• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,237
8,528
Canada
✟888,539.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
In terms of the garment, I find studying the clothing of virtue in the scripture.

In the New Testament a similar figure is explained regarding the armor of the spirit.

to "put it on" means to embody it.
 
Upvote 0

80sFlashBacks

Just One Step At A Time!
Jun 9, 2018
41
16
51
Tokyo
✟27,967.00
Country
Japan
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ did set the example and command to be more like Children, those who will inherit the Kingdom. As we should understand God wants everyone to repent of sins and turn to his son. So as not elect on the part of God but a choice of our life path of innocence.
To give you an example,
 
Upvote 0

Jonaitis

Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 4, 2019
5,360
4,307
Wyoming
✟150,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Being "chosen" to go does not mean you will go as you point out and more will be invited to make the same choice (they will not be kidnapped into coming).
So, where those chosen to go the "elect" or were only those both chosen and who accepted the elect?

This is a misunderstanding of election. Those whom God has chosen, he redeems. Sure, he invites sinners to come and repent, but only those that God works such repentance under the gospel are actually saved. The invites goes out to all the world, but only a few are chosen.

You cannot be an elect without becoming a believer (Rom. 8:30). The point of election is that God has a plan in who he plans on saving, and he will save every one of them that he predestined to be saved.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him." - Ephesians 1:3-4

"In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved." - Ephesians 1:5-6

"In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." - Ephesians 1:7-10

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:11-12

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:13-14

Our salvation was designed by the Father, accomplished by the Son, and applied by the Holy Spirit until we are completely and totally redeemed. The Father predestined us for eternal life, the Son accomplished the work necessary for us to have eternal life, and the Holy Spirit efficaciously draws us to faith and repentance for eternal life, and ultimately works in us perseverance to the end. The scheme of it all is a Trinitarian work. You contribute nothing to your salvation except the sin that made it necessary, everything else, even the will to choose Christ, was from God entirely. He worked in you to act according to his will. He applied the gospel to your heart so that you would believe. Apart from him, you would still be in your sins in open hostility to him for the rest of your life, running headlong into hell. The world is full of hostile sinners, from Adam, who willingly wants to run straight into judgment through their works and lives. The Christian who repents and believe, resting their only hope in Christ, is a miracle of God in that person by the sheer grace and love and mercy of God. You are a Christian because God planned it so. You are a Christian because God wanted it so. Show fruits that come with repentance so that you may confirm your calling and election (2 Pet. 1:10).

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." - John 6:44

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day." - John 6:39

And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” - John 6:65

Let's listen to these words of the apostle:

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? - Romans 9:19-24

Had we "Calvinists" said that, some of you would shout heresy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redleghunter
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God provides, but you still have to make the choice to go and pick up the garment before going in.
The parable does not mention the attendees going to the quartermaster to get the garment.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,812
1,921
✟989,104.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
He didn't see it the way you described. Rather, it was the opposite. He saw these doctrines as doctrines of grace in every way. We are helpless and lost, depraved and condemned, yet God who sees all these things loves his people despite them. There was nothing in them, from them, or about them that influenced his love for them. He loved them freely and independently from anything he would ever see in them. Predestination gives us the comfort, encouragement, and joy that our salvation was on God's part in us, for us, and apart from us. Sure, we must do something, but that cannot happen without God's grace efficaciously drawing and working in us to do what he wants. One of the most encouraging truths is that if God has so chosen us, apart from anything in us, then all the means to bring us into his kingdom, including our perseverance, depends entirely on his grace. We can be assured that if we believe and trust in Christ, he will never forsake us and leave us. We may sin grievously, but God always disciplines and brings his children back to repentance, but never once did he forsake them in it.

Some people don't see it like that...
You say and I agree: “There was nothing in them, from them, or about them that influenced his love for them.” But under your scenario that would make God’s selection of the elect “arbitrary”?

Also:

There is from your understanding no reason for God to “Love” the group of people He “elected” and not Love the group He did not elect? We are to Love everyone even our enemy so why would God have a lesser Love?

I agree with lots you are saying:

1. The doctrine is fully grace.

2. We are helpless and lost, depraved and condemned

3. God who sees all these things loves us

4. There was nothing in them, from them, or about them that influenced his love for them

5. He loved them freely and independently from anything

6. that our salvation was on God's part in us, for us, and apart from us.

