The ethics of voting for Donald Trump

[Albion]

He does those things because he knows they will be popular with his base, or because his advisors and Pence tell him to.

Speculation abounds, just as I was saying earlier. But the facts are not supporting it in this case.

But be that as it may, what of the pols who would like his job instead? If you think that Kasich, Buttigieg, Biden, Hillary, and others do not do a lot more than Trump in ways that you consider hypocritical vis-à-vis religion, I'd love to read why that is.

The Faith List: 2020 Democratic Presidential Candidates And Their Religion - Auburn Seminary

 

[Strathos]

Speculation abounds, just as I was saying earlier. But the facts are not supporting it in this case.

But be that as it may, what of the pols who would like his job instead? If you think that Kasich, Buttigieg, Biden, Hillary, and others do not do a lot more than Trump in ways that you consider hypocritical vis-à-vis religion, I'd love to read why that is.

The Faith List: 2020 Democratic Presidential Candidates And Their Religion - Auburn Seminary

I'd trust most of them to pass, or at least score higher, on my proposed Bible quiz, than Trump.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I'd trust most of them to pass, or at least score higher, on my proposed Bible quiz, than Trump.

Don't need a grader Up There because,
we get in through Christ alone.

M-Bob

 

[PloverWing]

We might need a tune up regarding Trump?
Our Pastor supports him
and we are Far from the prosperity gospel.
Real far.
M

Does your pastor support him privately, or from the pulpit?

Setting aside the question of tax-exempt status, and just thinking pastorally: It's hard for me to imagine my pastor (or any of his predecessors) endorsing a candidate from the pulpit. Does your pastor describe Trump as God's choice for the job, carrying out God's will in the presidential office, etc., or does your pastor just think Trump is the best imperfect choice among a collection of imperfect candidates? And if the endorsement is part of the sermon, how does the pastor connect the endorsement to the day's Scripture reading? I'm genuinely having trouble picturing how this sermon would go; it sounds quite different from the kind of sermon I'm used to.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Trump is the best imperfect choice



among a collection of imperfect candidates? And if the endorsement is part of the sermon, how does the pastor connect the endorsement to the day's Scripture reading? I'm genuinely having trouble picturing how this sermon would go; it sounds quite different from the kind of sermon I'm used to.

And we are all imperfect.
M

 

[GACfan]

And we are all imperfect.
M

I wonder why some Trump supporters never seem to remember that whenever they pompously point a judgmental finger and cast stones at some Democratic politician for immoral and unethical behavior.

 

[Albion]

I wonder why some Trump supporters never seem to remember that whenever they pompously point a judgmental finger and cast stones at some Democratic politician for immoral and unethical behavior.

They do that in reaction to the terrible things said of Trump by people who never gave him a chance.

The critics talk now as though he disappointed them or that something in Trump turned up after he was in office that turned them against Trump...but his supporters you referred to remember well all that the movement to obstruct, resist, and destroy him did and said, from the day he declared his candidacy forward.

 

[gaara4158]

They do that in reaction to the terrible things said of Trump by people who never gave him a chance.

The critics talk now as though he disappointed them or that something in Trump turned up after he was in office that turned them against Trump...but his supporters you referred to remember well all that the movement to obstruct, resist, and destroy him did and said, from the day he declared his candidacy forward.

Yes, we’ve all been truly appalled and disgusted by Trump’s statements and policies. We just concluded earlier in this thread that his anti-abortion policies actually lead to more infant deaths around the world. So the fact that everyone hates him justifies him being so horrible? I suppose the Devil would say the same thing.

 

[Albion]

Yes, we’ve all been truly appalled and disgusted by Trump’s statements and policies. We just concluded earlier in this thread that his anti-abortion policies actually lead to more infant deaths around the world.

Oh, we did, did we?

 

[gaara4158]

Oh, we did, did we?

You’re welcome to read it.

 

[PloverWing]

And we are all imperfect.
M

Yes, of course we are. Voting is always a matter of picking the candidate whose strengths best outweigh their weaknesses; I have never seen a candidate without flaws. If you believe that Trump's strengths outweigh his weaknesses, then you should vote for him.

I was more interested in the way in which your pastor supports Trump -- what form does this take? Is this just something you know about your pastor because of informal conversations over coffee, or does your pastor speak about the election and presidency during the Sunday morning service; and if the latter, what kinds of things does your pastor say? This is unfamiliar territory to me, and I want to see what it looks like in a church.

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm tired of the "we are electing a president, not a pastor" argument.

Look, lying and manipulation are bad things even by pagan standards, it doesn't require any special revelation to see that they are evils. It's not like issues like abortion where people have genuine disagreements based on metaphysical notions about human ensoulment and personhood.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Is this just something you know about your pastor because of informal conversations over coffee,









or does your pastor speak about the election and presidency during the Sunday morning service; and if the latter, what kinds of things does your pastor say? This is unfamiliar territory to me, and I want to see what it looks like in a church.

Yes, we have coffee together.

Not the time or place for politics during preaching
I think we all know that?

M-Bob

 

[GACfan]

I'm tired of the "we are electing a president, not a pastor" argument.

Not to mention that was never an argument from conservatives with Clinton or Obama during both of their administrations. We never heard that excuse or any other excuses from the Christian Right with these Democratic presidents, but what we did hear were moral sentiments like this: "Character does matter. You can't run a family, let alone a country without it. How foolish to believe that a person who lacks honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and the world" (James Dobson).

