The evidence for Evolution.

[Kenny'sID]

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or am I conversing with a 14 year old?

No, the 14yr old I'm speaking too simply does not make it know exactly what he wants, nor does he answer pertinent questions, and once he does, we can move on. I need to know what all you said means to you, what does it prove or even suggest, and I need to know for a reason.

If you are simply going to say it suggests evolution exists, you already know my alternative. So I have to think you are going somewhere else with this, otherwise it's the same ol' same ol'. Or is my obvious alternative really the answer you expect?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Let me be a little more clear with my thoughts on this.

This did not start out to be a conspiracy by man/Darwin, however it is a conspiracy by Satan. that should not be a surprise to us as Satan is into that type thing, or getting us to not believe in God. In this case, he offered an alternative.


It started with Darwins "theory" and what a few still see as theory, but is fast becoming accepted fact, just as was expected. All carried out by doing it in bits and pieces and over much time so those with weak or no faith could not put it all together. It was to sneak up on us quietly, over time, and it did.

first, Darwin's announcement over 100yrs ago. then the announcement becoming accepted more an more over time. Then Christians being convinced it could fit right into Christianity. Slowly but surely it has evolved just as was intended. Next, and it's already happening, the Christians will dump more of the bible as not fact...creation turned out not to be fact so why believe in other parts of the bible? Until finally, God is dropped altogether by some, then those, and those who never wanted anything to do with faith to begin with will continue to push it to the point, you have to be an idiot to believe such fairy tales like creation (sound familiar)

Plan complete.

End result, Satan gains just exactly what he set out to, but I would guess, God allowed it, and for good reason. That being, because mans faith needs to be tested so he can separate those that are truly his to the end, from those that are not. The Atheists, though lost already, still have a role in this, they give it momentum, and keep the momentum going throughout the deception.

Does that really surprise some of you Christians?

All evolutionists have is what they call fact/theory and the fact that any solid proof of that is all hidden in time and we'll just have to accept it because all kinds of so-called evidence *must* equate to fact. When in reality, no amount of wrong/contrived/with agenda evidence equals the tiniest bit of fact. Way too much wrong with that picture.

All Christians have is a universe that needs explaining, a universe that is so complex we have not even begun to unlock it's mysteries. Then we have to decide, what are the odds all that just happened without it being created?

As I keep saying, I have never seen anything come to be unless it was created, so to me the answer is easy, and that evidence alone overwhelmingly points to God, not big bang or evolution. And all that can be decided even before one looks at Gods word that in turn, drives it all home perfectly.

.....sooooo, it couldn't just be that the observable facts here in reality don't match your interpretation of your bible?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That's ok, it makes sense you would not. I guess it's already clear I absolutely do..so...

Ok. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree for the moment ...

 

[Kenny'sID]

Ok. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree for the moment ...

I can do that.

 

[Kenny'sID]

sooooo, it couldn't just be that the observable facts here in reality don't match your interpretation of your bible?

And?

I mean, that's obvious.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have never heard of anyone who believes Jesus was a great ape,

QV please: 16

Now you have.

Like I said: ask them.

You might be surprised.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Not sure who here made the claim but Atheists love the "science proves nothing" line, but fact is, you are correct with you rat dissection, it proved beyond a doubt, all you said it did. Yet the Atheist or even evolutionists, because they need what they say to be a fact in order to further their agenda, will argue there is no proof available through science still.

This particular claim makes me laugh as much as them changing definitions to fit their needs.

Like I always say: Atheists say the darnedest things.

I'll take this - you're both fronting a straw man on this. Typically, you're finding an answer for your observation and then making the question to get to that. This isn't how science works. Is it possible to find something in a circulatory system that pumps blood that isn't called a heart? After all, we've already defined a heart to be something in a circulatory system that generally pumps blood. so this "I can see a heart, therefore..... Circulation" analogy isn't really any good.