Just as Christ could have used any words to describe the condition of the prodigal son in the foreign land and chose “Dead”, the unbelieving sinner is “dead” the same way, but like the prodigal son was able to do stuff in his dead state, the unbelieving sinner can do stuff in his dead state.

The unbeliever cannot, as you say, do anything honorable, righteous, noble, worthy of anything or of value, but he can for selfish (unrighteous) reasons, wimp out, give up and surrender to his enemy. Anyone surrendering to his/her enemy is not changing sides, loving his enemy, or honorable (there are no monuments built on the battle field to those who surrendered. At the moment of the sinner’s surrendering, God is still his enemy he/she hates God, but the sinner is just willing to accept pure undeserved charity from his/her enemy (which is not noble at all).

The difference between those who become the elect and those who are macho, willing to take the punishment they fully deserve and pay the piper and do not want to disturb the father further with their presence, is the elect’s willingness the humbly accept undeserved charity.

Like the prodigal son’s father who would Love the son even if the son never returned, God Loves those who continue to refuse His Charity to the point of never accepting God’s charity, but provides them with a lesser earthly objective.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: worshipjunkie
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,812
1,921
✟989,104.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The parable does not mention the attendees going to the quartermaster to get the garment.
Right, we are not told how they got the garments, but if the master is going to homeless street people to invite them to the banquet he will have to supply garments for them.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

Antiochian Orthodox
Apr 6, 2018
7,393
5,278
26
USA
✟243,137.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I read about something like this.... The guy was not elect and complained that it was not fair.
Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be.
Romans 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

Oh, by the way, look at the context of these complaints...
Romans 9:11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of him who calls.
God calls, and the the hypothetical opponent of Paul seems to complain that election is not fair. I mean in election "who resists his will?"

I can completely understand those who hate the biblical doctrine of election. From our perspective, it is not fair.

Also read Romans 9:21. Paul defends his unfair doctrine of election by saying that the potter has the right to make any kind of pot that God chooses. How is that fair, what say does the pot have in that discussion?

Your statement that no one says "I guess I was predestined to go to hell" does have at least someone who seemed to be complaining about being predestined to go to hell in Romans 9. I am curious, do you think Pauls arguments were fair?
None of those verses talk about "predestined salvation", it talks about the role of Jews and Gentiles and how the latter can be added to the Church
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,812
1,921
✟989,104.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This is a misunderstanding of election. Those whom God has chosen, he redeems. Sure, he invites sinners to come and repent, but only those that God works such repentance under the gospel are actually saved. The invites goes out to all the world, but only a few are chosen.
There is nothing in the banquet parables which suggests these street people strangers to Master had anything special over those who refused to go?

There is nothing in the invitation about “repenting” they are just asked to come, the gratitude will come after they go to the banquet.
You cannot be an elect without becoming a believer (Rom. 8:30). The point of election is that God has a plan in who he plans on saving, and he will save every one of them that he predestined to be saved.
Yes, God plans and predestined to save all those who accept the invitation.

The initial “faith” or believe seems to be: there is a benevolent Creator who can help me and I am want and willing to accept His help, but even the lowliest mature adult on earth can be willing to accept charity, so the “believer’s “action” is a humbling experience.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him." - Ephesians 1:3-4
That is talking to the existing elect Christians (Paul’s letter to Christians).
"In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved." - Ephesians 1:5-6
Again: That is talking to the existing elect Christians (Paul’s letter to Christians).
"In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." - Ephesians 1:7-10
Again: That is talking to the existing elect Christians (Paul’s letter to Christians).
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:11-12
Yes, all those who first hoped in Christ were predestined to inherit lots of stuff.
"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:13-14
When they heard, they believed and gifts were showered on them.
Our salvation was designed by the Father, accomplished by the Son, and applied by the Holy Spirit until we are completely and totally redeemed. The Father predestined us for eternal life, the Son accomplished the work necessary for us to have eternal life, and the Holy Spirit efficaciously draws us to faith and repentance for eternal life, and ultimately works in us perseverance to the end. The scheme of it all is a Trinitarian work. You contribute nothing to your salvation except the sin that made it necessary, everything else, even the will to choose Christ, was from God entirely. He worked in you to act according to his will. He applied the gospel to your heart so that you would believe. Apart from him, you would still be in your sins in open hostility to him for the rest of your life, running headlong into hell. The world is full of hostile sinners, from Adam, who willingly wants to run straight into judgment through their works and lives. The Christian who repents and believe, resting their only hope in Christ, is a miracle of God in that person by the sheer grace and love and mercy of God. You are a Christian because God planned it so. You are a Christian because God wanted it so. Show fruits that come with repentance so that you may confirm your calling and election (2 Pet. 1:10).
There is no issue, telling a Christian they were predestine to eternal life and all that was established to bring around that eternal life.

