The Eye of Zeus

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Agonaces of Susa

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He called the mythological sons of Mars Deimos and Phobos.
Deimos and Phobos are moons. Why do you think moons are mythological?

The moons of the planet we now call Mars were named after these mythological figures in 1877.

Interestingly, features on Phobos are named after characters from Gulliver's Travels. Do you also believe Lilliput is a real place?
Sorry pal, but even Jonathan Swift knew that Mars had two moons before 1877.

"They have likewise discovered two lesser stars, or satellites, which revolve about Mars ...." -- Jonathan Swift, author, 1726
 
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CaliforniaSun

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Deimos and Phobos are moons. Why do you think moons are mythological?

Sorry pal, but even Jonathan Swift knew that Mars had two moons before 1877.

"They have likewise discovered two lesser stars, or satellites, which revolve about Mars ...." -- Jonathan Swift, author, 1726
I'm Batman!
 
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Ar Cosc

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Deimos and Phobos are moons. Why do you think moons are mythological?
I know it's hard for you, but if you try really hard, I'm sure you'll be able to get your head around the fact that some people don't think that the characters in Greek mythology, and the celestial bodies named after them, are one and the same.

You also didn't answer my question about features on Phobos being named after characters in Gulliver's Travels. Does this mean that Lilliput is a real place, filled with tiny people?

Sorry pal, but even Jonathan Swift knew that Mars had two moons before 1877.

"They have likewise discovered two lesser stars, or satellites, which revolve about Mars ...." -- Jonathan Swift, author, 1726
You have raised quote mining to an art form. This quote is from Gulliver's Travels, a work of fiction. Swift made it up, and just happened to get the number right, possibly influenced by Kepler's hypothesis that since earth had one known moon, and Jupiter four, Mars must logically have two. They weren't called Phobos and Deimos in this book, and Swift gave specific information about the characteristics of these two fictional moons, which were completely different to the actual characteristics of Mars' satellites.



I also notice you completely ignored this part of my post:

me said:
Now, Uranus was named in modern times, by people who didn't believe the same sort of twaddle you do. Is it not an astonishing coincidence that those people who were just looking for a nice name from the Greek Pantheon happened to choose Uranus' actual name as described in Hesiod? What are your opinions on Pluto? Do you think the 11 year-old who chose the name in 1930 believed that Tombaugh had found the literal Greek God of the Underworld?

And also, Uranus was Saturn's father in Roman mythology, and Gaia was his mother. How did Uranus impregnate the earth, and how does the Gaia (the earth) "give birth" to a planet 95 times her mass?
 
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Delphiki

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You claim Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are not planets?

They are planets. The same way Saturn and Mercury are also cars. Might as well say they foresaw the piston rings in a Saturn coupe. The planets were named after the gods -- not the other way around. Please tell me you're not that dense.
 
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CaliforniaSun

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They are planets. The same way Saturn and Mercury are also cars. Might as well say they foresaw the piston rings in a Saturn coupe. The planets were named after the gods -- not the other way around. Please tell me you're not that dense.
Hey Delphiki, regarding your sig;

I heard a gentlemen on YouTube (I think), who stated that he called Harold's radio program, and offered to donate $10k to the ministry, with one caveat. If May 21 came and went without incidence, he wanted his money back plus ten percent. Harold politely declined. ^_^
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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You also didn't answer my question about features on Phobos being named after characters in Gulliver's Travels. Does this mean that Lilliput is a real place, filled with tiny people?
According to you, Phobos wasn't discovered until 1877. Therefore, according to you, that is quite impossible.

This quote is from Gulliver's Travels, a work of fiction. Swift made it up, and just happened to get the number right
LOL.

Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars, are real and I can guarantee you Jonathan swift did not make them up. If you add them together there number equals two.

"So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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They are planets.
I agree. Perhaps you should inform Ar Cosc and the other astrolatry deniers?

The same way Saturn and Mercury are also cars.
So you think the planets were named after the cars?
 
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Delphiki

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I agree. Perhaps you should inform Ar Cosc and the other astrolatry deniers?

What the heck is astrolatry?

So you think the planets were named after the cars?

Um. No. You're surely not serious.

Just in case:

The planets were very much discovered before the cars were made and the gods of the same namesakes were concocted very much WAY before the planets were discovered. Mercury (the automaker) was named after the god. Saturn (the automaker) was probably named after the planet, considering the logo - but may have been named after the god -- I'm really not sure. Either way, the planets were definitely not named after the cars. I suppose you are admitting how dense you are?

(edit: Just looked it up. Apparently "astrolatry" is a real word. No. I do not follow "astrolatry".)
 
