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Featured The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Deuteronomy 6:4-6 New King James Version (NKJV)

    4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

    6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.



    Deuteronomy 10:12-13New King James Version (NKJV)

    12 “And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep the commandments of the Lord and His statutes which I command you today for your good?



    Deuteronomy 11:13-14New King James Version (NKJV)

    13 ‘And it shall be that if you earnestly obey My commandments which I command you today, to love the Lord your God and serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, 14 then I will give you the rain for your land in its season, the early rain and the latter rain, that you may gather in your grain, your new wine, and your oil.



    James 5:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

    7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.



    Deuteronomy 30:6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)

    6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.



    Matthew 22:37-38 New King James Version (NKJV)

    37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”



    2 Corinthians 13:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

    14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.



    Ephesians 3New King James Version (NKJV)

    14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.



    Hebrews 8:7-11New King James Version (NKJV)

    Laws of God Written on Our Hearts

    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.



    Romans 7:5-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

    The Law of Sin and Death

    5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire.



    Romans 6:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Now We Are Dead to Sin

    1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.



    Romans 8:1-9 New King James Version (NKJV)

    The Law of the Spirit

    8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.


    John 20:28-30New King James Version (NKJV)

    28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


    1 John 3:18-23 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Commandments of the New Covenant

    18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
     
  2. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    Personally I believe it is Christ that is written in our hearts, He dwells in our hearts. The Holy Spirit has been given to us, sealing us to the day of redemption. He directs our ways, convicts us of sin. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  3. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    What "true spirit" would that be Daniel?
    What "true nature" would that be Daniel?
    Can you answer?
    I am curious about the "true spirit" and "true nature" of your friend.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  4. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    I am not upset. Just setting your misconception straight.
    Hold a conversation? Who needs to hold a conversation here?
    stuart is doing just fine at speaking for himself and me and others.

    I do, thank you.

    nah, I prefer the warm SONshine.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  5. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone(TC) but on tablets of human hearts
    2cor3:3
     
  6. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, the above shows sadly the pointlessness of anything worthwhile being achieved in debate with most on websites such as these. You were clearly shown, and had explained in detail that nine of the TC as written are placed in the heart of the believer. Yet you simply ignore that spiritual truth and carry on reciting scripture you don't understand I am afraid.
    You quote rom7:5-8 as the law of sin and death, and the fact all manner of concupiscence was aroused in paul by the commandment: Thou shalt not covet when he lived under that law( KJV) Absolutely true. And it is absolutely true the TC were the law of sin and death.
    But it is only a law of sin and death if that law can condemn you. It is only a law of sin and death if you have righteousness of observing it!. Remove a law of righteousness and you remove the law of sin and death. And the power of sin is in the law of righteousness, not the law itself!
    The power of sin to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul the pharisee was because he trusted in obeying the letter of the law to attain heaven.
    I'm sorry, but it is alarming your lack of understanding concerning this subject.
    Jesus did not come to abolish the TC. He came to abolish a law of righteousness. How?
    Because Jesus died for our sins. He died for our transgressions of the law. No more law of righteousness. The power of sin is removed. The law itself is not removed!!!!!

    Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS( not full stop) to everyone who believeth rom10:4

    You die to a righteousness of observing the law. You don't die to knowing you shouldn't steal, kill, murder, commit adultery etc.
    But as I said. Your post shows the futility of worthwhile debate mostly. For you were clearly shown the TC must be on the heart of the believer. Yet you just ignore that truth and carry on and on.
    You in reality live under the law of sin and death. for to you, if you commit sin you are in grave danger of the fires if hell. SBC says you cannot be born again if you commit sin, so he, as you lives under the law of sin and death. Perfectly observe the law/ don't commit sin or you are condemned.
    But you are both blinded to seeing the simple truth
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  7. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    As under the OC the entire law hung on two commandnents, so it is the same under the NC. No change there!
    But though the law hung on two commandnents under the OC, far more than two Commandments existed.
    It is the same under the NC. Though the law hangs on two Commandments, far more than two Commandments exist
     
  8. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Do not think that i have come to abolish the law or the prohets I did not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
    Matt5:17

    This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord.
    I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts.
    Then he adds
    Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
    Heb10:16&17