Right, I contribute nothing to God’s charity.

I am not saying: “By our own will we choose Christ”, since that comes after God showers us with gifts and we can have the gratitude (Love) to accept Christ. God will not shower us with gifts if we do not want them (that would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun).

God “wants” everyone to be a Christian, but again, God is not going to force His charity on you.
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48
Start with Acts 13: 46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

The reason Paul moves on the Gentiles is because the Jews did something “rejected” and “considered themselves unworthy”, but Paul did not say: “God did not provide you with an accepting heart”.

Here what we find in Albert Barnes’ notes on the subject:

The main inquiry is, what is the meaning of the word rendered "ordained"? The word is used only eight times in the New Testament: Matthew 28:16, "Into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them" ; that is, previously appointed - before his death; Luke 7:8, "For I also am a man set under authority" ; appointed, or designated as a soldier, to be under the authority of another; Acts 15:2, "They determined that Paul and Barnabas, etc., should go to Jerusalem" ; Acts 22:10, "It shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do" ; Acts 23:23, "And when they appointed him a day," etc.: Romans 13:1, "the powers that be are ordained of God; I Corinthians 16:15, They have addicted themselves to the ministry of saints." The word ́ tassō , properly means "to place" - that is, to place in a certain rank or order. Its meaning is derived from arranging or disposing a body of soldiers in regular military order. In the places which have been mentioned above, the word is used to denote the following things:

(1) To command, or to designate, Matthew 28:16; Acts 22:10; Acts 28:23.

(2) To institute, constitute, or appoint, Romans 13:1; compare II Samuel 8:11; I Samuel 22:7.

(3) To determine, to take counsel, to resolve, Acts 15:2.

(4) To subject to the authority of another, Luke 7:8.

(5) To addict to; to devote to, I Corinthians 16:15. The meaning may be thus expressed:

(1) The word is never used to denote an internal disposition or inclination arising from one' s own self. It does not mean that they disposed themselves to embrace eternal life.

(2) It has uniformly the notion of an ordering, disposing, or arranging from without; that is, from some other source than the individual himself; as of a soldier, who is arranged or classified according to the will of the proper officer. In relation to these persons it means, therefore, that they were disposed or inclined to this from some other source than themselves.

(3) It does not properly refer to an eternal decree, or directly to the doctrine of election - though that may be inferred from it; but it refers to their being then in fact disposed to embrace eternal life. They were then inclined by an influence from without themselves, or so disposed as to embrace eternal life. That this was done by the influence of the Holy Spirit is clear from all parts of the New Testament, Titus 3:5-6; John 1:13. It was not a disposition or arrangement originating with themselves, but with God.

(4) This implies the doctrine of election. It was, in fact, that doctrine expressed in an act. It was nothing but God' s disposing them to embrace eternal life. And that he does this according to a plan in his own mind a plan which is unchangeable as he himself is unchangeable is clear from the Scriptures. Compare Acts 18:10; Romans 8:28-30; Romans 9:15-16, Romans 9:21, Romans 9:23; Ephesians 1:4-5, Ephesians 1:11. The meaning may be expressed in few words - who were then disposed, and in good earnest determined, to embrace eternal life, by the operation of the grace of God upon their hearts.


"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." - John 6:44
OK, but as it looks from Christ’s banquet parables everyone is being “drawn”?
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day." - John 6:39
Right we cannot blame God or Christ for the lost since they did all they could to help those who were just willing, but that does not mean the person themselves cannot walk away, God is not kidnapping them.
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” - John 6:65
OK, the person has to be showered with gifts by God before coming to Christ, but the only thing keeping God from granting the sinner these gifts is the willingness to accept them as pure charity.
Let's listen to these words of the apostle:

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? - Romans 9:19-24
Romans 9

Paul uses two teaching methods throughout Romans even secular philosophy classes will use Romans as the best example of these methods. Paul does an excellent job of building one premise on the previous premises to develop his final conclusions. Paul uses an ancient form of rhetoric known as diatribe (imaginary debate) asking questions and most of the time giving a strong “By no means” and then goes on to explain “why not”. Paul’s method goes beyond just a general diatribe and follows closely to the diatribes used in the individual laments in the Psalms and throughout the Old Testament, which the Jewish Christians would have known extensively. These “questions or comments” are given by an “imaginary” student making it more a dialog with the readers (students) and not just a “sermon”.

