The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe you two mean the same thing, only word it differently. Neither one of you say what you do have, i.e., law of the Spirit of life in Christ. That's why I try to ALWAYS, without fail, credit the Holy Spirit. We can do nothing good of ourselves.

As you know I always took you at your word, that we are not under the law of righteousness. That isn't complete without what you believe you ARE under. Frankly, I always thought you meant we have no law at all if we believe in Christ. Now I know that's not what you meant at all. But both Jason and I believed that. So maybe now you two can converse politely.

Personally, I'm not sure "law of righteousness" is the right term. I would call it the law of sin and death. That's what Romans 7 and 8 call it. In what context did you come up with law of righteousness? That sounds more positive than negative, like the law of the Spirit. Unless you are talking self-righteous.

Please read my recent lengthy post to you. Me and Stuart do not believe the same thing. We are not simply wording things differently. He believes he can sin and still be saved on some level. I do not believe that. Serious sin is separation from God. Stuart does not believe that.

Like most Eternal Security proponents, Stuart will say that a believer living a life of habitual sin (like a murder or a rapist) is an indicator that they are not saved. Yet, they will also say that one can do such sins on occasion and still be saved. Gotquestions will even say that one can backslide into sin and be saved in a backslidden state of sin.

Also, the Eternal Security proponent will also say that it is okay to preach to people that all one needs is a belief on Jesus and it is nothing in what you do and yet that somehow that message leads people to do good instead of evil. But if a person is told they can sin and still be saved, then that is exactly what they are going to do. They are going to turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

So no. We do not believe the same thing. Please go back and read my previous post to you.

Thank you.
And may the Lord's love shine upon you.


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[Bible Highlighter]

There is no scripture that teaches OSAS.

JLB

On this we agree 100%.



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[Dan61861]

Those who do not see are those who are trying to justify sin and evil.


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Do you understand what justify means? Saying that I sin and asking for the Lord's mercy isn't justifying, it is admitting my fault. It is humbling myself before a Holy God. You really should read psalms 51 my friend. Accept this time read it with Christ in mind.

You lower God to your standard, I fall on my knees before a mighty and Holy God.

You are almost there Jason, you say you go days without sinning...you say you rarely sin. Soon, you'll be able to offer God your righteousness.

I know what I am Jason. I'm a sinner in desperate need of a saviour. I cleave onto Christ, He is my hope.

With all of my heart, I believe the Gospel. Jesus has died for my sins according to the scriptures. He was buried and on the third day He rose from the dead, according to the scriptures.

This is what I stand on, this is my hope. Christ is my righteousness, He is my rest, He is my justification, He is my santification, He is my redeemer, He is my refuge, He is rock, He is my light, He is my strength, He is my salvation, He is my help.

HE IS MY GOD!

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you understand what justify means? Saying that I sin and asking for the Lord's mercy isn't justifying, it is admitting my fault. It is humbling myself before a Holy God. You really should read psalms 51 my friend. Accept this time read it with Christ in mind.

You lower God to your standard, I fall on my knees before a mighty and Holy God.

You are almost there Jason, you say you go days without sinning...you say you rarely sin. Soon, you'll be able to offer God your righteousness.

I know what I am Jason. I'm a sinner in desperate need of a saviour. I cleave onto Christ, He is my hope.

With all of my heart, I believe the Gospel. Jesus has died for my sins according to the scriptures. He was buried and on the third day He rose from the dead, according to the scriptures.

This is what I stand on, this is my hope. Christ is my righteousness, He is my rest, He is my justification, He is my santification, He is my redeemer, He is my refuge, He is rock, He is my light, He is my strength, He is my salvation, He is my help.

HE IS MY GOD!

In Christ
Daniel

Jesus defines true repentance for us.
So you cannot change what it means.

Jesus said, "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonah;..." (Matthew 12:41).

If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, and looking at verses 6-10 (Jonah 3:6-10), you would see that the king of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. ask the Lord for forgiveness of their sin) (repentance).
(b) Forsake their evil and wicked ways (the fruits of true repentance).​

When God had seen that the Ninevites had forsaken their sinful ways, ..... THAT WAS THE POINT IN TIME ..... when God decided not to bring Judgment or wrath upon them. So Jesus is saying in Matthew 12:41, that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this evil generation (many believers today) and condemn them for not truly repenting.

People today have no idea what true repentance is.
Some think it is just being sorry alone with no real fruits of repentance that follow.
Some others think it is just a change of mind.
But that is not the case for true repentance.
True repentance is a Godlyl sorrow over one's sin that is always followed by it's good fruit (of forsaking sin).