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Sorry pal, but even Jonathan Swift knew that Mars had two moons before 1877.

[Devil's advocate]

Hey, bro, I too have heard this before; and I've heard that the explanation lies in the fact that -- back then -- scientists taught that the number of moons doubled, starting with the earth.

Thus the earth has one, Mars two, Jupiter four, and Saturn eight.

Jonathan Swift gave names to the two that Mars had and scientists, ever enamored by themselves and the occult, adopted those names.

[/Devil's advocate]
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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What the heck is astrolatry?
Seriously?

You're arguing against its existence and yet you don't even know what it is: http://www.christianforums.com/t7554036-2/#post57314124

The planets were very much discovered before the cars were made and the gods of the same namesakes were concocted very much WAY before the planets were discovered.
You claim that the planets did not exist until they were named by the Romans?

Have you ever heard of Babylonian, Egyptian, Canaanite, or Greek civilizations?

Babylonian Planets
Nabu = Mercury
Ishtar = Venus
Nergal = Mars
Marduk = Jupiter
Ninurta = Saturn

"It is not easy [for some people] to understand the idea which was the basis for the identification of the Babylonian gods with the planets." -- Peter Jensen, author, 1890

"The great temple [of Babylon] was the symbolization of Babylonian mythology. The seven platforms were dedicated to the seven planets." -- John C. Ridpath, historian, History of the World, 1894

"The Babylonians were planet worshippers." -- Drusilla D. Houston, historian, Wonderful Ethiopians of the Ancient Cu[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]e Empire, Chapter XIII: The Civilization of Babylonia, 1926
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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[Devil's advocate]

Hey, bro, I too have heard this before; and I've heard that the explanation lies in the fact that -- back then -- scientists taught that the number of moons doubled, starting with the earth.

Thus the earth has one, Mars two, Jupiter four, and Saturn eight.
Source?

If scientists did think that, it's because they observed the moons of the planets.

Homer even observed Iapetus, the third largest moon of Saturn.

"This is the way it is fated to be; and for you and your anger
I [Jupiter] care not; not if you stray apart to the undermost limits
of earth and sea, where Iapetos and Kronos [Saturn] seated
have no shining of the sun god Hyperion to delight them
nor winds delight, but Tartaros [outerspace] stands deeply about them
."
-- Homeros, poet, Iliad, VIII:477-481, 8th century B.C.

"There is said to be distinct evidence that they [Babylonians] observed the four satellites of Jupiter, and strong reason to believe that they were acquainted likewise with the seven satellites of Saturn. ... strange as it may seem to us ... the Babylonians possessed optical instruments of the nature of telescopes, since it is impossible, even in the clear and vapor-less sky of Chaldaea, to discern the faint moons of that distant planet [Saturn] without lenses. A lens, it must be remembered, with a fair magnifying power, has been discovered amongst the Mesopotamian ruins." -- George Rawlinson, historian, The Seven Great Monarchies of the Eastern World, Volume 4: Babylon, 1862-67

Jonathan Swift gave names to the two that Mars had and scientists, ever enamored by themselves and the occult, adopted those names.
Jonathan Swift did nothing more than read Homer and point a telescope at heaven.

"So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.
 
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Ar Cosc

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According to you, Phobos wasn't discovered until 1877. Therefore, according to you, that is quite impossible.
Correct. But I wasn't asking about my opinion, I already know what my opinon is, I wanted to know yours.

LOL.

Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars, are real and I can guarantee you Jonathan swift did not make them up. If you add them together there number equals two.

"So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.

Yes, Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars are real. Deimos and Phobos, the two fictional (non moon) figures from mythology are not. Neither are the the two fictional moons with completely different characteristics to Phobos and Deimos from Gulliver's Travels.

I notice you still haven't responded to my questions about Pluto and Uranus, so I'll ask them again:

When Pluto was discovered and named in 1930, do you think astronomers believed they had discovered the God of the Underworld in outer space?

How would Gaia (the earth), become impregnated by Uranus, and then give birth to Cronus (Saturn), especially as Saturn is 95 times the mass of the earth?
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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Correct. But I wasn't asking about my opinion, I already know what my opinon is, I wanted to know yours.
You already know my opinion. It is posted above.

Homer and Swift observed the moons of Mars with a telescope.

"So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.

Similarly the moons of Saturn.

"This is the way it is fated to be; and for you and your anger
I [Jupiter] care not; not if you stray apart to the undermost limits
of earth and sea, where Iapetos and Kronos [Saturn] seated
have no shining of the sun god Hyperion to delight them
nor winds delight, but Tartaros [outerspace] stands deeply about them
."
-- Homeros, poet, Iliad, VIII:477-481, 8th century B.C.