The main topic repeated extensively in Romans is the division in the Christian house churches in Rome between the Jews and Gentile Christians. You can just look up how many times Jews and gentiles are referred to see this as a huge issue.



The main question (a diatribe question) in Romans 9 Paul addresses is God being fair or just Rms. 9: 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!



This will take some explaining, since just prior in Romans 9, Paul went over some history of God’s dealings with the Israelites that sounds very “unjust” like “loving Jacob and hating Esau” before they were born, but remember in all of Paul’s diatribes he begins before, just after or before and just after with strong support for the wrong answer (this makes it more of a debate and giving the opposition the first shot as done in all diatribes).



Who in Rome would be having a “problem” with God choosing to work with Isaac and Jacob instead of Ishmael and Esau? Would the Jewish Christian have a problem with this or would it be the Gentile Christians?



If God treaded you as privileged and special would you have a problem or would you have a problem if you were treated seemingly as common and others were treated with honor for no apparent reason?



This is the issue and Paul will explain over the rest of Romans 9-11.



Paul is specific with the issue Rms. 9: 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”



Who is the “one of you” is this Jewish Christian (elect) or Gentile Christian (elect) or is this “non-elect” individual (this “letter” is written to Christians and not non-Christians)?



Can Jews say they cannot be blamed for failing in their honored position or would it be the Gentiles that would say they cannot be blamed since they were not in the honored position?



Is it really significant when it comes to what really counts, if you are born a gentile or Jew in first century Rome?



Are there issues and problems with being a first century Jew and was this a problem for Paul?



The Jews were created in a special honorable position that would bring forth the Messiah and everyone else was common in comparison (the Gentiles).



How do we know Paul is specifically addressing the Jew/Gentile issue? Rms. 9: 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.



Paul is showing from the position of being made “common” vessels by God the Gentiles had an advantage over the born Israelites (vessels of honor) that had the Law, since the Law became a stumbling stone to them. They both needed faith to rely on God’s Love to forgive them.



Without going into the details of Romans 9-11 we conclude with this diatribe question: Romans 11: 11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!



The common vessels (gentiles) and the vessels of honor (Jews) are equal individually in what is really significant when it comes to salvation, so God is not being unjust or unfair with either group.



If there is still a question about who is being addressed in this section of Rms. 9-11, Paul tells us: Rms. 11: 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

Rm 9: 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

This verse is not saying all the “vessels” created for a “common purpose” were created for destruction (they were not made from the start by the Potter “clay pigeons”). Everything that leaves the potter’s shop is of great quality. Those vessels for destruction can come from either the common group or the honor group, but God is being patient with them that will eventually be destroyed. The vessels God does develop great wrath against, will be readied for destruction, but how did they become worthy of destruction since they left the potter’s shop with his mark on them? Any vessel (honorable or common) that becomes damaged is not worthy of the potters signature and He would want it destroyed.

To understand this as Common vessels and special vessels look at the same idea using the same Greek words of Paul in 2 Tim 2: 20. There Paul even points out the common can become the honored vessel.

That is a short explanation, since you really need to study all of Romans especially chapters 9, 10 and 11. Also please look at individual laments in the Psalms and diatribes in general, I really cut those short.
 
Upvote 0

Don Maurer

^Oh well^
Jun 5, 2013
433
139
Pa, USA, Earth, solar system, milky way, universe.
✟65,086.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
None of those verses talk about "predestined salvation", it talks about the role of Jews and Gentiles and how the latter can be added to the Church

The verses talk about individual salvation, and do not talk about the role of anybody.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

Antiochian Orthodox
Apr 6, 2018
7,393
5,278
26
USA
✟243,137.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The verses talk about individual salvation, and do not talk about the role of anybody.
You know the "I love Jacob and I hated Esau" is about God choosing the nation of Israel rather than Edom? And the "vessel idea" comes from Jeremiah where God decided to get rid of the Kingdom of Judah for its sins?
 
