• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    Do you have a scripture for that?
     
  2. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    If we( WE/ Christians) claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in use
    I john1:8

    Anyone who claims to be without sin/says they live a sinless life is deceived
     
  3. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    I'm sure you've read my response to 1 John 1:8 a number of times.
     
  4. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    Anyone can distort the plain words, it happens all the time.
     
  5. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    James tells us to confess our sins one to another.
    Who did James write to, Christians or atheists?
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    He was writing to Christians who do not have faith enough to believe for healing. Their unbelief was the sin to be confessed.
     
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    Right, and some even take verses out of context.
     
  8. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    I don't think so.

    If you want to claim sinlessness, you have to perfectly obey the active law/ Commandments, all of them.

    You cannot even obey them all 99 percent of the time. You have to perfectly obey them.

    A man mightily filled with the Holy Spirit wrote:
    The letter( of the law) kills
     
  9. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    Right, but the Spirit gives life. I walk after the Spirit.
     
  10. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    Absolutely
     
  11. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    We've had this conversation before.
    Are you really saying you perfectly, without one slip love all those you come into contact with, including those who hate, malign, persecute and lie about you?
    I don't think you do. Not perfectly without one slip.
    Now you know that is the command, so you cannot sin in ignorance of it can you
     
  12. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    Be angry and sin not.

    Gotta run for now
     
  13. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    At least you didn't fib!
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,155
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hi Stuart, so great to meet you. Here is another way of looking at it from God's Word.......

    "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20)

    "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4)

    If there is no Law, there is NO knowledge of sin, If there is no knowledge of sin then how do we know we are sinners? If we have no knowledge of sin then we have no need of a Savior. If we have no Savior then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation then we are lost.

    "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Romans 2:12)

    Hope this is helpful.

    God bless you
     
  15. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    Hi

    Law exists, and through it we become conscious of sin. But it is not a law of righteousness for the believer.

    The core terms of the new covenant sum it up well:

    This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
    I will write my laws in their minds
    And place them on their hearts
    Then he adds
    Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
    Heb10:16&17
     
  16. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    Christ didn't come to abolish the law.

    Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS for everyone who believeth
    Rom10:4
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,155
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hi Stuart,

    Not many people realize that everything in the New Testament comes from the Old Testament in God's Word.

    "All of our righteousness is as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6) and we are all sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:23) but the Law of God (the 10 commandments) is our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:24) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (Galatians 3:25).

    Why? Because the Law of God which is the great standard of righteousness shows as that we are all sinners and the wages of sin is death. It also points us to Jesus as God's great gift and the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (Romans 6:23; John 1:29) It is here kneeling in Faith in the promises of God's Words at the foot of the Cross that we are forgiven and cleansed from our sins as we believe Gods Word (1 John 1:9). This is the beginning of the new covenant promise....

    "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." (Hebrews 8:10-12; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

    To be under the Law means to be under it's condemnation and be found guilty of breaking the Law because of sin. The new covenant is the Work of God the circumcision of the Heart (Roman 2:28-29)
    That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:21).

    God's people now follow Jesus because they have been Born of God through the operation of God. They now keep God's Law because they love God. This is why it is written...

    "O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day" (Psalms 119:97)
    "I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love." (Psalms 119:113)
    "I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love." (Psalms 119:163
    "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing30 shall offend them." (Psa 119:16)

    What is righteousness?

    "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness." (Psalms 119:172) Unrighteousness is sin.

    Being Born again?

    "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

    "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

    "We know that whosoever is born of God sins not; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not." (1 John 5:18)

    This is why Jesus says.....If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

    "He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4)

    The new covenant changes the heart so that we follow Jesus now because we love Him. His laws are to be written in our hearts as we have complete dependence and faith in the Word of God to do what it says it will do. Now we keep God's commandments because we love God and our neighbor.... on these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40).

    If we are knowingly sinning then this is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

    "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 2:1)

    Hope this is helpful.

    God bless you all
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  18. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

    836
    +356
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    (Titus 3:3-8)....[/QUOTE]
    3 "For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
    Notice the theme here Jason, it's about hate. As a Christian we love our Neighbor as ourselves. God desires mercy, the same mercy He has shown unto us.

    4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    Have to say, you really read into that.
    This says God loves us and has shown kindness toward us by sending His Son.

    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    You have added the word initial. The Scripture is plain, it is not by our works or our righteousness that we are saved. It is by God's mercy that we are saved. It is God that washes us clean, we are renewed by the giving of the Holy Spirit. We are born again, under grace. We are no longer under the Law, we are under the Grace Of God. You are right, it is a one time event, a Christian now lives by the Spirit of God. Under the Grace of God.

    6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    Go back to verse 5, what is shed on us through Jesus Christ our Saviour? God's Mercy! We are renewed by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit sanctifies us.

    7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
    We are justified by God's Grace, not our works, not our righteousness just as verse 5 says. It is God's mercy upon us when we put our trust in Christ. Christ is our hope. The only hope we have.

    It all follows the same theme:
    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."
    Jesus tells us what the good work is:
    John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    God has sent His Son, Jesus of Nazareth. Our Lord, Our Savior, Our God!

    As John says, We obey His Commandments. Love God, Love our Neighbor. We show the fruits of the Spirit:love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    James was definitely not talking about the Law, right before he says faith without works is dead he says thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. He than admonishes those that are keeping the Law. He says if you offend in one point you are guilty of all.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  19. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

    836
    +356
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Jason, with all my heart I plead with you.

    You testifies against yourself. For you put a yoke on others that you yourself are not able to bare.
    The Bible testifies against you. It says man is wretched. It says our righteousness is as filthy rags. It says that the best state of man is nothing but vanity (sin).
    Life itself testifies against you. No man has ever achieved what you are espousing since the Cross of Christ. Name the sinless men since Christ's resurrection. If your doctrine is true, we should have a list of men that have reached perfection, men who sin not.

    Christ is the way, the truth, the life. He provides the covering, it is His righteousness that is imputed towards us. We cleave unto Christ!

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  20. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Christian
    Single
    Many Christians make the mistake of thinking they must look to the letter of commandnents/ law in order to please/ obey God. That is not to understand the message:
    But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code/ law
    Rim7:6

    The Christian looks to Christ, and trusts him to do in them what they cannot do for themselves, knowing he is their righteousness before the Father. The more they do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in their lives( gal5:22)
    The more the fruits of the Spirit grow in them, the more they live as God desires them to.
    And:
    Against such fruit there is no law. Gal5:23
    Why?
    Because. The fruits of the Spirit are the embodiment of how God wants you to live and are not in conflict with any of God's good and holy laws.

    Similarly, many make the mistake of saying you must look to each and every literal command of Christ and strive to obey them all. That would condemn each and every Christian I have ever met. For I have not met even one Christian who strives to even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ. Happily Paul shows us the truth:

    Carry each others burdens( love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal6:2

    It is so sad, that so many look to the letter that kills, rather than the Spirit who gives life
    God bless
     
Loading...