A better analogy might be, say, making the observation that animals have hearts and circulatory systems because that's what we keep seeing. We can't say that rat dissection proves that all animals have a heart, at best it can only be a tentative fact, not a proven fact because you haven't dissected all animals. Otherwise, one day you'd get to a Jellyfish & find out that there's no heart (nor brains, nor gills, etc.) which obviously falsifies such a "proven fact".

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

And?

I mean, that's obvious.

....And therefore Occams Razor would simply say that a book like a bible is at best a collection of mostly parables rather than saying instead that snakes & donkeys talk, earth is flat & 6,000 years old, an undemonstratable worldwide flood occurred, a deity exists and hides from us in every way we could verify he exists, and All our observable points of data collected over centuries by countless scientists of one form or another in multiple and independent fields of scientific inquiry, etc. are all somehow wrong... no?

 

[SteveB28]

No, the 14yr old I'm speaking too simply does not make it know exactly what he wants, nor does he answer pertinent questions, and once he does, we can move on. I need to know what all you said means to you, what does it prove or even suggest, and I need to know for a reason.

If you are simply going to say it suggests evolution exists, you already know my alternative. So I have to think you are going somewhere else with this, otherwise it's the same ol' same ol'. Or is my obvious alternative really the answer you expect?

I have given you an answer - namely, that the evidence of ERVs points to common ancestry.

And you squirm and wriggle away from the opportunity to suggest an alternative.

Very telling.....

 

[Kenny'sID]

This is just the same junk y'all keep throwing out there...unproven fairy tale hype that sounds good to someone who is easily impressed, but in the end amounts to absolutely nothing. I guess I was naive enough to think you had something this time around I squirmed around trying to get out of you what that was exactly, only to be dissapointed.

The Alternative, of course, is not a suggestion, it's a fact in my view... God did it. What exactly did you expect? For me to suddenly change my religion? For me to suddenly go rock dumb and buy into what you people continue to push? Did you think you had something so complicated, I'd be awe stricken? Or figure if I didn't understand it, that would mean, "you showed me"?

 

[Kenny'sID]

....And therefore Occams Razor would simply say that a book like a bible is at best a collection of mostly parables rather than saying instead that snakes & donkeys talk, earth is flat & 6,000 years old, an undemonstratable worldwide flood occurred, a deity exists and hides from us in every way we could verify he exists, and All our observable points of data collected over centuries by countless scientists of one form or another in multiple and independent fields of scientific inquiry, etc. are all somehow wrong... no?

If you have something to say, just say it, no need to involve me. I don't know if you are just making a statement of asking me a question? In the end, whether I agree with you or not, will that change your mind on anything?

 

[SteveB28]

This is just the same junk y'all keep throwing out there...unproven fairy tale hype that sounds good to someone who is easily impressed, but in the end amounts to absolutely nothing. I guess I was naive enough to think you had something this time around I squirmed around trying to get out of you what that was exactly, only to be dissapointed.

The Alternative, of course, is not a suggestion, it's a fact in my view... God did it. What exactly did you expect? For me to suddenly change my religion? For me to suddenly go rock dumb and buy into what you people continue to push? Did you think you had something so complicated, I'd be awe stricken? Or figure if I didn't understand it, that would mean, "you showed me"?

So, your contention is that your god deliberately placed those ancient viral insertions, all 200,000 of them, in EXACTLY the same locations in each of the genomes of chimpanzees and humans, so that it would appear that they shared a common ancestor?

Not only that, but he also deliberately placed ERVs into the genomes of the other primate species, in such a way that it matches the pattern of the nested hierarchy which links those species?

Why would your god go to those lengths please? Was he deliberately trying to confuse mankind? Is he a deceiver? Is he a cosmic trickster? I thought that was supposed to be Satan's role?

 

[Kenny'sID]

My contention is, if it happened, he did it. That should pretty well cover what I'm surprised you don't already know.

You'll have to ask him why he does what he does... it might not be for the reasons you "imagine".