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[Bible Highlighter]

As for Psalms 51, David says to the Lord to create in him a clean heart and a right spirit. This is not in harmony with the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved that says you can sin and still be saved.



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[Bible Highlighter]

Do Eternal Security proponents here hate the Lord God that I describe to them in Scripture?
Is the Eternal Security proponent upset that they may have to live holy and righteous in this life as a requirement of being a part of God's good kingdom?
Can the Eternal Security proponent say that they are not being biased to their own personal motivation to defend their own short comings or sin on some level instead of doing the right things of the Lord that are selfless?


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[Dan61861]

Jesus defines true repentance for us.
So you cannot change what it means.

Jesus said, "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonah;..." (Matthew 12:41).

If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, and looking at verses 6-10 (Jonah 3:6-10), you would see that the king of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. ask the Lord for forgiveness of their sin) (repentance).
(b) Forsake their evil and wicked ways (the fruits of true repentance).​

When God had seen that the Ninevites had forsaken their sinful ways, ..... THAT WAS THE POINT IN TIME ..... when God decided not to bring Judgment or wrath upon them. So Jesus is saying in Matthew 12:41, that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this evil generation (many believers today) and condemn them for not truly repenting.

People today have no idea what true repentance is.
Some think it is just being sorry alone with no real fruits of repentance that follow.
Some others think it is just a change of mind.
But that is not the case for true repentance.
True repentance is a Godlyl sorrow over one's sin that is always followed by it's good fruit (of forsaking sin).


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You are right, Jesus does define repentance...He defines it even better here
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Of course you say the man is justifying his sin and it's evil. Your words, not mine Jason.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

As for Psalms 51, David says to the Lord to create in him a clean heart and a right spirit. This is not in harmony with the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved that says you can sin and still be saved.



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Jason, find Christ in this Psalm...He is there. Of course you do know David is a Prophet, right. As Jesus said, the Prophets, the Scriptures and the Psalms speak of Him.

Jason, it is all about Christ and Him crucified.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

Do Eternal Security proponents here hate the Lord God that I describe to them in Scripture?
Is the Eternal Security proponent upset that they may have to live holy and righteous in this life as a requirement of being a part of God's good kingdom?
Can the Eternal Security proponent say that they are not being biased to their own personal motivation to defend their own short comings or sin on some level instead of doing the right things of the Lord that are selfless?


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It's sad Jason, you actually think you are righteous. Yet you sin and as you say if you sin you are of the devil.

Eternal Security proponents as you call them, humble themselves before the Lord. We do not believe you should sin...God forbid any of us sin. But when we do, we confess our sin and know Christ will forgive us. What we don't do is look to ourselves for righteousness, Christ is our righteousness.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's sad Jason, you actually think you are righteous. Yet you sin and as you say if you sin you are of the devil.

Eternal Security proponents as you call them, humble themselves before the Lord. We do not believe you should sin...God forbid any of us sin. But when we do, we confess our sin and know Christ will forgive us. What we don't do is look to ourselves for righteousness, Christ is our righteousness.

In Christ
Daniel

But in the OSAS belief, there is no point to confess sin in regards to one's salvation. Eternal Security proponents believe all present and future sins are forgiven. OSAS teaches that confessing of sin in 1 John 1:9 is only dealing with only a break in fellowship. But this is wrong, though. A loss of fellowship is a loss of salvation or life, too (See 1 John 5:12).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, find Christ in this Psalm...He is there. Of course you do know David is a Prophet, right. As Jesus said, the Prophets, the Scriptures and the Psalms speak of Him.

Jason, it is all about Christ and Him crucified.

In Christ
Daniel

Not really.

Without the resurrection a person's would still dead in their sins (1 Corinthians 15:17).
Also, Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 says that Christ gave Himself on the cross for a specific purpose, too. It would probably be helpful if you re-read these verses very slowly a couple of times in prayer.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You are right, Jesus does define repentance...He defines it even better here
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Of course you say the man is justifying his sin and it's evil. Your words, not mine Jason.

In Christ
Daniel

In the "Parable of the tax collector and the pharisee": We learn that the problem with the pharisee is that he did not humble himself before the Lord by repenting of his sin like the tax collector did. Jesus's point was about being humble by repenting of one's sins. Nowhere am I suggesting that a believer can be saved without first crying out to Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins and without believing in Jesus's death and resurrection. A believer has to first do these things to be saved initially. From there, Christ then does the good work through the believer. So the believer cannot pat themselves on the back and give themselves the credit. If another fellow believer struggles with sin, it is our duty to pray for them and give them the help they need with God's Word and with our love to overcome their sin. But nowhere is taught in Scripture that we should be in approval of believers who are seeking to justify their sin in this life. Where is the line drawn? Should we let practicing axe murdering rapists who say they believe in Jesus into our weekly fellowship? Would it really change anything if they justified doing these sins on occasion?


