The evidence for Evolution.

[SteveB28]

There is another possible explanation for why the DNA we share with chimpanzees show the same retrovirus insertion points. Creationists tell us that the commonalities of the various creatures are due to God's reuse of common components. So when God got around to making man, he used chimpanzee DNA in which retrovirus insertions had already occurred.

Hows that, Kenny?

And the second part of the equation?

The pattern of retroviral insertions within and between all of the OTHER primate species replicates perfectly the nested hierarchy that common ancestry would dictate. His god would wish to deceive us about those too....?

 

[Speedwell]

And the second part of the equation?

The pattern of retroviral insertions within and between all of the OTHER primate species replicates perfectly the nested hierarchy that common ancestry would dictate. His god would wish to deceive us about those too....?

Hey, give me a break. It's not easy trying to think up both sides of the argument.

 

[SteveB28]

Hey, give me a break. It's not easy trying to think up both sides of the argument.

Fair enough.......

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

If you have something to say, just say it, no need to involve me. I don't know if you are just making a statement of asking me a question? In the end, whether I agree with you or not, will that change your mind on anything?

Sure, I thought I had - so perhaps let me reword it then... We can see various things in this universe that contradict things in the Bible. The stories in the Bible can't really be verified, yet we can verify all these facts about our Universe that don't agree with these Biblical stories.

If you cared about believing in true things, why would you discard all the verifiable observations we have at hand for that one particular set of stories you've centered on that can't be verified?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Sure, I thought I had - so perhaps let me reword it then... We can see various things in this universe that contradict things in the Bible. The stories in the Bible can't really be verified, yet we can verify all these facts about our Universe that don't agree with these Biblical stories.

If you cared about believing in true things, why would you discard all the verifiable observations we have at hand for that one particular set of stories you've centered on that can't be verified?

Because these are verifiable observations made by people like yourself, people that set out to delude themselves and they do it. Happens all the time in every aspect of life. I've seen it. You may or may not be able to verify certain things, but conclusion drawn from the verification, is up to the individual. So the science that allows the verification is good, what people conclude form the verification is quite a different story, and very often depends upon agenda.

A lot like a murder mystery, we have the facts, and they ARE facts, then we have several people trying to solve the puzzle of what the facts point to.
The murderer has agenda, so he will conclude from the facts whatever it takes to throw people off his trail, and in extreme cases, getting caught or whatever, he will actually believe what is not real. Yet others are gullible and will believe that or whatever else anyone tells them, all depending on how convincing they are, or a combination of their own conclusion as well as others. Yet others want the truth, nothing more. They all find something different in the verifiable facts but only one is correct in what the facts lead too.

Contradict the Bible? Sorry but there is nothing there, it's a mirage, you just think the Bible has been contradicted. See the thing about deluding ourselves, and I was astonished to see this happen in certain instances having nothing to do with this in real life, is once they create their delusion or buy into someone else', they actually, really and truly believe it.

That said, there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise...unless something happens to jolt you out of it, that's it for you, but in the end, it was a conscious choice to create/believe as you will.

So, yeah, I actually do "care about believing in true things"...do you? or can you even, or is it too late and you have gotten so deeply in, it's impossible to get out? IDK.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Because these are verifiable observations made by people like yrself, ppl tht blah blah blahdy blah..........

So, yeah, I actually do "care about believing in true things"...do you? or can you even, or is it too late and you have gotten so deeply in, it's impossible to get out? IDK.

I'm always open to the evidence. Any case, if you say you are, then how can you say the bible's story about Adam and Eve is actual? All the genetic information we have tells us that there has never been one man and one woman at the beginning of humanity ever. In fact, we can trace our heritage to include pretty much all divergent forms of life on this planet. Deep time also disagrees with the Bible, there was never a world-wide flood, nor a wiping out of all but eight people and a pair of almost every animal on earth either. How do you reconcile that?

 

[SteveB28]

Because these are verifiable observations made by people like yourself, people that set out to delude themselves and they do it. Happens all the time in every aspect of life. I've seen it. You may or may not be able to verify certain things, but conclusion drawn from the verification, is up to the individual. So the science that allows the verification is good, what people conclude form the verification is quite a different story, and very often depends upon agenda.

A lot like a murder mystery, we have the facts, and they ARE facts, then we have several people trying to solve the puzzle of what the facts point to.
The murderer has agenda, so he will conclude from the facts whatever it takes to throw people off his trail, and in extreme cases, getting caught or whatever, he will actually believe what is not real. Yet others are gullible and will believe that or whatever else anyone tells them, all depending on how convincing they are, or a combination of their own conclusion as well as others. Yet others want the truth, nothing more. They all find something different in the verifiable facts but only one is correct in what the facts lead too.

Contradict the Bible? Sorry but there is nothing there, it's a mirage, you just think the Bible has been contradicted. See the thing about deluding ourselves, and I was astonished to see this happen in certain instances having nothing to do with this in real life, is once they create their delusion or buy into someone else', they actually, really and truly believe it.

That said, there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise...unless something happens to jolt you out of it, that's it for you, but in the end, it was a conscious choice to create/believe as you will.

So, yeah, I actually do "care about believing in true things"...do you? or can you even, or is it too late and you have gotten so deeply in, it's impossible to get out? IDK.