Upvote 0

SinoBen

Active Member
May 23, 2018
249
103
Brisbane
✟36,698.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That is a short explanation, since you really need to study all of Romans especially chapters 9, 10 and 11. Also please look at individual laments in the Psalms and diatribes in general, I really cut those short.

Whoa... well done! Love it.
 
Upvote 0
Nov 22, 2018
10
5
45
Los Angeles
✟23,060.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Only God knows His children. And His children hear His voice. You can have assurance of salvation if your life produces fruit, but regardless of the earthly evidence a predestined son of God will never fail to gain His promises.
 
Upvote 0

Calvin_1985

Active Member
Sep 1, 2018
318
128
40
Roanoke
✟37,899.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So are the elect like that group of people at the prayer meeting who decide who's saved and who's not? I Mean, how do they know who isn't saved? Did they vote? Sometimes saved people appear on the list and it is confusing.
Please just stay ways from anything Calvinistic. The "elect" are those Born again by the Blood of Jesus. It is those that have come to Jesus and believed upon him as the Messiah for forgiveness of sin and Reconcilation to Father. Jehovah did not prescribe a specefic people to Salvation. Jesus died for the sins of the world so that through Him we might be saved. Just forego anything Reformed and march in seeking the Kingdom of God through the footsteps of Jesus. Eat of His flesh and drink of His blood because without him, you can do nothing and will know nothing. It's only by him and through him that you will see and know Father.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,237
8,528
Canada
✟888,539.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Please just stay ways from anything Calvinistic. The "elect" are those Born again by the Blood of Jesus. It is those that have come to Jesus and believed upon him as the Messiah for forgiveness of sin and Reconcilation to Father. Jehovah did not prescribe a specefic people to Salvation. Jesus died for the sins of the world so that through Him we might be saved. Just forego anything Reformed and march in seeking the Kingdom of God through the footsteps of Jesus. Eat of His flesh and drink of His blood because without him, you can do nothing and will know nothing. It's only by him and through him that you will see and know Father.

Calvinists don't have a monopoly on the use of the word "elect"

By this same reasoning, I would think you're a Jehovah's witness because you used the word Jehovah.
 
Upvote 0

Calvin_1985

Active Member
Sep 1, 2018
318
128
40
Roanoke
✟37,899.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Calvinists don't have a monopoly on the use of the word "elect"

By this same reasoning, I would think you're a Jehovah's witness because you used the word Jehovah.
Usually anyone using the term elect is in reverence to Calvinism considering they are literally the only ones that ever use it outside of scripture reading.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,056
56
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,940,328.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Usually anyone using the term elect is in reverence to Calvinism considering they are literally the only ones that ever use it outside of scripture reading.
It is kinda strange that those Calvinists use biblical language.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,237
8,528
Canada
✟888,539.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Usually anyone using the term elect is in reverence to Calvinism considering they are literally the only ones that ever use it outside of scripture reading.
Much of my initial memory work was using the KJV, it's a word in the bible, so I used it.
 
Upvote 0

Calvin_1985

Active Member
Sep 1, 2018
318
128
40
Roanoke
✟37,899.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Much of my initial memory work was using the KJV, it's a word in the bible, so I used it.
Yes it is a word used in the KJV but just because somebody uses it doesn't make it Biblical. Calvinists misuse the term therefore it's unbiblical when used by them. Many use Bible language but that doesn't mean they are being or speaking Biblical. It's just like somebody having the written word of God. Just because they have the written, it doesn't always mean they have the word of God, but a counterfeit. Please don't jump to conclusions about what I have said. The Bible is the word of God.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,237
8,528
Canada
✟888,539.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Yes it is a word used in the KJV but just because somebody uses it doesn't make it Biblical. Calvinists misuse the term therefore it's unbiblical when used by them. Many use Bible language but that doesn't mean they are being or speaking Biblical. It's just like somebody having the written word of God. Just because they have the written, it doesn't always mean they have the word of God, but a counterfeit. Please don't jump to conclusions about what I have said. The Bible is the word of God.
Jesus is also the word of God, so it goes deeper. We can sit here and debate what is biblical, or live it. If there are two renditions to a scripture passage, apply both, and keep to the one with the most Godly fruit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Calvin_1985
Upvote 0