 

[Speedwell]

So, your contention is that your god deliberately placed those ancient viral insertions, all 200,000 of them, in EXACTLY the same locations in each of the genomes of chimpanzees and humans, so that it would appear that they shared a common ancestor?

Not only that, but he also deliberately placed ERVs into the genomes of the other primate species, in such a way that it matches the pattern of the nested hierarchy which links those species?

Why would your god go to those lengths please? Was he deliberately trying to confuse mankind? Is he a deceiver? Is he a cosmic trickster? I thought that was supposed to be Satan's role?

Maybe Satan did it. (Sorry, I was waiting for Kenny to make the suggestion, but he apparently never thought of it. He can elaborate: viruses are the result of the Fall, maybe?)

 

[Kenny'sID]

Maybe Satan did it. (Sorry, I was waiting for Kenny to make the suggestion, but he apparently never thought of it. He can elaborate: viruses are the result of the Fall, maybe?)

Or maybe it all poofed out of nowhere from little or nothing, just because. lol Or what was that?, it started expanding somewhere and kept expanding till all the complex universe came out of it somehow over time.

One thing I've found, no matter how ridiculous you feel the biblical way is, Atheists always win out there every time...hands down.

 

[SteveB28]

My contention is, if it happened, he did it. That should pretty well cover what I'm surprised you don't already know.

You'll have to ask him why he does what he does... it might not be for the reasons you "imagine".

Ah, I see......the theist's usual retreat....."god moves in mysterious ways".

The ultimate definition of an argument from IGNORANCE....!

I'm sure that you would be in the camp of the famous theist who stated that, if he found in the Bible the statement that 2+2=5, he would accept it without question........




.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The ultimate definition of an argument from IGNORANCE....!

Yet i see your argument as from ignorance of God.

I'm sure that you would be in the camp of the famous theist who stated that, if he found in the Bible the statement that 2+2=5, he would accept it without question........

That sounds good to someone not paying attention, but problem is you won't find that in the bible, it's an imaginary and unproven scenario so the comment means nothing.

 

[Speedwell]

Or maybe it all poofed out of nowhere from little or nothing, just because. lol Or what was that?, it started expanding somewhere and kept expanding till all the complex universe came out of it somehow over time.

One thing I've found, no matter how ridiculous you feel the biblical way is, Atheists always win out there every time...hands down.

So you didn't like that explanation for the retrovirus insertions? I'm disappointed.

 

[SteveB28]

That sounds good to someone not paying attention, but problem is you won't find that in the bible, it's an imaginary and unproven scenario so the comment means nothing.

No, it's not found in the Bible, but that wasn't his point.

He was stating that IF he found something in the Bible that disagreed with logic or reality, then reality must be wrong.

I am supposing that you are one of that ilk.

But, back to your ignorance....you tell me that your god deliberately placed those hundreds of thousands of ERVs in such a way that appears to support common ancestry?

Tell me, does he also personally manage every aspect of our weather? Does he personally send each shower of rain? Does he hand-mould every cloud? Does he direct the hurricanes which strike your shorelines? Are these things intricately managed by him on a daily basis?

 

[Speedwell]

No, it's not found in the Bible, but that wasn't his point.

He was stating that IF he found something in the Bible that disagreed with logic or reality, then reality must be wrong.

I am supposing that you are one of that ilk.

But, back to your ignorance....you tell me that your god deliberately placed those hundreds of thousands of ERVs in such a way that appears to support common ancestry?

Tell me, does he also personally manage every aspect of our weather? Does he personally send each shower of rain? Does he hand-mould every cloud? Does he direct the hurricanes which strike your shorelines? Are these things intricately managed by him on a daily basis?

There is another possible explanation for why the DNA we share with chimpanzees show the same retrovirus insertion points. Creationists tell us that the commonalities of the various creatures are due to God's reuse of common components. So when God got around to making man, he used chimpanzee DNA in which retrovirus insertions had already occurred.

Hows that, Kenny?