The Ecumenical Movement

[Hermit76]

well, I have been wrong on more than one occasion. and I am not the perfect corrector of anything. I am just a simple priest.

again, my first post on this thread was saying you were right in your hesitations.

So, since you are a priest I guess I can't question your conclusions.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So, since you are a priest I guess I can't question your conclusions.

no, feel free to, I am still wrong often enough. I edited what you just quoted too, to say from a theological POV you are correct.

 

[Hermit76]

I am sorry for losing my wits on all of this and going off. I just realized that my blood pressure is skyrocketing and that I am very anxious.

Understand, many of us who were pastors fear the Billy Grahams of the world. Ecumenicism stresses me. I am not locked in on the evils of heterodoxy. I volunteer with a couple of heterodox missions (not evangelical in nature). The love of the Methodists in my little Appalachian area is without compare. I appreciate and applaud their exemplary work. However, this does not cross over into evangelism. It is here that my anxiety is heightened.

I apologize to Matt and Marius and all others for allowing this anxiety to control my words. Forgive me.

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

Saying there is no salvation outside the Church is a RCC teaching.

This is not true.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am sorry for losing my wits on all of this and going off. I just realized that my blood pressure is skyrocketing and that I am very anxious.

Understand, many of us who were pastors fear the Billy Grahams of the world. Ecumenicism stresses me. I am not locked in on the evils of heterodoxy. I volunteer with a couple of heterodox missions (not evangelical in nature). The love of the Methodists in my little Appalachian area is without compare. I appreciate and applaud their exemplary work. However, this does not cross over into evangelism. It is here that my anxiety is heightened.

I apologize to Matt and Marius and all others for allowing this anxiety to control my words. Forgive me.

you're fine by me. and ecumenism is a great heresy and you are right to be very wary.

 

[ArmyMatt]

This is not true.

it was pre-Vatican II. heck, we used to be condemned for not using the Filioque.

 

[Hermit76]

There was so much more that I didn't get into here because it does cause me stress. I relate Graham to the whole American Christo-Military movement. American domestic evangelicalism has not been kind to the world when it comes to wars, etc. and he was in the thick of it way back when.

Perhaps many just remember the latter years Graham who often spoke like he was another person entirely.

 

[Light of the East]

Well, I'm OK and I do hope you're OK and I would like to better understand your understandings.

I agree with Hermit76......I am most definitely "not okay."

That being said, in response to your query, my background is Protestant for 52 years of my life. Not very practicing (no guidance at all, either from church or home) and outright declared atheist from 18 to 22, when I had a very intense conversion experience.

I spent 13 years in Bob Jones style Fundamentalism, followed by 12 years in PCA Calvinism. During all that time, I never once heard quotes from the Early Fathers or studied any of their writings (which was my own fault). I was flabbergasted, to say the least, when I read the Early Fathers and saw that they were anything but the brand of Protestantism which I was practicing. In fact, they weren't Protestant at all.

After 2 years, I converted, but again, through my own ignorance, I didn't quite go far enough. I went back in time to Catholicism, but I really should have gone Orthodox. After more study and thinking and prayer, I am convinced that Orthodoxy is the most theologically correct position, one that is in line with what the Early Church taught. And from a covenant position (I'm really big on God's Covenant) it is about the same as Catholicism in covenant principles.

Orthodoxy holds up a beautiful and balanced picture of Christ, the Trinity, and the Theotokos (Virgin Mary). I pray almost every day that I could get my heart more and more into it. As I said in the beginning of this post, I am not okay, and that mostly being because I have a very weak faith, struggle with doubts, and have other "issues" which cloud my faith and judgment.

Now if you would like specific understandings of why I converted, I will certainly be glad to talk with you. I guess you could take the above as a bit of an introduction.

 

[Light of the East]

This is not true.

Look up a few Latin Only Traddie Sites. You will stand corrected.

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

it was pre-Vatican II. heck, we used to be condemned for not using the Filioque.

We live in a post Vatican 2 world.

I'm not here to start a RCC vs EO fight in this thread. However, the church does not teach salvation is found only in the RCC. We do however believe the easiest road to salvation comes through the church.

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

Look up a few Latin Only Traddie Sites. You will stand corrected.

I don't care what some random sites say. I care what the church actually teaches.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There was so much more that I didn't get into here because it does cause me stress. I relate Graham to the whole American Christo-Military movement. American domestic evangelicalism has not been kind to the world when it comes to wars, etc. and he was in the thick of it way back when.

Perhaps many just remember the latter years Graham who often spoke like he was another person entirely.

I don't think anyone on here was trying to minimize your experiences, especially if they were negative (and it sounds like they were). I don't want to pry as Lent is tough enough.

 

[JackRT]

I agree with Hermit76......I am most definitely "not okay."

That being said, in response to your query, my background is Protestant for 52 years of my life. Not very practicing (no guidance at all, either from church or home) and outright declared atheist from 18 to 22, when I had a very intense conversion experience.

I spent 13 years in Bob Jones style Fundamentalism, followed by 12 years in PCA Calvinism. During all that time, I never once heard quotes from the Early Fathers or studied any of their writings (which was my own fault). I was flabbergasted, to say the least, when I read the Early Fathers and saw that they were anything but the brand of Protestantism which I was practicing. In fact, they weren't Protestant at all.

After 2 years, I converted, but again, through my own ignorance, I didn't quite go far enough. I went back in time to Catholicism, but I really should have gone Orthodox. After more study and thinking and prayer, I am convinced that Orthodoxy is the most theologically correct position, one that is in line with what the Early Church taught. And from a covenant position (I'm really big on God's Covenant) it is about the same as Catholicism in covenant principles.

Orthodoxy holds up a beautiful and balanced picture of Christ, the Trinity, and the Theotokos (Virgin Mary). I pray almost every day that I could get my heart more and more into it. As I said in the beginning of this post, I am not okay, and that mostly being because I have a very weak faith, struggle with doubts, and have other "issues" which cloud my faith and judgment.

Now if you would like specific understandings of why I converted, I will certainly be glad to talk with you. I guess you could take the above as a bit of an introduction.

Thank you.

 

[ArmyMatt]

We live in a post Vatican 2 world.

I'm not here to start a RCC vs EO fight in this thread. However, the church does not teach salvation is found only in the RCC. We do however believe the easiest road to salvation comes through the church.

I know, because Rome changed her position on those outside her confession. the Rome of today is not the same as the Rome of 100 years ago.

 

[Hermit76]

We live in a post Vatican 2 world.

I'm not here to start a RCC vs EO fight in this thread. However, the church does not teach salvation is found only in the RCC. We do however believe the easiest road to salvation comes through the church.

I have found that the Catholics I have met (including several priests) do not hold that salvation cannot be found outside of the church.

 

[Light of the East]

I know, because Rome changed her position on those outside her confession. the Rome of today is not the same as the Rome of 100 years ago.

Uh huh.....which raises the question....which "truth" of Rome is the "true truth," then or now?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Uh huh.....which raises the question....which "truth" of Rome is the "true truth," then or now?

that's a good question.

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

I de railed this thread. At least I gave you a common enemy lol.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I de railed this thread. At least I gave you a common enemy lol.

no, it's actually very relevant. and you didn't give us a common enemy, but looking at history what you posted is not accurate.

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

Kk. I was wrong.