So, it is a "true thing" that coloured goats are bred by having the copulating parents stare at striped sticks, as your bible claims?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'm always open to the evidence. Any case, if you say you are, then how can you say the bible's story about Adam and Eve is actual? All the genetic information we have tells us that there has never been one man and one woman at the beginning of humanity ever. In fact, we can trace our heritage to include pretty much all divergent forms of life on this planet. Deep time also disagrees with the Bible, there was never a world-wide flood, nor a wiping out of all but eight people and a pair of almost every animal on earth either. How do you reconcile that?

I end up repeating this a lot here.

I go by what sounds more logical to me in the end. I look at the big picture and start there.

Created or just happened?

Your way sounds absolutely ridiculous to me, and the Biblical way makes perfect sense.

Why do people believe your way? Yes that has to be taken into consideration to. In many if not most cases, because they for whatever reason, would rather not acknowledge a God...the agenda I mentioned earlier.

In the end the choice is overwhelmingly simple to me.

 

[Kenny'sID]

So, it is a "true thing" that coloured goats are bred by having the copulating parents stare at striped sticks, as your bible claims?

Happy birthday, Steve.

 

[SteveB28]

Happy birthday, Steve.

Thank you. Another palindromic birthday....they come around too quickly.

 

[SteveB28]

I end up repeating this a lot here.

I go by what sounds more logical to me in the end. I look at the big picture and start there.

Created or just happened?

Your way sounds absolutely ridiculous to me, and the Biblical way makes perfect sense.

Why do people believe your way? Yes that has to be taken into consideration to. In many if not most cases, because they for whatever reason, would rather not acknowledge a God...the agenda I mentioned earlier.

In the end the choice is overwhelmingly simple to me.

It used to be that 'fire from the sky' 'just happening' sounded absolutely ridiculous to most people long ago. So they invented a god to explain it away.

Do you see how that works.....?



.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Thank you. Another palindromic birthday....they come around too quickly.

And the more we have the more quickly they seem to come around.

I don't think much of birthdays, and have even forgotten the day mine comes around. 3 or 4 years ago, not thinking to deeply on it, I miscalculated and made myself a year older and it stuck because I didn't catch it till much later. That helped a lot. To this day, I'm like, "is that all?" when the BD's come around.

Yes, I have my own delusions and I refuse to fight this one.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It used to be that 'fire from the sky' 'just happening' sounded absolutely ridiculous to most people long ago. So they invented a god to explain it away.

Do you see how that works.....?

I see how it works but still, one honestly sounds so much more logical to me...not even close to a toss up.

 

[SteveB28]

I see how it works but still, one honestly sounds so much more logical to me...not even close to a toss up.

You believe that a god throws lightning bolts down from the sky.....!??

 

[-57]

It used to be that 'fire from the sky' 'just happening' sounded absolutely ridiculous to most people long ago. So they invented a god to explain it away.

Do you see how that works.....?



.

Now they have exchanged that for the impossible.....evolutionism....overcoming the odds and generating information in DNA.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You believe that a god throws lightning bolts down from the sky.....!??

I believe he does whatever he see's fit to do. I've never seen him do that, but who knows?

 

[SteveB28]

I believe he does whatever he see's fit to do. I've never seen him do that, but who knows?

Let's be specific.......the god that mankind created to explain the phenomena of lightning and thunder was Thor.

You believe that Thor is the cause of these meteorological events....!?

Are you not aware that we now have perfectly good natural explanations for these things? Are you not aware that the laws of physics tell us why lightning strikes? Are you not aware that, with reasonable accuracy, we can predict when and where thunderstorms occur, because we understand the mechanisms involved...?

 

[SteveB28]

Now they have exchanged that for the impossible.....evolutionism....overcoming the odds and generating information in DNA.

No.....you folk who believe in the superstitious and the miraculous have followed in EXACTLY the same pattern....!

Don't understand how the complexity of living things developed...? No problem, just invent a god to do it......

 

[pat34lee]

I'm not expecting a very substantive answer, but perhaps you can explain a few things to me.
1. Why do whales have a broken gene package for hind legs if they didn't evolve from terrestrial ancestors?
2. Why do all primates, including humans, share a broken GULO gene?
3. Why do humans and chimpanzees share 203,000 endogenous retroviral insertions?

That should be more than enough for now.

1, 2, 3. Who says any of those are 'broken' or added, and not necessary
for some function during the life cycle?

This is how the belief in evolution leads to science being stifled, because
who wants to check leftover DNA or vestigial organs that obviously (only
to evolutionists though) do nothing any more. That is the problem when
they know 1% of what makes us tick, but believe they know 90%.

 

[SteveB28]

1, 2, 3. Who says any of those are 'broken' or added, and not necessary
for some function during the life cycle?

This is how the belief in evolution leads to science being stifled, because
who wants to check leftover DNA or vestigial organs that obviously (only
to evolutionists though) do nothing any more. That is the problem when
they know 1% of what makes us tick, but believe they know 90%.

You do realise that, by answering those very questions and more, that the scientific process has arrived at our current understanding?

Now, if you have additional/alternative evidence which would provide a different understanding, you should present it....!