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[stuart lawrence]

Flee Jason. He accuses others of excusing sins, yet he believes he will be ok because he only commits what he terms: little sins. So who is excusing sin?
Jason quotes: if you love me obey my Commandments.
Part of Jason's law of righteousness is obeying each and every literal command of Christ. Yet he himself does not even try and obey them all, while he insists you must to be righteous.
Those who do not practice what they preach/ demand of others what they do not demand of themselves will never understand the truth of the true message contained in the letter. They didn't in Jesus day and they cannot now

 

[1stcenturylady]

1st Century Lady:

When you have the time, please read my previous post to you so as to be fair in looking at all the available information presented to you.

Thank you so much, and may God bless you.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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Yes, I will...tomorrow. Good night.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Flee Jason. He accuses others of excusing sins, yet he believes he will be ok because he only commits what he terms: little sins. So who is excusing sin?
Jason quotes: if you love me obey my Commandments.
Part of Jason's law of righteousness is obeying g each and every literal command if Christ. Yet he himself does not even try and obey them all, while he insists you must to be righteous.
Those who do not practice what they preach/ demand of others what they do not demand if themselves will never understand the truth if the true message contained in the letter. They didn't in Jesus day and they cannot now

Sorry. I am not going anywhere.
In 1 John 5:16-17 it says that there are sins unto death and sins not unto death.
I did not write this in God's Word. The Lord our God did that.
1 John 5:16-17 is clearly dealing with spiritual death and not physical death because verse 12 is clearly dealing with spiritual life. For he that has the Son has life (spiritual life) and he that does not have the Son, does not have life (no spiritual life). The rest of John's epistle speaks in a similar way. 1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 4:8 says, "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." 1 John 2:4 says, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." The contrast through the whole of epistle of John is spiritual life with spiritual death. Besides, everybody dies physically regardless of whether they are a believer or an unbeliever.

Also, 1 Peter 3:21 basically is saying that disobeying the command of baptism is not a salvation issue. So this would clearly be a sin not unto spiritual death (even though John was speaking on context to confessed sin vs. unconfessed sin in 1 John 5).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I will...tomorrow. Good night.

Thank you so much, 1st Century Lady.
May God bless you.


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[stuart lawrence]

I would add. Those who Insist a law of righteousness exists for the believer, whilst they themselves do not even try and obey all the commands they insist this includes, constantly break the second most important commandment. There is no live for your neighbour in such an approach. and the people guilty of this in Jesus day also neglected the love of God( luke11:42)
They were proud oeople, and Jesus reserved his harshest words for them. They could reel off the letter of scripture endlessly, but were blind to the true message contained in that letter

 

[stuart lawrence]

Sorry. I am not going anywhere.
In 1 John 5:16-17 it says that there are sins unto death and sins not unto death.
I did not write this in God's Word. The Lord our God did that.
1 John 5:16-17 is clearly dealing with spiritual death and not physical death because verse 12 is clearly dealing with spiritual life. For he that has the Son has life (spiritual life) and he that does not have the Son, does not have life (no spiritual life). The rest of John's epistle speaks in a similar way. 1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 4:8 says, "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." 1 John 2:4 says, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." The contrast through the whole of epistle of John is spiritual life with spiritual death. Besides, everybody dies physically regardless of whether they are a believer or an unbeliever.

Also, 1 Peter 3:21 basically is saying that disobeying the command of baptism is not a salvation issue. So this would clearly be a sin not unto spiritual death (even though John was speaking on context to confessed sin vs. unconfessed sin in 1 John 5).


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I havent even read the above Jason( only the beginning). I won't go anywhere either.
I will just continue us to point out, those who do not practice what they preach/ demand of others never know the truth of the message

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again, the law of righteousness is the Old Law and not New Covenant Law and or all law.
This is evident in the fact that Paul speaks against circumcision
(See Romans 3:1 and Galatians 5:2).


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[Bible Highlighter]

I havent even read the above Jason( only the beginning). I won't go anywhere either.
I will just continue us to point out, those who do not practice what they preach/ demand of others never know the truth of the message

Again, you are not God to know my life or the lives of all believers who believe in a similar way as I do (in accepting what the Scriptures plainly say).


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