The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Dan61861]

This is a lie.

Please read 2 Corinthians 7:1.
It says we are to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit PERFECTING holiness in the fear of God. Now, if you were to go to 1 John 2:5, it says: "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."

So you have to keep His Word so as to perfect the love of God.
You are to cleanse yourself from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit PERFECTING holiness in the fear of God. 1 John 2:5 is the solution of how "perfect love" cast out fear. It is by keeping His Word.

1 John 2:4 says he that says he knows Him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.


...

Nope

Titus 3:6-7
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

God cleanses us!

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

Don't forget the word says to get angry but sin not. There is anger that is not sin. It is righteous indignation. Jesus certainly became angry many times, but did not sin.

You do know who Jesus was predominantly angry at?

My conscience would not allow me to excuse myself every time I got angry by believing it was always righteous anger

 

[1stcenturylady]

If I Had not spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now, they have no excuse for their sin and in being in denial of this, that they are all sinners in need of a savior, and not one is exempt, except Christ himself... The ones who had many chances to accept the truth of this, but would not, no matter how many chances they got, those ones were children of his enemy...

The tax collectors and the harlots are going in before you...

They should know their sin and level of depravity, especially in to today's day and age by now...

God Bless!

What are you quoting?

 

[1stcenturylady]

You do know who Jesus was predominantly angry at?

My conscience would not allow me to excuse myself every time I got angry by believing it was always righteous anger

I think you probably know the difference.

Gotta run

 

[stuart lawrence]

I think you probably know the difference.

Gotta run

Yep. I get angry at times with the type of people Jesus got angry with. And I mainly get angry with them because of the harm they can do the sincere who believe them. That is righteous anger.
But I wouldn't claim every time. I get angry it is righteous anger. If I claimed that my deceitful heart would hold sway. More blessed to be honest, even if it is painful at times

 

[Neogaia777]

What are you quoting?

John 15:22, John 8:44, Matthew 21:31...

 

[stuart lawrence]

I mean. If I never committed sin I would no longer need a saviour. But I do

 

[Neogaia777]

John 15:22, John 8:44, Matthew 21:31...

In John 8:44, Jesus says this to them, after they had just lied and said, "They did not know" about John, and then lied about lying, but Jesus knew there thoughts, they were lying hypocrites and would not even ever acknowledge that, no matter what... Stubborn, stiff-necked... So Jesus says this to them in John 8:44...

 

[Neogaia777]

I mean. If I never committed sin I would no longer need a saviour. But I do

I have need of repentance throughout my life maybe, to have need of a savior, what's it like to not repent ever anymore...? To have "no need" of repentance...? (Luke 15:7)

 

[Neogaia777]

.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I have need of repentance throughout my life maybe, to have need of a savior, what's it like to not repent ever anymore...? To have "no need" of repentance...? (Luke 15:7)

The only way you can truthfully claim never to commit sin is if you are in ignorance of God's laws. But as they are written on your mind and placed on your heart, surely what is in your mind, you in your mind must know

 

[Neogaia777]

The only way you can truthfully claim never to commit sin is if you are in ignorance of God's laws. But as they are written on your mind and placed on your heart, surely what is in your mind, you in your mind must know

Yeah...?

That's the end of the old covenant though, and the beginning of a new one, and that's the good news, the gospel...

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nope

Titus 3:6-7
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

God cleanses us!

In Christ
Daniel

Hi Daniel,

I don't think anyone here is saying that we are saved by our own works and no one would disagree with that scripture you quoted as we are all sinners in need of salvation but salvation is from sin not in sin. When we have complete dependence and faith in His Word to do what it says it will do in our lives Jesus can work in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). The evidence of Faith is that we follow what Jesus says in His Word. This is what James was talking about when he says Faith without works is dead. This kind of faith if it does not have works is not the Faith of Jesus. (James 2:17)

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

 

[Dan61861]

Hi Daniel,

I don't think anyone here is saying that we are saved by our own works and no one would disagree with that scripture you quoted as we are all sinners in need of salvation but salvation is from sin not in sin. When we have complete dependence and faith in His Word to do what it says it will do in our lives Jesus can work in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). The evidence of Faith is that we follow what Jesus says in His Word. This is what James was talking about when he says Faith without works is dead. This kind of faith if it does not have works is not the Faith of Jesus. (James 2:17)

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

My friend, Christ defeated sin not us. Jesus came as our Redeemer. He is the only one that is sinless. Christ died for us while we were YET sinners. No one denies that we should not sin, God forbid any of us do. The question being posed is how we gain righteousness. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags. We do not gain righteousness by not sinning. We gain righteousness by having faith in Christ.

The only way a man can be clean is by God cleansing us, washing us white as snow. It is all about God's tender mercy on man. God is glorified in His mercy towards us. May God alone be magnified. reread Titus again, contemplate on it, pray on it.

It is all about God, not us. It is all about Christ and Him crucified.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[1stcenturylady]

I have need of repentance throughout my life maybe, to have need of a savior, what's it like to not repent ever anymore...? To have "no need" of repentance...? (Luke 15:7)

Sometimes repentance is to walk away at the first sign of a temptation BEFORE committing sin, and then having to turn from it. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nope

Titus 3:6-7
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

God cleanses us!