"There is said to be distinct evidence that they [Babylonians] observed the four satellites of Jupiter, and strong reason to believe that they were acquainted likewise with the seven satellites of Saturn. ... strange as it may seem to us ... the Babylonians possessed optical instruments of the nature of telescopes, since it is impossible, even in the clear and vapor-less sky of Chaldaea, to discern the faint moons of that distant planet [Saturn] without lenses. A lens, it must be remembered, with a fair magnifying power, has been discovered amongst the Mesopotamian ruins." -- George Rawlinson, historian, The Seven Great Monarchies of the Eastern World, Volume 4: Babylon, 1862-67

Yes, Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars are real. Deimos and Phobos, the two fictional (non moon) figures from mythology are not.
There is no difference between them.

Deimos = Deimos

Phobos = Phobos

Neither are the the two fictional moons with completely different characteristics to Phobos and Deimos from Gulliver's Travels.
This contradicts your earlier statement that Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars, are real.

I notice you still haven't responded to my questions about Pluto and Uranus, so I'll ask them again:

When Pluto was discovered and named in 1930, do you think astronomers believed they had discovered the God of the Underworld in outer space?
Pluto wasn't discovered or named in 1930. Pluto is the Roman name for the Greek planet Hades.

"Hades [Pluto] trembled where he rules over the dead below, and the Titans under Tartarus who live with Cronos [Saturn] ...." -- Hesiod, poet, Theogony, 8th century B.C.

How would Gaia (the earth), become impregnated by Uranus, and then give birth to Cronus (Saturn), especially as Saturn is 95 times the mass of the earth?
Are you referring to Hesiod?
 
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Ar Cosc

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You already know my opinion. It is posted above.
And your logic is deeply flawed. Why would the Phobos and Deimos of mythology be the same as the Phobos and Deimos orbiting Mars, and yet the people in Swift's works of fiction, and the surface features of the moons be different? You're applying inconsistent logic, if what you're using can be called logic at all.


Homer and Swift observed the moons of Mars with a telescope.

"So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.
Where in the Iliad is it said that Deimos and Phobos are physical satellites of Mars, which is a planet? The planet was named after the god, the planet is not the god.

Similarly the moons of Saturn.

"This is the way it is fated to be; and for you and your anger
I [Jupiter] care not; not if you stray apart to the undermost limits
of earth and sea, where Iapetos and Kronos [Saturn] seated
have no shining of the sun god Hyperion to delight them
nor winds delight, but Tartaros [outerspace] stands deeply about them
."
-- Homeros, poet, Iliad, VIII:477-481, 8th century B.C.
Tartarus in Greek mythology lies below the underworld. It couldn't be less outer space.

"There is said to be distinct evidence that they [Babylonians] observed the four satellites of Jupiter, and strong reason to believe that they were acquainted likewise with the seven satellites of Saturn. ... strange as it may seem to us ... the Babylonians possessed optical instruments of the nature of telescopes, since it is impossible, even in the clear and vapor-less sky of Chaldaea, to discern the faint moons of that distant planet [Saturn] without lenses. A lens, it must be remembered, with a fair magnifying power, has been discovered amongst the Mesopotamian ruins." -- George Rawlinson, historian, The Seven Great Monarchies of the Eastern World, Volume 4: Babylon, 1862-67
Even if this is true, and given your history of quote mining, I have my doubts, it is no evidence that the planets had god-like powers.

There is no difference between them.

Deimos = Deimos

Phobos = Phobos
Any evidence of this, apart from the fact that the men who discovered the moons in 1877 named them after characters from mythology?

Incidentally, when Uranus was first discovered, it was actually named after King George III. Do you think the planet was literally King George III?


This contradicts your earlier statement that Deimos and Phobos, the moons of Mars, are real.
No it doesn't. Jonathan Swift invented two moons of Mars for a fictional story, a story which also includes Lilliput, and Brondingnag. It is a coincidence that there happen to be two actual moons of Mars. I know you belive the darndest things, but, and let me stress this, not everybody thinks the same way you do.

Correct.

"Hades [Pluto] trembled where he rules over the dead below, and the Titans under Tartarus who live with Cronos [Saturn] ...." -- Hesiod, poet, Theogony, 8th century B.C.
What has that quote got to do with anything? The name for Pluto was chosen by an 11 year old girl. What connection did she have with the ancient Greeks and their spaceships and nuclear weapons? How would she have known that Pluto was the literal god of the underworld? Also, underworld. What would the god of the underworld be doing so far away from the underworld's location, underground on earth?


Are you referring to Hesiod?

Yes. Are you denying the existence of Hesiod?
 
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