    The law did not get abolished!
    It got transferred from an external law written on tablets if stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts.2 cor3:3
    The law of sin and death got abolished, for Jesus died for your sins/ transgressions of the law.
    Hence, your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
    God will not abolish the fact he wants you to love him with all your heart, body soul mind and strength. God will not abolish the fact he does not want you to steal, lie, kill, commit adultery, covet etc.
    But he did remove a law of righteousness/ the law of sin and death, for you have a saviour from your sins
     
  9. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I get concerned when you disagree with me, for i know you know much of spiritual truth. If you still disagree with me after I have elaborated on a previous post, I guess I will just have to live with it lol.
    The law is placed in the heart of the believer and through it we become conscious of sin. The Christian is a work in progress all their life, called to live an evermore holy life. As a work in progress they are not sinless, as we agree. In a previous post I wrote when we sin our consciences are seered for we go against what is in our hearts. I added the word wilfull after consideration for i may have misled with what I meant.
    As long as we follow after this work in progress, by following after the Spirit concerning it, our consciences are not seered every time we fail to be perfect in the flesh. Absolutely not, we would be in anguish if that was the case.. But it is possible to step outside of that work in progress, not impossible.
    IE
    A married man is in this work of progress. He is coming ever closer to God and living an ever more holy life by following after the Spirit in the truth of the message. No seering conscience due to his imperfections. Then one day he meets a married woman and sleeps with her. To me he has now stepped outside of the work in progress and committed what I would term wilfull sin. Now his conscience is seered for he has wilfully transgressed what is in his heart. That to me is very different from following the work in progress but being imperfect in the flesh
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  10. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    I do see it a little different. I have come to believe every man has the law written on his heart. We see evidence of this throughout time and the world. Most countries, most lands have laws similar (murder, lying, stealing, adultery) to God's law.

    As Paul said, a gentile that has not the law does by nature the the things contained in the law, these, having not the law are a law unto themselves. I also believe the Holy Spirit witnesses to each and every individual.

    Christ is the law, He is the fulfillment of the law. So, I come to conclude that it is Christ that is placed into our hearts.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  11. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Once again stuart - that is another LIE.
    I said no such thing!
     
  12. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    stuart ~

    you are again speaking your own words, then ranting on in accusations against your own words.


    If you are without a friend or relative to assist you, I would be glad to get you some professional help.
     
  13. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    When people preach: if you commit any sin you cannot be born again/ saved, they are guilty of believing as the Pharisees of Jesus day did. As sin is transgression if the law, they are really preaching: faultlessly observe the law of you will be condemned.
    The Pharisees who preached this in Jesus day neglected the love of God( luke11:42) for there is no love, mercy or compassion in such a message. Indeed, no loving parent would treat their child so cruelly if they transgressed their rules. But some today proclaim this warped gospel message. And as did the Pharisees, they even quote the letter of scripture to do it.
    Jesus said of such people.
    They were hypocrites
    They were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean in the Inside.
    They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
    They cleaned the outside if the cup, but not the inside.
    Prostitutes and tax collectors would enter heaven ahead of them
    They neglected the love of God, and their neighbour. For they crushed their neighbour with demands they did not themselves attain to.
    Likewise, people today who say if you commit sin you cannot be born again sin daily themselves, as is evident to see, even on these websites.
    What applied to the Pharisees then, applies to everyone now, who, in reality preaches the same message they did 2000 years ago
     
  14. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Why does this sound kind?
     
  15. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    And this one doesn't?
     
  16. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Because the truth is painful to be confronted with when you have stated opinions that contradict it
     
  17. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    You responded with agreement, and then disagreement to the SAME post???
     
  18. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Please ellucidate
     
  19. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    If you mean I agreed the TC were the law of sin and death, absolutely.
    But they can ONLY be the law of sin and death if a righteousness of observing those laws exist. Remove a righteousness of observing those laws and they cease to be laws of sin and death don't they.
    You are an intelligent woman. It is not hard to understand
     
  20. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    What you don't understand is the law aroused sin in us. But through Christ we are dead to sin. Why because he has made us new creatures through the Holy Spirit. Being dead to sin is WHY we are freed from the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ is our new nature that is NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, IF the Spirit is in us, for the flesh cannot please God.

    Thou shalt not kill? Love prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not steal? Self-control prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not commit adultery? Faithfulness prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not covet? Peace and contentment prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not lie? Kindness prevents that in your new nature. Honor your parents? Longsuffering and gentleness takes care of them for as long as they live. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ? Joy unspeakable!
     
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