We weren't told that Christians should submit and obey the government when Clinton or Obama were in office. We didn't hear the passionate arguments about how God ordains and appoints the President or our national leaders, but we did hear arguments for civil disobedience against the government. We also heard "May his days be few..." when Obama was the President. Ironically, that has all changed.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

We weren't told that Christians should submit and obey the government when Clinton or Obama were in office.


We didn't hear the passionate arguments about how God ordains and appoints the President or our national leaders, but we did hear arguments for civil disobedience against the government. We also heard "May his days be few..." when Obama was the President. Ironically, that has all changed.

Thought most already knew that?
M-Bob

 

[PloverWing]

Yes, we have coffee together.

Not the time or place for politics during preaching
I think we all know that?

Good, I'm relieved.

 

[FireDragon76]

They do that in reaction to the terrible things said of Trump by people who never gave him a chance.

That's not the issue. I believe in giving just about anybody a chance, including Donald Trump. But in terms of my expectations, he exceeded them in terms of his poor character.

 

[Albion]

That's not the issue. I believe in giving just about anybody a chance, including Donald Trump. But in terms of my expectations, he exceeded them in terms of his poor character.

Of course, I was referring to the many, many, instances of such behavior that everyone of us has witnessed over the past several years. What you personally might have done or thought wasn't the subject of my post.

I also think that it's worth explaining this to all the people who seem to wonder, all the time, "How can Trump voters not agree with our criticisms of the president?" The fact is that it's a matter of fairness to most of them. Lie about the president, call for a nullification of the election of 2016, and fairminded people are virtually honor-bound to oppose such behavior.

Had, for instance, the verbal abuse been more or less on the level of what Ronald Reagan or George H.W. Bush experienced--"Bedtime for Bonzo" signs, some "church lady" type skits on SNL poking fun at Bush's style of speech, etc. etc., there would have been much less of the reaction I am referring to. But no one can seriously deny that there has been a quantum-leap in the viciousness during the past three years.

 

[FireDragon76]

Of course, I was referring to the many, many, instances of such behavior that everyone of us has witnessed over the past several years. What you personally might have done or thought wasn't the subject of my post.

I also think that it's worth explaining this to all the people who seem to wonder, all the time, "How can Trump voters not agree with our criticisms of the president?" The fact is that it's a matter of fairness to most of them. Lie about the president, call for a nullification of the election of 2016, and fairminded people are virtually honor-bound to oppose such behavior.

Had, for instance, the verbal abuse been more or less on the level of what Ronald Reagan or George H.W. Bush experienced--"Bedtime for Bonzo" signs, some "church lady" type skits on SNL poking fun at Bush's style of speech, etc. etc., there would have been much less of the reaction I am referring to. But no one can seriously deny that there has been a quantum-leap in the viciousness during the past three years.

It's not really surprising. Trump is himself vicious.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I’ll be the first to admit that president Donald Trump isn’t perfect. He said some mean things about undocumented immigrants, calling them drug-dealers, criminals, and rapists. He has a huge ego. And I certainly don’t approve of his extramarital affairs. But whatever Trump’s flaws, at least he gets one thing right: he is pro-life.

Abortion is arguably the number one issue of our time. According to the Wikipedia page called “Abortion statistics in the United States,” there have been 45.7 million abortions in the United States since Roe v. Wade. By comparison, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. This means that 7.5 times more babies have been murdered in the womb than Jews who were gassed by the Nazis. Let those numbers sink in for a moment.

The Bible consistently confirms that God believes life begins at conception. One example is Jeremiah 1:5, which says, “Before you were in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Another example is Luke 1:41, which says, “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.”

How is Trump against abortion? Here are some facts on the matter:

1. Trump has chosen many nominees who are against abortion, including Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch.

2. Trump wants to completely ban abortion except for rape, incest, or when the life of the woman is in danger.

3. Trump showed support for a ban on abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy. Just In: Brody File Exclusive: Donald Trump Comes Out In Support Of 20 Week Abortion Ban

4. Trump wants to appeal the Affordable Care Act, which provides people with health insurance coverage for abortion.

5. Trump would have preferred to shut down the government rather than fund Planned Parenthood, a prominent abortion racket.

6. Trump’s VP Pence said he wants to see Roe v. Wade on “the ash heap of history,” and he has a consistent record of defending life in the womb. Democratic National Convention, the final day: 'When there are no ceilings, the sky's the limit,' Clinton says - Los Angeles Times

Because abortion is arguably the Holocaust of our day, it is of the utmost importance that we Christians vote for pro-life political leaders. We all must take a principled stand against the notable genocide that is occurring in our country. Trump isn’t perfect, but at least he is pro-life. For that reason, I believe he is the most ethical candidate to vote for next year when the 2020 presidential election takes place.

I was just telling my wife the other day that Trump is a political trouble-maker and Christians would be crazy to vote for him. The funny thing is, "the other day" was back in 2016, before Trump was ever elected.

Oh, well! As I've said before, we can vote him out just as surely as we voted him in. The problem is that the next elected official will have his or her own un-christian baggage to unload upon the nation, just like Obama did.

(Although, I'll readily admit, I'm guilty of having voted for Obama, the first time, that is. Not the second time.)

The REAL problem is that the U.S. has never been a Christian nation in the first place, but a number of my fellow Christians run around like chickens with loose marbles trying to make it so. To which I say: Good Luck! You're gonna need it!