientists taught that the number of moons doubled, starting with the earth.

    Thus the earth has one, Mars two, Jupiter four, and Saturn eight.

    Jonathan Swift gave names to the two that Mars had and scientists, ever enamored by themselves and the occult, adopted those names.

    [/Devil's advocate]
     
  12. CaliforniaSun

    CaliforniaSun Well-Known Member

    +41
    Atheist
    Private
    Why do you deny the existence of bats?
     
  13. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Seriously?

    You're arguing against its existence and yet you don't even know what it is: http://www.christianforums.com/t7554036-2/#post57314124

    You claim that the planets did not exist until they were named by the Romans?

    Have you ever heard of Babylonian, Egyptian, Canaanite, or Greek civilizations?

    Babylonian Planets
    Nabu = Mercury
    Ishtar = Venus
    Nergal = Mars
    Marduk = Jupiter
    Ninurta = Saturn

    "It is not easy [for some people] to understand the idea which was the basis for the identification of the Babylonian gods with the planets." -- Peter Jensen, author, 1890

    "The great temple [of Babylon] was the symbolization of Babylonian mythology. The seven platforms were dedicated to the seven planets." -- John C. Ridpath, historian, History of the World, 1894

    "The Babylonians were planet worshippers." -- Drusilla D. Houston, historian, Wonderful Ethiopians of the Ancient Cu[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]e Empire, Chapter XIII: The Civilization of Babylonia, 1926
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  14. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Source?

    If scientists did think that, it's because they observed the moons of the planets.

    Homer even observed Iapetus, the third largest moon of Saturn.

    "This is the way it is fated to be; and for you and your anger
    I [Jupiter] care not; not if you stray apart to the undermost limits
    of earth and sea, where Iapetos and Kronos [Saturn] seated
    have no shining of the sun god Hyperion to delight them
    nor winds delight, but Tartaros [outerspace] stands deeply about them
    ."
    -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, VIII:477-481, 8th century B.C.

    "There is said to be distinct evidence that they [Babylonians] observed the four satellites of Jupiter, and strong reason to believe that they were acquainted likewise with the seven satellites of Saturn. ... strange as it may seem to us ... the Babylonians possessed optical instruments of the nature of telescopes, since it is impossible, even in the clear and vapor-less sky of Chaldaea, to discern the faint moons of that distant planet [Saturn] without lenses. A lens, it must be remembered, with a fair magnifying power, has been discovered amongst the Mesopotamian ruins." -- George Rawlinson, historian, The Seven Great Monarchies of the Eastern World, Volume 4: Babylon, 1862-67

    Jonathan Swift did nothing more than read Homer and point a telescope at heaven.

    "So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.
     
  15. Ar Cosc

    Ar Cosc I only exist on the internet

    +111
    Atheist
    Private
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    Correct. But I wasn't asking about my opinion, I already know what my opinon is, I wanted to know yours.

    Yes, Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars are real. Deimos and Phobos, the two fictional (non moon) figures from mythology are not. Neither are the the two fictional moons with completely different characteristics to Phobos and Deimos from Gulliver's Travels.

    I notice you still haven't responded to my questions about Pluto and Uranus, so I'll ask them again:

    When Pluto was discovered and named in 1930, do you think astronomers believed they had discovered the God of the Underworld in outer space?

    How would Gaia (the earth), become impregnated by Uranus, and then give birth to Cronus (Saturn), especially as Saturn is 95 times the mass of the earth?
     
  16. Snow Phoenix

    Snow Phoenix Member

    182
    +5
    Humanist
    Single
    Funny how not a single person who isn't a creationist (and Hovind fan) believes that.
     
  17. Ar Cosc

    Ar Cosc I only exist on the internet

    +111
    Atheist
    Private
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    Perfect AoS logic, I take my hat off to you sir!
     
  18. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    You already know my opinion. It is posted above.

    Homer and Swift observed the moons of Mars with a telescope.

    "So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.

    Similarly the moons of Saturn.

    "This is the way it is fated to be; and for you and your anger
    I [Jupiter] care not; not if you stray apart to the undermost limits
    of earth and sea, where Iapetos and Kronos [Saturn] seated
    have no shining of the sun god Hyperion to delight them
    nor winds delight, but Tartaros [outerspace] stands deeply about them
    ."
    -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, VIII:477-481, 8th century B.C.

    "There is said to be distinct evidence that they [Babylonians] observed the four satellites of Jupiter, and strong reason to believe that they were acquainted likewise with the seven satellites of Saturn. ... strange as it may seem to us ... the Babylonians possessed optical instruments of the nature of telescopes, since it is impossible, even in the clear and vapor-less sky of Chaldaea, to discern the faint moons of that distant planet [Saturn] without lenses. A lens, it must be remembered, with a fair magnifying power, has been discovered amongst the Mesopotamian ruins." -- George Rawlinson, historian, The Seven Great Monarchies of the Eastern World, Volume 4: Babylon, 1862-67

    There is no difference between them.

    Deimos = Deimos

    Phobos = Phobos

    This contradicts your earlier statement that Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars, are real.

    Pluto wasn't discovered or named in 1930. Pluto is the Roman name for the Greek planet Hades.

    "Hades [Pluto] trembled where he rules over the dead below, and the Titans under Tartarus who live with Cronos [Saturn] ...." -- Hesiod, poet, Theogony, 8th century B.C.

    Are you referring to Hesiod?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  19. Agonaces of Susa

    Agonaces of Susa Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.

    +45
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
  20. Ar Cosc

    Ar Cosc I only exist on the internet

    +111
    Atheist
    Private
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    And your logic is deeply flawed. Why would the Phobos and Deimos of mythology be the same as the Phobos and Deimos orbiting Mars, and yet the people in Swift's works of fiction, and the surface features of the moons be different? You're applying inconsistent logic, if what you're using can be called logic at all.


    Where in the Iliad is it said that Deimos and Phobos are physical satellites of Mars, which is a planet? The planet was named after the god, the planet is not the god.

    Tartarus in Greek mythology lies below the underworld. It couldn't be less outer space.

    Even if this is true, and given your history of quote mining, I have my doubts, it is no evidence that the planets had god-like powers.

    Any evidence of this, apart from the fact that the men who discovered the moons in 1877 named them after characters from mythology?

    Incidentally, when Uranus was first discovered, it was actually named after King George III. Do you think the planet was literally King George III?


    No it doesn't. Jonathan Swift invented two moons of Mars for a fictional story, a story which also includes Lilliput, and Brondingnag. It is a coincidence that there happen to be two actual moons of Mars. I know you belive the darndest things, but, and let me stress this, not everybody thinks the same way you do.

    What has that quote got to do with anything? The name for Pluto was chosen by an 11 year old girl. What connection did she have with the ancient Greeks and their spaceships and nuclear weapons? How would she have known that Pluto was the literal god of the underworld? Also, underworld. What would the god of the underworld be doing so far away from the underworld's location, underground on earth?


    Yes. Are you denying the existence of Hesiod?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...