In Christ
Daniel

What you fail to mention is the other parts of the passage that says,

3 "For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."
(Titus 3:3-8).

Let me unpack this for you.

Verse 3 says that we WERE (past tense) disobedient and foolish serving lusts and pleasures.
Verse 4 talks about initial salvation because it is saying how the love of the savior appeared towards man. This is Jesus's appearance 2,000 years ago. When Jesus appeared His sacrifice and resurrection is able to make man into a right relationship with God by redeeming Him of his past sin through Jesus.
Verse 5 is saying that this intial salvation is not by works of righteousness by which we have done because it was according to His mercy He saved us (a one time past event by accepting Christ) and by the washing and regeneration of the Holy Ghost. The washing and regeneration of the Holy Ghost is a one time event here.
Verse 6 says that God shed the Holy Spirit upon us abundantly through Jesus christ our Savior. So if the Spirit is shed upon us abundantly, then the fruits of the Spirit and not the fruits of the devil will be evident in our lives.
Verse 7 says that we are justified by His grace we SHOULD (which is a possibility) be heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Verse 8 says that they that believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. Why do they have to be careful in maintaining good works?

James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).



...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

My friend, Christ defeated sin not us. Jesus came as our Redeemer. He is the only one that is sinless. Christ died for us while we were YET sinners. No one denies that we should not sin, God forbid any of us do. The question being posed is how we gain righteousness. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags. We do not gain righteousness by not sinning. We gain righteousness by having faith in Christ.

The only way a man can be clean is by God cleansing us, washing us white as snow. It is all about God's tender mercy on man. God is glorified in His mercy towards us. May God alone be magnified. reread Titus again, contemplate on it, pray on it.

It is all about God, not us. It is all about Christ and Him crucified.

In Christ
Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the message but I do not think you understood my last post. As I am not saying anything against what you are saying above. You may need to re-read what I said earlier and re-think your interpretation of what the scriptures are saying I would imagine.

God bless

 

[Bible Highlighter]

False accusation, see, if you were honest you'd know that everybody is hypocritical,

Sorry, Jesus changes lives for the better and not for the worse.
You are going off of your sight and not by faith in what God's Word says.
Jesus can transform a person's life.

compared to God most especially, but you won't face the truth, instead you take offense to it acting like I was being accusatory, when I was just being honest and telling the truth...

You preach "keep the commandments", do you keep the commandments...?

Yes. I keep God's commands in the New Testament.
If I fall short, I ask for God's grace.
But I do not expect to sin or look to sin as if it was a guarantee.
I strive to walk more and more in God's good ways every day and expect to never sin again by God's power. I believe in the Lord and the power of His might.
I press on to be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.
What Matthew 5:48 means to you is just gobbley gook non sense.
Mature? What does that even mean? Sin less? That does not sound like maturity to me.
The Father is perfect because He is holy and sinless.
The Father is not perfect because He has matured.

There are two groups of people, ones who had sins, some big, some small, but all acknowledged their sin and felt sorrow and were sorry over and about it, with God all the time, those were Jesus friends, then there were the others who refused to see their sin, and had the thought that they aren't like one of those people, those dirty rotten, nasty, sinners, I'm not like them...

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt...

The tax collector's and harlots are going in ahead of you...

Nowhere am I seeking to think that I am better than a believer who struggles with sin. The parable of the Tax Collector is an example about how the Pharisee did not humble himself before God. He did not repent or cry out to God of his own sins to begin with and though he was perfect without God's grace. Nowhere am I saying that we are perfect without God's grace. A person can get right with God right here and right now by God's grace by calling out to the Lord to forgive them of their sins and by believing Jesus died in their place and that He rose 3 days later on their behalf. The Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee is not a story about Sanctification or living holy. It is about Justification and getting one's heart right with God initially. It is about seeking to overcome sin by crying out to God for forgiveness. For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

I mean, how do you think you get Christ's sacrifice imputed to you?

It is in 1 John 1:7.
If we walk in the light as Christ as in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

But if we say we sin all the time or that we can sin and still be saved, how we walking in the light then?
1 John 2:4 says that he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and truth is not in him.



...

 

[stuart lawrence]

You see, grace states:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace.
Rom6:14

Now if Paul teaches victory over sin by dying to a law of righteousness, why in the world would any true Christian object to that? Victory over sin is being preached. So why does this message offend?
Only one reason I can think of:

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law.........

Phil3:9

 

[stuart lawrence]

You see, whatever empty words people use. Paul preached victory over sin by dying to a law of righteousness.
Yet people object, and there can only be one reason they do object.
they are not willing to accept the message, because they want a righteousness of their own. They want to claim at least some of the credit to enter heaven. It's the sin of pride.

People can make statements saying it is all if what God does in them, but they have to claim God could only do this because they let him. And mostly it is just empty statements anyways. They prove that by objecting to the message
It's still the sin of pride.
I repeat, to object to a message that preaches victory over sin shows where a person's true heart lies